Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Jumbo have loved their multiple leader thing to death, I think it's very weird if Roglic can't get a protected spot if he wants one.

Yep. this is the same team that started the Tour with 3 GC leaders when it was clear that Rog was miles better than the other two. I think he deserves a protected spot given what he's had to put up with for all these years .

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So Primoz for Giro-Vuelta double? Would be nice if he pulled if off but Giro itself is a great goal as well, (atm Remco is probably considering Tour of Norway instead). As for the Tour, no Roglic means no options to checkmate Pogacar (like at Galibier). It will be mano a mano between the two mutants.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Shame that this guy will probably retire without a TDF win.

It's the Tour, unless you're the best (or maybe second-best) GC rider of your generation your window of opportunity is inevitably going to be limited to years between generations like 2019 and years where the dominant forces crash out like 2014. Roglic wasn't ready in 2018, would have had a shot in 2019 had he started, blew his golden opportunity in 2020, and after that the window closed because Pogacar and then also Vingegaard simply became too strong. Even if he had started (and stayed on his bike) next year, he would have needed some fairly particular circumstances to pull it off.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

It's the Tour, unless you're the best (or maybe second-best) GC rider of your generation your window of opportunity is inevitably going to be limited to years between generations like 2019 and years where the dominant forces crash out like 2014. Roglic wasn't ready in 2018, would have had a shot in 2019 had he started, blew his golden opportunity in 2020, and after that the window closed because Pogacar and then also Vingegaard simply became too strong. Even if he had started (and stayed on his bike) next year, he would have needed some fairly particular circumstances to pull it off.

Roglic has been the strongest 2019 - 2022.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Quite susprising, he didn´t sound convinced for the Giro in recent interviews. Also I read that Jumbo though that the Tour this years suit him great (I agree despite TT thing). Also I am not conviced about Jumbo preparations for Italy, they always screw up (and moreover Primoz is better in summer weather than Giro typical wetaher) and they need to do all good, Remco is not a joke as opponent.

 

[Lequack]

It's the Tour, unless you're the best (or maybe second-best) GC rider of your generation your window of opportunity is inevitably going to be limited to years between generations like 2019 and years where the dominant forces crash out like 2014. Roglic wasn't ready in 2018, would have had a shot in 2019 had he started, blew his golden opportunity in 2020, and after that the window closed because Pogacar and then also Vingegaard simply became too strong. Even if he had started (and stayed on his bike) next year, he would have needed some fairly particular circumstances to pull it off.

And as soon as he would show any weakness he would be relegated to a domestique like last year. I'd rather see him race for himself in the Giro.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Jumbo have loved their multiple leader thing to death, I think it's very weird if Roglic can't get a protected spot if he wants one.

Maybe this is a shift in priorities. They got their Tour, maybe they're no longer as obsessed about absolutely maximizing Vingegaards chance to win another, especially after he was simply stronger than Pogacar on the climbs this year. They were also expressing an interest in winning the Giro before coming out with the schedules.

I don't think Roglic was really playing media games either. Just a few weak statements to wait for the scheduling announcement. He was clear about wanting to give the Giro a shot but not being in a rush as he thinks he has a number of good years left.

I don't really doubt he can be ready by the Giro, considering he's training now.

For me the biggest surprise is actually not going Giro/Tour but now probably going Giro/Vuelta. But that might have been Roglic personal preference.

Vingo was not "simply" stronger than Pogacar in climbs whatsoeve.r He won the Tour thanks to team's depth and strategy and Pogi's underestimating their strength.

I don't know why Roglic won't go to the Tour. I have already written how he has a once in a life-time chance of winning both Giro and Tour. And then he can retire already being in the pantheon of cycling gods.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

And as soon as he would show any weakness he would be relegated to a domestique like last year. I'd rather see him race for himself in the Giro.

I won't be so quick to assume that Kelderman will only race the Giro to support Rogla. I mean, J-V turned Laporte into a certified beast.

 

[Andy schleck]

Even if fully recovered, this will be a harder GT to win for him than any of his Vueltas and arguably even the 2020 Tour. Evenepoel being there means he will lose time to his biggest competitor in the TTs for once and I'm not sure the brutal mountain stages that characterise this year's route are ideal for him either. Either way, this Giro field is shaping up nicely, especially compared to this year's edition.

I don't think a healthy roglic being at his best, will lose a lot of time to remco on the TTs. We are talking of a olympic itt winner. He just lost 48 s to remco on this vuelta 2022 in a TT of 30 km, when he wasn't at his top shape, and with some health problems. The preparation for the vuelta wasn't good, and he wasn't so distant of remco during the vuelta. We could not forget that remco prepared very well this vuelta, unlike roglic.

I think remco and roglic are the two main favourites. I think it's 50%/50% of chances for the two. There's no main favorite between the two.

 

[Mayomaniac]

And here was I thinking that Jumbo would just go with the Wilco-Foss combo for the Giro.
A bit of a surprise considering his recent statements. Wilco and Foss are a decent supporting cast for him, Affini will be there for the flat stages, Tratnik will probably also be there. Maybe also Dennis and the team looks fine.

 

[Andy schleck]

Wow, no Tour for Rogla. That;s harsh. This is basically the team ****ing him over (yet again).

He didn't want to target the 2023 Giro, either . He's made that perfectly clear.

He could do giro and the tour. He can go as a second leader to the tour.

So Primoz for Giro-Vuelta double? Would be nice if he pulled if off but Giro itself is a great goal as well, (atm Remco is probably considering Tour of Norway instead). As for the Tour, no Roglic means no options to checkmate Pogacar (like at Galibier). It will be mano a mano between the two mutants.

Except that stage, it was a mano a mano between pogacar and vingegaard.

 

[Rackham]

It's fine by me.

I've already made my opinions on the 'cohabitation' in the TdF with Vingegaard & WvA known again, again & again. The Jumbo Tour team is way too scattergun in its approach (targeting everything, basically) & the protection just wasn't there in 2022. I won't rehash 2021 either but once again that fateful Monday stage 3 featured WvA going solo for the stage win even after Gesink had his DNF (on the same stage) & Tony Martin was injured, thus leaving Rog way more exposed than he should have been.

So now we get some different action, different scenery & a nice little rematch against Evenepoel (should be fun). I'm also of the opinion Jumbo would probably have preferred to take Roglič to the TdF, i.e. maximizing their chances once again. I mean this choice basically makes a Granon repeat impossible & makes their team weaker in July.

It's also IMO a loss for the TdF as well. I mean when two of the biggest stars in cycling aren't there (Evenepoel & Rog), it'll be a little bit 'less' than what it could be in terms of a 'wow factor' startlist.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He could do giro and the tour. He can go as a second leader to the tour.
Except that stage, it was a mano a mano between pogacar and vingegaard.

Two stages that weren't mano a mano (Galibier + cobbles) basically decided the Tour. Sure, Vingegaard proved to be super strong on Hautacam as well (I never said that he's weaker than Pogacar BTW) but circumstances matter: in another scenario Pog wouldn't have been attacking like crazy on the penultimate climb/descent and wouldn't have fallen as well.

 

[Andy schleck]

Vingo was not "simply" stronger than Pogacar in climbs whatsoeve.r He won the Tour thanks to team's depth and strategy and Pogi's underestimating their strength.

I don't know why Roglic won't go to the Tour. I have already written how he has a once in a life-time chance of winning both Giro and Tour. And then he can retire already being in the pantheon of cycling gods.

No. We was better than pogi individually on the climbs. Even in the TT he was better than him, and there were no team to help on that effort.

He's not going for the tour, because now vingegaard is the main leader. They have a chance of winning giro and the tour with the two.

 

[Andy schleck]

Two stages that weren't mano a mano (Galibier + cobbles) basically decided the Tour. Sure, Vingegaard proved to be super strong on Hautacam as well (I never said that he's weaker than Pogacar BTW) but circumstances matter: in another scenario Pog wouldn't have been attacking like crazy on the penultimate climb/descent and wouldn't have fallen as well.

Vingegaard had mechanical issues on cobble's stages.
He was better than pogi in the climbs. Even without what happened on galibier, he would drop pogacar on granon. Pogacar in his career never did the numbers that vingegaard did on granon and hautacam's stage.
Even in the TT was better than pogacar.

But this is not about them. I think jumbo is doing the righ thing. They can win the giro and the tour. That's a great oportunity for that.

 

[Red Rick]

If Pogacar was as good as Vingegaard I think Vingegaard would have tired a lot more than he did sitting on Pogacars wheel.

 

[Elos Anjos]

This is an old question, but basically you're all wrong. Pogi never really (physically) recovered after blowing up in the Granon stage. It's not like next stages they were starting from scratch. Roglic bluff paid off, Pogi ate the decoy and WVA helped keeping Vingo's buffer. Mind that for me he won fair and square...a winner is not who presents the best numbers (such discussion about data is usually pointless).

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I feel conflicted. On the one hand, it is exciting that 2 of the top 4 GC riders will be in the Giro and 2 in the Tour, with some number of them likely in the Vuelta, compared to previous years in which the Giro was a dud.

On the other hand, it is a shame that Roglic isn't going for what is clearly his top goal, the Tour. It is further a shame that he could have breathed through his nose all the way to GC victory the last 3 years at the Giro and now has to go through Remco to win his first pink jersey. I would say he has done the exact opposite of maximizing his chances at GTs and is way better than his palmares will ultimately indicate.

I guess his best hopes for the Tour now are:

• Vingegaard crashes out, gets sick, prep doesn't go well, etc. with enough time for Roglic to change plans (not saying I want Vingo to have issues, to be clear)
• Vingegaard loses the Tour this year and Roglic does well in his targets and gets to prioritize the Tour in 2024

 

[theyoungest]

This is an old question, but basically you're all wrong. Pogi never really (physically) recovered after blowing up in the Granon stage. It's not like next stages they were starting from scratch. Roglic bluff paid off, Pogi ate the decoy and WVA helped keeping Vingo's buffer. Mind that for me he won fair and square...a winner is not who presents the best numbers (such discussion about data is usually pointless).

Jumbo discovered in 2021 that Pogacar has a weakness, long and hard climbs on altitude (remember Ventoux where Vingegaard dropped Pogi to everyone's surprise, including his team?) and they exploited that to the fullest in 2022. And that's no shame, you can't be the best at everything. People just refuse to accept that Pogacar can be beaten, even if it has already happened. Vingegaard doesn't need Roglic for that, he just needs the route to be hard enough.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I would dare anyone to say that Pogacar didn't loose also because of JVB's strategy and Roglic, but I'm too busy to argue with that.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar in his career never did the numbers that vingegaard did on granon and hautacam's stage.

Pogacar was doing an average of nearly 1800 m/h of VAM for almost an hour on Colombiere/Romme stage (only a few minutes of descent). Try to beat this.
As for the Tour 2022, Vinge could've dropped Pog on Granon as Pog doesn't seem to enjoy those big climbs at altitude anyway. The point is that they are generally close to each other and next year's Tour should be a great mano a mano.

 

[Andy schleck]

Jumbo discovered in 2021 that Pogacar has a weakness, long and hard climbs on altitude (remember Ventoux where Vingegaard dropped Pogi to everyone's surprise, including his team?) and they exploited that to the fullest in 2022. And that's no shame, you can't be the best at everything. People just refuse to accept that Pogacar can be beaten, even if it has already happened. Vingegaard doesn't need Roglic for that, he just needs the route to be hard enough.

“We figured out how to defeat Pogacar last year. We know his strengths and the areas in which Jonas is superior to him. We return to the Tour with a solid plan, and we believe that we can aim for yellow again with Jonas,” sport director Merijn Zeeman said.

 

[theyoungest]

I would dare anyone to say that Pogacar didn't loose also because of JVB's strategy and Roglic, but I'm too busy to argue with that.

I don't think anyone denies that, there have been however a lot of reductive comments saying Pogacar lost only due to Jumbo's tactics and that's simply not true. In the end Vingegaard was simply the strongest rider in the race. Now with Roglic not there people are saying again that Pogacar will have an easier time of it, and maybe he will, and maybe he'll even have the strongest team in the race... they probably should with their budget which is significantly higher than Jumbo's. Although again this year it seems UAE have only gotten more climbers, which is not what makes a great Tour team.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Making plans for future Grand Tours for Primoz is always a difficult issue. You make plans, and suddenly he crashes. Then it‘s DNF or DNS, short break, another training camp, and to the next race.

It‘s December 22, 2022. Giro is in May, Tour is in July of next year…

Primoz always was extremely strong in the Vuelta when he rode the Tour before. So for 2023, I think Jumbo just lets him start the Giro, to see what happens. The pressure is on Remco, anyways. The more stages Primoz rides in the Giro without crashing, the better it is for his shape. So he benefits for July and the Tour, and could be a late addition for Jumbo‘s Tour squad for 2023.

In case Primoz crashes out of the Giro, he‘ll probably go to the TdF, anyways. Like in previous years: crash out of the Tour, to be super in the Vuelta.

Racing in Italy, especially in the stage races, is super nervous. To be good in Italy, you need luck and bike handling skills. It‘s far from certain that Primoz will finish the next Giro.

And, IMHO, chances are not too bad that Primoz will start at next year‘s TdF.

But, good decision to go to the Giro now. That makes sense, and he can benefit from this in many ways.

 

[red_flanders]

Wow, no Tour for Rogla. That;s harsh. This is basically the team ****ing him over (yet again).

He didn't want to target the 2023 Giro, either . He's made that perfectly clear.

Why? If I ran that team that’s exactly how I’d deploy the riders. He ain’t gonna beat Vingo and he’s got a better shot by far of winning the Giro than anyone else on that team. They could win two GTs. They’ll likely podium both.

if he was the best rider they’d have him do the Tour. Hardly ***ing him over.