Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[johnymax]

Another fantastic performance. He is sitting where I (and many others) thought he would after stage 9. Of course with Dumoulin out of the picture. Almost 2min ahead of the biggest GC rivals. Nibali defended himself really well and he should be happy with a 1:44 gap.

I keep hearing from everyone how Roglic will fade in the next days because he's in peak shape from February. But was he really? Ok, he won UAE Tour and T-A, but time trials (TTT and ITT) had a big impact on GC results there. And he didn't look invincible. He looked vulnerable when A. Yates dropped him and even his ITT in Tirreno was his worst in the last 3 seasons (slightly but still). Then he went for one and a half month without racing and besides in the ITT he didn't look at top even in Romandie. There he reminded me of last year in Tour of Slovenia where he lost a stage to Uran at first but then goes to win the queen stage, ITT and overall. And still he was building form towards the 3rd week of the TdF where he was at his best in the mountains.

He had 20 racing days before the Giro. Less than Nibali and MAL, the same as Simon Yates. He hasn't raced a lot. And even though many say he's been flying so far this season (as the results suggest) I think they forget he was just as good last season. I'd say he was even better. His climbing in Pais Vasco and Romandie last year was better then anything he has shown so far this year IMO.

So if he really fades in the following 2 weeks it's because he isn't ready for the tough Giro 200+km hard multi-mountain stages yet and not because he is in top shape from february, because that's not the case.

And I do think he'll have to dig really deep on some stages. Especially on Mortirolo he'll have to defend himself from Nibali and the light weight climbers. That's the climb I fear the most for him. He'll lose some time there, I think that's a given. It's important to see how he'll recover from that. Kirby voice on: Let's wait and see.

 

[bajbar]

Re:

Another fantastic performance. He is sitting where I (and many others) thought he would after stage 9. Of course with Dumoulin out of the picture. Almost 2min ahead of the biggest GC rivals. Nibali defended himself really well and he should be happy with a 1:44 gap.

I keep hearing from everyone how Roglic will fade in the next days because he's in peak shape from February. But was he really? Ok, he won UAE Tour and T-A, but time trials (TTT and ITT) had a big impact on GC results there. And he didn't look invincible. He looked vulnerable when A. Yates dropped him and even his ITT in Tirreno was his worst in the last 3 seasons (slightly but still). Then he went for one and a half month without racing and besides in the ITT he didn't look at top even in Romandie. There he reminded me of last year in Tour of Slovenia where he lost a stage to Uran at first but then goes to win the queen stage, ITT and overall. And still he was building form towards the 3rd week of the TdF where he was at his best in the mountains.

He had 20 racing days before the Giro. Less than Nibali and MAL, the same as Simon Yates. He hasn't raced a lot. And even though many say he's been flying so far this season (as the results suggest) I think they forget he was just as good last season. I'd say he was even better. His climbing in Pais Vasco and Romandie last year was better then anything he has shown so far this year IMO.

So if he really fades in the following 2 weeks it's because he isn't ready for the tough Giro 200+km hard multi-mountain stages yet and not because he is in top shape from february, because that's not the case.

And I do think he'll have to dig really deep on some stages. Especially on Mortirolo he'll have to defend himself from Nibali and the light weight climbers. That's the climb I fear the most for him. He'll lose some time there, I think that's a given. It's important to see how he'll recover from that. Kirby voice on: Let's wait and see.

In before all mountain stages get hintered and shortened by snow. Imagine the outrage haha :surprised:
Though I would like to see him win a mountain stage or two... modesty, I know haha.

 

[del1962]

Overwhelming favourite for the Giro

 

[Red Rick]

So we have an overwhelming favorite who's never gotten a podium before when they haven't gone over 1000m in altitude a single time yet?

Seems about right

 

[Ripper]

Re:

Another fantastic performance. He is sitting where I (and many others) thought he would after stage 9. Of course with Dumoulin out of the picture. Almost 2min ahead of the biggest GC rivals. Nibali defended himself really well and he should be happy with a 1:44 gap.

I keep hearing from everyone how Roglic will fade in the next days because he's in peak shape from February. But was he really? Ok, he won UAE Tour and T-A, but time trials (TTT and ITT) had a big impact on GC results there. And he didn't look invincible. He looked vulnerable when A. Yates dropped him and even his ITT in Tirreno was his worst in the last 3 seasons (slightly but still). Then he went for one and a half month without racing and besides in the ITT he didn't look at top even in Romandie. There he reminded me of last year in Tour of Slovenia where he lost a stage to Uran at first but then goes to win the queen stage, ITT and overall. And still he was building form towards the 3rd week of the TdF where he was at his best in the mountains.

He had 20 racing days before the Giro. Less than Nibali and MAL, the same as Simon Yates. He hasn't raced a lot. And even though many say he's been flying so far this season (as the results suggest) I think they forget he was just as good last season. I'd say he was even better. His climbing in Pais Vasco and Romandie last year was better then anything he has shown so far this year IMO.

So if he really fades in the following 2 weeks it's because he isn't ready for the tough Giro 200+km hard multi-mountain stages yet and not because he is in top shape from february, because that's not the case.

And I do think he'll have to dig really deep on some stages. Especially on Mortirolo he'll have to defend himself from Nibali and the light weight climbers. That's the climb I fear the most for him. He'll lose some time there, I think that's a given. It's important to see how he'll recover from that. Kirby voice on: Let's wait and see.

If he does not fade at all, then he actually is the new Rominger

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

So we have an overwhelming favorite who's never gotten a podium before when they haven't gone over 1000m in altitude a single time yet?

Seems about right

Yeah, okay, he should be lucky if he got a top 10...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

So we have an overwhelming favorite who's never gotten a podium before when they haven't gone over 1000m in altitude a single time yet?

Seems about right

Yeah, okay, he should be lucky if he got a top 10...

12 stages of Voodoo remaining. He is the primary target.

 

[tobydawq]

Could that voodoo nonsense please be reserved for the Nibali thread?

It's a bit annoying that this so often is produced as an argument of why a rider would not win a Grand Tour (or anything for that matter).

 

[Red Rick]

Obviously I never said he'd be lucky to top 10.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Obviously I never said he'd be lucky to top 10.

No, but you did imply that you did not see him as the favourite which I just cannot understand.

Except that he is really going to get hell from the others and he does not exactly have a Sky train in front of him. With that said, I actually think he might not be the odds-on favourite to win, but should I pick one right now as the winner, it would definitely be him. He has two minutes or more on everyone! That is usually an eternity in cycling (not necessarily in the Giro, though).

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Obviously I never said he'd be lucky to top 10.

No, but you did imply that you did not see him as the favourite which I just cannot understand.

Except that he is really going to get hell from the others and he does not exactly have a Sky train in front of him. With that said, I actually think he might not be the odds-on favourite to win, but should I pick one right now as the winner, it would definitely be him. He has two minutes or more on everyone! That is usually an eternity in cycling (not necessarily in the Giro, though).

I didn't dispute he's a favorite.

I dispute he's overwhelmingly so.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Obviously I never said he'd be lucky to top 10.

No, but you did imply that you did not see him as the favourite which I just cannot understand.

Except that he is really going to get hell from the others and he does not exactly have a Sky train in front of him. With that said, I actually think he might not be the odds-on favourite to win, but should I pick one right now as the winner, it would definitely be him. He has two minutes or more on everyone! That is usually an eternity in cycling (not necessarily in the Giro, though).

Only 1:44 to a certain rider. Still a favorite but not overwhelming.

 

[del1962]

While he may have never got a GT Podium before his 4th at last years tour showed he can handle the big mountains and that was a stronger field he was against

 

[Lequack]

 

[HelloDolly]

So if I heard properly ES said today that Roglic goes for a run every morning before the stage ? WTF ???

I know he was a ski jumper but how come a SKI jumper is so good at an endurance sport
I mean you just jump..well run up to it and jump? Need to be fit alright but not 1000's km fit

His performance is exceptional so far
On the bike he reminds me a bit of Stephen Roche in 1987 .He won everything that year ..not a pure climber either but a superb TTer
Unfortunately for him he got injured after 1987 and never won big again

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You don't run up in ski jumping. Gravity does a lot of the work off the bench. But you do need to understand aero, have impeccable balance and serious nerves of steel, which are transferable, but certainly you'd expect the explosivity of ski jumping to translate much better to, say, match sprinting or the keirin than distance TTs or climbing.

However, it is worth noting that most ski jumpers, especially when they are younger, will also cross-country ski, which is a much more transferable skill to cycling (a number of people, such as Tara Whitten, Benjamí Prades (brother of Movistar's Edu) and Maria Canins, have come from cross-country skiing to cycling (similar to the large number of speed skaters, especially among the women's péloton), while many other cyclists over the years have used cross-country skiing as a key part of their winter training, examples in recent memory include Fabian Wegmann, Romain Bardet and Demi Vollering), because then if they don't make it as a ski jumper alone, they can potentially compete in Nordic Combined. There are photos online of various ski jump specialists like Severin Freund and Andi Wellinger doing cross-country on rollerskis or on snow. It may be that while it wasn't ever a genuine focus for him, that Roglič had at least some background in cross-country training.

But on the road, weirdly, he wasn't a TT star straight away, but he was a climber from the word go. He was top 20 on Vršič and in the Giro dell'Appennino in his first road year, and won a mountainous stage of the Tour of Azerbaijan and was 2nd in the big mountains of the Sibiu Tour, which actually meant a few people were tipping him for a step up by the time his decent results begin in 2015 - he was considered one of the favourites for the Tour de Slovénie because of peaking for it, and won Azerbaijan and podiumed Croatia too before joining Lotto-Jumbo. The problem was, very few of those south east Europe races he was doing had time trials, so it was only really when he won that Giro TT in 2016 that we even really thought of him against the clock because he was untested in the format; now as a major contender that's his main threat and he'll be expected to have to answer to the attacks in the mountains, despite that in the past he was combative enough himself.

 

[Squire]

Re:

[...] cyclists over the years have used cross-country skiing as a key part of their winter training, examples in recent memory include Fabian Wegmann, Romain Bardet and Demi Vollering)

How can you mention skiing cyclists without naming this skiing legend?

Also, Edvald Boasson Hagen puts on his skis every winter. Carl Fredrik Hagen of Lotto-Soudal even comes from cross-country skiing.

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

[...] cyclists over the years have used cross-country skiing as a key part of their winter training, examples in recent memory include Fabian Wegmann, Romain Bardet and Demi Vollering)

Also, Edvald Boasson Hagen puts on his skis every winter. Carl Fredrik Hagen of Lotto-Soudal even comes from cross-country skiing.

Both are from Norway. Everyone can ski there. :lol:

 

[johnymax]

Re:

So if I heard properly ES said today that Roglic goes for a run every morning before the stage ? WTF ???

I know he was a ski jumper but how come a SKI jumper is so good at an endurance sport
I mean you just jump..well run up to it and jump? Need to be fit alright but not 1000's km fit

His performance is exceptional so far
On the bike he reminds me a bit of Stephen Roche in 1987 .He won everything that year ..not a pure climber either but a superb TTer
Unfortunately for him he got injured after 1987 and never won big again

He is not a ski jumper anymore. It's not like he stopped with ski jumping last season and immediately reached this high level he is now. It's been 8 years now from the beginning of his transformation. Even longer if you consider he did amateur racing and duathlons even before quitting his career as a ski jumper. It's been a gradually and steady progression to reach the level he is now. People can choose the wrong sport in their lives. He's clearly a bigger talent for cycling and endurance sports than he was for ski jumping although he was regarded as a big talent there too, before his big crash. So I don't see why one thing excludes the other when one happened long time ago and with every passing season becomes less and less relevant.

There are some translatable strengths that remains as Libertine mentioned like aero position, flexibility, mental strength, fearlessness, light weight.

About running before every stage. I don't believe it. Maybe before some stages. Running before mountain stages wouldn't make sense. Where have you heard that? If Kirby said it then it's probably not true lol.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

So if I heard properly ES said today that Roglic goes for a run every morning before the stage ? WTF ???

I know he was a ski jumper but how come a SKI jumper is so good at an endurance sport
I mean you just jump..well run up to it and jump? Need to be fit alright but not 1000's km fit

His performance is exceptional so far
On the bike he reminds me a bit of Stephen Roche in 1987 .He won everything that year ..not a pure climber either but a superb TTer
Unfortunately for him he got injured after 1987 and never won big again

He is not a ski jumper anymore. It's not like he stopped with ski jumping last season and immediately reached this high level he is now. It's been 8 years now from the beginning of his transformation. Even longer if you consider he did amateur racing and duathlons even before quitting his career as a ski jumper. It's been a gradually and steady progression to reach the level he is now. People can choose the wrong sport in their lives. He's clearly a bigger talent for cycling and endurance sports than he was for ski jumping although he was regarded as a big talent there too, before his big crash. So I don't see why one thing excludes the other when one happened long time ago and with every passing season becomes less and less relevant.

There are some translatable strengths that remains as Libertine mentioned like aero position, flexibility, mental strength, fearlessness, light weight.

About running before every stage. I don't believe it. Maybe before some stages. Running before mountain stages wouldn't make sense. Where have you heard that? If Kirby said it then it's probably not true lol.

Except it was Rob Hatch who discussed Roglic's running.

 

[IndianCyclist]

His team is weaker than expected with De Plus gone. He would be under tremendous mental pressure due to the Slovenian Links questions considering he was in that team. Stage 12 exposed not only a team and physical weakness but also a departure from routine after the stage which may indicate a mental one. I think he may get cracked if not physically at least mentally.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If Dumoulin can win the Giro without a team so can Roglic. That's my point of view

 

[Red Rick]

I think they're vastly different riders

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

If Dumoulin can win the Giro without a team so can Roglic. That's my point of view

Think this Giro as more opportunities to abuse that fact. That and Dumoulin is more of a diesel engine

 

[johnymax]

Before the stage I was thinking there's no way he wins this Giro if he loses time to Nibali today. Well he didn't and that's good. But this stage showed me there are two better climbers in the same team than both of them and they aren't that far back with 2:00 and 2:40 down respectively. Landa can take a minute and a half on Roglič only on Mortirolo alone IMO. The good thing is that Mortirolo isn't a MTF.

The team is weak on the climbs as expected. I was hoping for Tolhoek and Kuss to be better. Especially the American is nonexistent. The riders for the flat have done their job properly.

Long and hard battle ahead. I have to say I'm quite pessimistic about his chances to take the overall win. I think this Giro is a little to hard for him. I hope I'm wrong though. He keeps surprising every year so I'd be happy to be surprised again