Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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topt said:
Pantani_lives said:
What bothers me about Roglic is his sudden change of racing attitude. He's normally a quite agressive rider who's not afraid to take initiative. Think of his two solo stage wins in the Tour. But now that there's a GC win at stake he suddenly turns into this ultranegative rider who refuses to take a lead in the final, even when good climbers are taking a lot of time back. I wonder if this was his own decision or if he was following tactical advice from his team directors.

He might still win this Giro if he can control Carapaz, but his chances are certainly diminished by this all too passive attitude.
He is doing what they are telling him over the radio. He could have caught Carapaz on the downhill but then he let it go
The Jumbo ds said he was frustrated at the fact he'd lost two minutes to carapaz. But i'm sure your insider knowledge is more legit
 
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roundabout said:
Red Rick said:
Even in the Pyrenees he had trouble sustaining his accelerations. He had trouble with the ITT due to a crash before the Tour, but I don't think he's made for the super long and super hard days.

I think we have to keep in mind for Mende that the peloton lost like 20 minutes to the break that day. They'd taken it super easy so they climbed it with very fresh legs. Roglic is an anaerobic beast but in classics the length of the race might be a problem for him. He's basically the polar opposite of Nibali.
Mr polar opposite who actually needs to make up time is hardly riding a more exciting race.

I'd look at the ridiculous pacing of the route instead with 9 potentially GC relevant stages in 11 days after only 2 in the first 12.
I think by polar opposite he was talking about rider strenghts not about their racing style.
 
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Pantani_lives said:
What bothers me about Roglic is his sudden change of racing attitude. He's normally a quite agressive rider who's not afraid to take initiative. Think of his two solo stage wins in the Tour. But now that there's a GC win at stake he suddenly turns into this ultranegative rider who refuses to take a lead in the final, even when good climbers are taking a lot of time back. I wonder if this was his own decision or if he was following tactical advice from his team directors.

He might still win this Giro if he can control Carapaz, but his chances are certainly diminished by this all too passive attitude.
I think most of his team might be down with something considering that De Plus left the race being sick.
 
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IndianCyclist said:
Pantani_lives said:
What bothers me about Roglic is his sudden change of racing attitude. He's normally a quite agressive rider who's not afraid to take initiative. Think of his two solo stage wins in the Tour. But now that there's a GC win at stake he suddenly turns into this ultranegative rider who refuses to take a lead in the final, even when good climbers are taking a lot of time back. I wonder if this was his own decision or if he was following tactical advice from his team directors.

He might still win this Giro if he can control Carapaz, but his chances are certainly diminished by this all too passive attitude.
I think most of his team might be down with something considering that De Plus left the race being sick.
I've been wondering about this, too. If it's a stomach bug, hopefully the coming rest day will help.
 
Giving away ~ 4 min to Carapaz in mindgames and losing 1 min in crash. It is obvious which is worse. He could have easily kept the gap to total of 1min and he would still be leading by 1 min. Either he or his team is to blame. It is bad to gift time to contenders like that
 
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Valv.Piti said:
This is Evans 2010, apart from the fact that he doesnt go super hard and then blows himself completely up trying to follow attacks. He has very similar characteristics as well
Yeah instead of expending energy yesterday by catching Carapaz and not giving him 2 minutes, he had to expend even more energy today. That's why you don't just let your opponents gain time, even if you are super confident, because anything can happen, just like today. Or the famous Tom D poop incident.
 
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IndianCyclist said:
Giving away ~ 4 min to Carapaz in mindgames and losing 1 min in crash. It is obvious which is worse. He could have easily kept the gap to total of 1min and he would still be leading by 1 min. Either he or his team is to blame. It is bad to gift time to contenders like that
I don't know about the 4 minute give-away, but he definitely could've shed less time, and gifting time to close competitors is never smart, whatever some analists seem to think.
 
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Jagartrott said:
IndianCyclist said:
Giving away ~ 4 min to Carapaz in mindgames and losing 1 min in crash. It is obvious which is worse. He could have easily kept the gap to total of 1min and he would still be leading by 1 min. Either he or his team is to blame. It is bad to gift time to contenders like that
I don't know about the 4 minute give-away, but he definitely could've shed less time, and gifting time to close competitors is never smart, whatever some analists seem to think.
He clearly wasn't feeling well this last three days... if he really was on the limit then working too hard with Nibali could mean Nibali would attack him and gain time in the last kilometers of the stage - meaning he would lose time not only to Carapaz, but Nibali as well. I am sure that if he felt good he would be on the wheel of just about anyone who attacked without a seconf thought. In fact he would probably attack himself.

Now the only hope is that the form picks up in the third week, because today there were clearly two guys stronger then him uphill, even though he managed it quite well on a teammates bike. But not being the strongest climber won't work too well with 4 mountain stages left.
 
I think he has been riding very defensively and hopefully for him, calculated. Unfortunate today. Not gonna make a big deal about it.

Almost everyone else has but in a big effort to gain back the time these days. Question is if he has much left in the tank or not.

I still think he has a very good chance to win this.
 
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Salvarani said:
I think he has been riding very defensively and hopefully for him, calculated. Unfortunate today. Not gonna make a big deal about it.

Almost everyone else has but in a big effort to gain back the time these days. Question is if he has much left in the tank or not.

I still think he has a very good chance to win this.
Yep - just follow Carapaz, do a good TT and it's his. Dumoulin would be doing the same in his position so no complaints about tactics.
 
Roglic has never been able to follow Carapaz in this Giro when he attacked. Probably on Friday it was partly tactics, but yesterday and today, he just wasn't strong enough. So 'just follow Carapaz' - really?

Bookies have Carapaz now as the favourite, and with reason. Bookies are far from stupid.
 
Okay, so Roglic's lost time today (stage 15) was caused essentially by the bike-change screwup (which was not his fault) and the crash (bleep happens). On his own bike, and without the crash, he probably rides in with the Nibali/Carapaz group. He still has a good chance at a podium place. But I think if he wants to win the Giro, he cannot have any bad days in week 3 and is also going to need to have at least one good day where he pulls back some time (even if just a few seconds) on Carapaz. It's not likely, perhaps, but a Giro winner needs to be strong in week 3. That said, I think Primoz has ridden a courageous (though not mistake-free) Giro so far, considering some of the factors beyond his control. I think he can take 30 seconds from Carapaz in the final time trial (which has a hill), but probably not 47 seconds. Carapaz can do a decent time trial, maybe just a little slower than Nibali but better than Landa or Lopez.

I would like to see what Roglic can do in a grand tour with Gesink and De Plus (and maybe Kruijswijk, if available) as support riders.
 
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glassmoon said:
bajbar said:
luckyboy said:
So apparently the Jumbo-Visma car was stopped to have a pee when Roglic had his mechanical? (a broken derailleur)
Imagine if Tolhoek wasn't close by... he would lose minutes before those bafoons showed up...
Yep, ridiculous stuff. Looks like his team isn't just weak as **** but kinda stupid also...
Tolhoek wasn't even in his group but in the group behind. Primoz had to wait for him. The situation really is ridiculous.

But Roglic remained calm after the stage and was actually pretty happy he lost only 40s. He said it could have been a lot worse with everything that happened. Also he's not worried about the injuries. It's not that bad, just a couple of bruises and scratches mostly on his face but luckily he doesn't pedal with his face ,he says. The Giro is not over yet. Everything suggests he'll lose time on Mortirolo but with this guy you never know. I actually believe he'll step up in the third week.
 
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johnymax said:
glassmoon said:
bajbar said:
luckyboy said:
So apparently the Jumbo-Visma car was stopped to have a pee when Roglic had his mechanical? (a broken derailleur)
Imagine if Tolhoek wasn't close by... he would lose minutes before those bafoons showed up...
Yep, ridiculous stuff. Looks like his team isn't just weak as **** but kinda stupid also...
Tolhoek wasn't even in his group but in the group behind. Primoz had to wait for him. The situation really is ridiculous.

But Roglic remained calm after the stage and was actually pretty happy he lost only 40s. He said it could have been a lot worse with everything that happened. Also he's not worried about the injuries. It's not that bad, just a couple of bruises and scratches mostly on his face but luckily he doesn't pedal with his face ,he says. The Giro is not over yet. Everything suggests he'll lose time on Mortirolo but with this guy you never know. I actually believe he'll step up in the third week.
I personally think, he'll more likely decline in the third week... seeing how strong he was weeks before Giro already :Question:
 
It does't look good but I'm still holding a bit reserve a different Roglic might show up in week 3.
He seems to have held back in most of the stages except yesterday, when he was forced to ride hard to limit the damage after errors.

I think he was planning to go all out in week 3. So until I see a week 3 mt stage, I'm not writing him off yet
 
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
It does't look good but I'm still holding a bit reserve a different Roglic might show up in week 3.
He seems to have held back in most of the stages except yesterday, when he was forced to ride hard to limit the damage after errors.

I think he was planning to go all out in week 3. So until I see a week 3 mt stage, I'm not writing him off yet
So he gave 2 minutes for free to Carapaz blindly assuming he could handle him on the Mortirolo?

I'm 99% sure he wasn almost completely dead on the SC and didn't work cause he couldn't and if he got attacked again he could lose time to everyone.
 
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
It does't look good but I'm still holding a bit reserve a different Roglic might show up in week 3.
He seems to have held back in most of the stages except yesterday, when he was forced to ride hard to limit the damage after errors.

I think he was planning to go all out in week 3. So until I see a week 3 mt stage, I'm not writing him off yet
Hopefully we see the TDF 2018 third week attacking Roglic. He's got less to lose now that he has to gain time on Carapaz.
 

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