Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Faserr]

He really wants to beat Kuss according to his interviews. He is just racing for himself. He can do this, but its selfish I think.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It wasn't a small performance today. He demolished the Angliru.

I mean sure Landa did fine but look at the gaps back to the rest... i.e. everyone was sure Vingegaard would wreck this climb (me included tbh) but now that he didn't, all they can resort to is saying he could have done if he'd wanted to.

No, Rog won this one fair & square. Especially after yesterday. It was the 'big' performance some had talked about, i.e. going all out on one stage to get maximum time differences.

He'll lose the Vuelta because the team favored Vingegaard. But as for the rest, his level is there. And still some will squirm & tell us he can't ever win the TdF.

Yes, he did what we kinda expected - saved his bullets for today and performed very well. I just mean that gaps between JV guys were small - Kuss defended himself surprisingly well. I thought he would lose more when he was dropped.

 

[svit]

Roglič was more than 1:30 behind Kuss at the beginning of the stage. Kuss can afford to lose half a minute or minute to Roglic.

Vingegaard should pace Kuss, if they are for real into "sammen winnen"...

 

[Rackham]

He really wants to beat Kuss according to his interviews. He is just racing for himself. He can do this, but its selfish I think.

I think after yesterday it's pretty clear there's straight-up Darwinism going on at Jumbo Visma. It's survival of the fittest. This was no longer about Kuss, the Vuelta or anything in this race, it was just Roglič showing Jumbo he can match their golden child on the hardest MTF in pro cycling.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Roglic just showed that he is true force of the universe on par with Vingnegaard and Pogacar, and can match any of them and beat them.

 

[The Clogger]

He really wants to beat Kuss according to his interviews. He is just racing for himself. He can do this, but its selfish I think.

Agreed, a very selfish mentality from Roglic. Attacking the red jersey when Jumbo Visma was 3 riders alone in front. This guy doesnt care about Kuss or his chance to win the Vuelta. Luckily for both Roglic and Kuss, Vingegaard is the opposition of Roglic. He gifted the stage to Roglic and he is also talking about gifting the Vuelta to Kuss. A person like Roglic would never do that.

 

[Rackham]

Roglic just showed that he is true force of the universe on par with Vingnegaard and Pogacar, and can match any of them and beat them.

Yep. The salty tears from some disbelievers is quite funny (as are the sudden allusions to the clinical stuff I'm seeing on Twitter & other forums, which really just comes down to spitting the dummy out because the script was different than anticipated).

Rog is Rog. He's one of the best & on his day he can match anyone. Today he showed that.

Agreed, a very selfish mentality from Roglic. Attacking the red jersey when Jumbo Visma was 3 riders alone in front. This guy doesnt care about Kuss or his chance to win the Vuelta. Luckily for both Roglic and Kuss, Vingegaard is the opposition of Roglic. He gifted the stage to Roglic and he is also talking about gifting the Vuelta to Kuss. A person like Roglic would never do that.

You mean Vingegaard who attacked his teammates yesterday & put a minute into them after launching a surprise attack? lol

Vinge could have paced Kuss behind Roglič if he cared so much but he didn't. Why? Because there was a battle of wills (or egos, i.e. call it whatever you want) going on versus Rog.

Today wasn't about the Vuelta, it was about Rog versus Vinge (& his DS's).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Great performance today by Primoz. I can admit when I was wrong, but this was superb today. I wonder how much Jonas had left if any?

Great stage win.

 

[Oldermanish]

Agreed, a very selfish mentality from Roglic. Attacking the red jersey when Jumbo Visma was 3 riders alone in front. This guy doesnt care about Kuss or his chance to win the Vuelta. Luckily for both Roglic and Kuss, Vingegaard is the opposition of Roglic. He gifted the stage to Roglic and he is also talking about gifting the Vuelta to Kuss. A person like Roglic would never do that.

This is laughable. Roglic has already sat to allow Jonas to win two stages. Today Roglic set tempo that dropped everyone except Kuss and Vingegaard. He did it seated most of the time while Jonas had to work to keep contact. The steepness and tight turns don't allow for much looking around and when Sepp lost contact, he was on the radio to the DS. Roglic continued and Jonas didn't budge when he knew Kuss was gapped after taking the cheap shot, off script win yesterday. JV's management needs to sort out what the real plan is each day but don't owe the public a statement...because they don't. If they win their 3rd GT and pack the podium it'll be amazing but all 3 need to finish.
There is another angle: in spite of what Roglic has accomplished this season he may have no clear team support for the Tour. I can't imagine how motivating that would be.
All of that said; the willful compromise of Kuss by both of them betrays many sportsman's ethics. It doesn't change how cycling has been contested, however.

 

[Andy schleck]

Ah right so Vingegaard could have just gone faster today but chose not to. Okay.

I don't think vingegaard could have gone more faster today, because he is not in tour de france shape.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

It's pretty clear that Vingegaard is just stronger than Roglic. Today he had to practically beg Roglic to attack. I know it's hard to admit you're wrong, but you're quite obviously wrong about the guy.

It's pretty clear, aka trust me bro

 

[theyoungest]

Yep. The salty tears from some disbelievers is quite funny (as are the sudden allusions to the clinical stuff I'm seeing on Twitter & other forums, which really just comes down to spitting the dummy out because the script was different than anticipated).

Unless it's Vingegaard who wins, then it's you who's off to the Clinic.

Do you know what is disappointing? The absolute inability of most people to look beyond the needs and wants of their own favourite rider. Now both Roglic and Vingegaard are getting absolutely destroyed on social media for riding away from Kuss. It's a f.cking sport, all of them want to win, and as long as it's someone from their own team, it doesn't matter who it is.

I'd love for Kuss to win, but it would be a gift, pure and simple. He's not the strongest rider in the race, far from it. Why should Vingegaard give him a GT win? A stage win, okay. But a GT win? That's disrespectful to the Vuelta.

 

[cen]

Roglic confirmed in the interview that they are allowed to do whatever at the finish of the stages, mano a mano.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I wonder how it would have gone, if he was in this form last year.

 

[acm]

Agreed, a very selfish mentality from Roglic. Attacking the red jersey when Jumbo Visma was 3 riders alone in front. This guy doesnt care about Kuss or his chance to win the Vuelta. Luckily for both Roglic and Kuss, Vingegaard is the opposition of Roglic. He gifted the stage to Roglic and he is also talking about gifting the Vuelta to Kuss. A person like Roglic would never do that.

Lolololol

 

[Rackham]

Unless it's Vingegaard who wins, then it's you who's off to the Clinic.

Do you know what is disappointing? The absolute inability of most people to look beyond the needs and wants of their own favourite rider. Now both Roglic and Vingegaard are getting absolutely destroyed on social media for riding away from Kuss. It's a f.cking sport, all of them want to win, and as long as it's someone from their own team, it doesn't matter who it is.

I'd love for Kuss to win, but it would be a gift, pure and simple. He's not the strongest rider in the race, far from it. Why should Vingegaard give him a GT win? A stage win, okay. But a GT win? That's disrespectful to the Vuelta.

The most common defense of Vingegaard going around social media last night (among the criticism) was people saying he was the strongest in the race, therefor it was only natural for him to win - irrespective of the harm done to Kuss.

At the end of the day, Roglič showed he's also his equal. How many people truly expected Rog to win on the Angliru? i.e. how many people thought Rog had today's performance in his legs? Not many, certainly not among people most outspoken (like influencers) on what Rog should or shouldn't do in this race.

So what's left here? Vingegaard started the 'war' this week, Rog merely jumped through the open window into a battle someone else started. Vinge will win the Vuelta if this fight continues tomorrow & Saturday, but Rog got what he came for, i.e. he showed the world he can match Vinge on a climb like the Angliru.

And the only answer to that fact I've seen are people claiming Vinge could have gone faster but didn't for some unknown reason. I call B.S. on that one.

 

[Andy schleck]

The most common defense of Vingegaard going around social media last night (among the criticism) was people saying he was the strongest in the race, therefor it was only natural for him to win - irrespective of the harm done to Kuss.

At the end of the day, Roglič showed he's also his equal. How many people truly expected Rog to win on the Angliru? i.e. how many people thought Rog had today's performance in his legs? Not many, certainly not among people most outspoken (like influencers) on what Rog should or shouldn't do in this race.

So what's left here? Vingegaard started the 'war' this week, Rog merely jumped through the open window into a battle someone else started. Vinge will win the Vuelta if this fight continues tomorrow & Saturday, but Rog got what he came for, i.e. he showed the world he can match Vinge on a climb like the Angliru.

And the only answer to that fact I've seen are people claiming Vinge could have gone faster but didn't for some unknown reason. I call B.S. on that one.

Roglic showed that he is still the third best climber in the world, but of course he is not on pogacar's climbing level and even less on Vingegaard's climbing level. Vingegaard is not in his tour france shape, don't forget about that.

 

[Gigs_98]

I feel like this is the kind of race where we will learn about all the spicy intrigue behind the scenes in a podcast 5 years from now. There is no way everyone at JV is happy with how this is going.

 

[theyoungest]

The most common defense of Vingegaard going around social media last night (among the criticism) was people saying he was the strongest in the race, therefor it was only natural for him to win - irrespective of the harm done to Kuss.

At the end of the day, Roglič showed he's also his equal. How many people truly expected Rog to win on the Angliru? i.e. how many people thought Rog had today's performance in his legs? Not many, certainly not among people most outspoken (like influencers) on what Rog should or shouldn't do in this race.

So what's left here? Vingegaard started the 'war' this week, Rog merely jumped through the open window into a battle someone else started. Vinge will win the Vuelta if this fight continues tomorrow & Saturday, but Rog got what he came for, i.e. he showed the world he can match Vinge on a climb like the Angliru.

And the only answer to that fact I've seen are people claiming Vinge could have gone faster but didn't for some unknown reason. I call B.S. on that one.

Roglic was good, but at no point did Vingegaard look like he was really in trouble. He has a more laboring style than Roglic, but that doesn't mean he's really suffering. However, he finds himself in the difficult situation that nearly every cycling fan seems to hate him because he's busy riding his loyal domestique out of the jersey. And there was already no love lost between Vingegaard and most of the cycling aficionados, there's just something about the guy that makes him less likeable than the other stars of cycling. I think today he didn't want to take any pulls, to show the world "really guys, I'm only just following". His post stage interview shows he's very aware of what the cycling world thinks of him, like he almost has to say sorry for not hitting the brakes.

Of course it's just speculation but to me it seemed like he had to bide his time, waiting for Roglic to attack. At some point he even seemed to say it to him, "if you have the legs, go!" or something like that. And then it was Kuss who closed the gap on Roglic, not Vingegaard. Kuss more or less signed his own death warrant with that move, because it showed to the other two: okay, we're really free to race. And even then Vingegaard didn't pull.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The most common defense of Vingegaard going around social media last night (among the criticism) was people saying he was the strongest in the race, therefor it was only natural for him to win - irrespective of the harm done to Kuss.

At the end of the day, Roglič showed he's also his equal. How many people truly expected Rog to win on the Angliru? i.e. how many people thought Rog had today's performance in his legs? Not many, certainly not among people most outspoken (like influencers) on what Rog should or shouldn't do in this race.

So what's left here? Vingegaard started the 'war' this week, Rog merely jumped through the open window into a battle someone else started. Vinge will win the Vuelta if this fight continues tomorrow & Saturday, but Rog got what he came for, i.e. he showed the world he can match Vinge on a climb like the Angliru.

And the only answer to that fact I've seen are people claiming Vinge could have gone faster but didn't for some unknown reason. I call B.S. on that one.

I expected Roglič to be able to win today, if he was allowed to attack first, because I didn't think Vingegaard would take the win away from him if he got a gap. And that it was happened in the end.

You complained because some people said Roglič was weak yesterday. Today he definitely wasn't, but since he didn't drop Vingegaard, you can't really call it BS either, if people believes he was still the strongest of the two. That doesn't mean Roglič wasn't the best today, but we just don't know for sure.

 

[markene2]

Agreed, a very selfish mentality from Roglic. Attacking the red jersey when Jumbo Visma was 3 riders alone in front. This guy doesnt care about Kuss or his chance to win the Vuelta. Luckily for both Roglic and Kuss, Vingegaard is the opposition of Roglic. He gifted the stage to Roglic and he is also talking about gifting the Vuelta to Kuss. A person like Roglic would never do that.

lol, talk about actions not matching words, Vingegaard has been mega agressive and is carving out time whenever he can on Kuss, he wants this Vuelta and you would be naive to think otherwise, all three of them want to win and will do whatever they can to get it.

 

[Bolder]

I feel like this is the kind of race where we will learn about all the spicy intrigue behind the pscenes in a podcast 5 years from now. There is no way everyone at JV is happy with how this is going.

There's almost no outcome that could make everybody happy. That was clear the moment Jumbo said Vingegaard was going to do the Vuelta. The situation with Kuss only made it worse.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Roglic is like Michael Myers, every time the majority (me included) thinks he’s done he comes back with a performance like this. Unfortunately he had one job and that was to finish ahead of Vinge on GC and drop him and besides his stomps he hasn’t done that. Despite having the talent to challenge at the Tour, Vinge will always be number 1 because his top form is so much higher. Sucks for him since without Vinge, Roglic wins outright and Kuss isn’t placed in this situation and vice versa. I said before the race it was going to be nothing but trouble for the two and it’s been like that. Next year will be very interesting for Jumbo between Vinge, Roglic, WVA, and potentially Kuss. Throw in the new talent they’re bringing in and it could be everyman for themselves.

 

[Rackham]

Roglic is like Michael Myers, every time the majority (me included) thinks he’s done he comes back with a performance like this. Unfortunately he had one job and that was to finish ahead of Vinge on GC and drop him and besides his stomps he hasn’t done that. Despite having the talent to challenge at the Tour, Vinge will always be number 1 because his top form is so much higher. Sucks for him since without Vinge, Roglic wins outright and Kuss isn’t placed in this situation and vice versa. I said before the race it was going to be nothing but trouble for the two and it’s been like that. Next year will be very interesting for Jumbo between Vinge, Roglic, WVA, and potentially Kuss. Throw in the new talent they’re bringing in and it could be everyman for themselves.

It's Lord of the Flies over at Jumbo. Pure dog eat dog savagery.

Takeaways: Rog had Vingegaard beaten fair & square in the ITT & on the punchy finishes. He also 'looked' better on Javalambre on stage 6 (i.e. something which some people attribute to Vingegaard today, aka the 'body language' superiority, so hey, I thought I'd mention that one).

He lost all his time on the Tourmalet (again, apparently due to team tactics dictating who could attack when) & yesterday, aka a total tactical screw-up from the team & his rivals which became the killer blow to Rog's GC hopes when UAE didn't chase Vinge.

I'm just happy Rog showed his strength & proved the eternal naysayers wrong. Again.

 

[bNator]

It's Lord of the Flies over at Jumbo. Pure dog eat dog savagery.

I really like your takes sometimes👍

I completely agree and could not have put it better. I said in another thread there’s an all-out war at TJV, started by Vingegaard and shocked as I was it‘s turning out this way, I for one expected Roglic’s move today. It was make or break for him and the only thing he could do, TBH. Else he can just go home.

I didn’t think he would succeed, though. Now looking at Vingegaard’s face today and knowing how much effort he put in previous days, I’m not that sure he’s got this in the bag anymore.

And btw, to all the spin doctors out there - this was Roglic adapting and reacting to *** Vingegaard invented. He has no moral obligation anymore to follow any kind of rules. Dog eat dog it is…