Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Oldermanish]

He was in a different league to everyone else in this race. I can't wait for the Ineos vs Jumbo rumble at the Tour next year.

Throw in some UAE youngsters and you've got a real street fight. Who could Astana add to MAL and Fugelsang that makes it an even better party?

 

[IndianCyclist]

He should have won 2 GTs this year but a weak team and tactical blunders in the Giro cost him. His team saved him the Vuelta though even when tactically he wasnt that astute.

 

[skippo12]

He should have won 2 GTs this year but a weak team and tactical blunders in the Giro cost him. His team saved him the Vuelta though even when tactically he wasnt that astute.

He couldn´t follow Nibali and Carapaz on the most difficult stages. I think the chances are higher that he finishes outside of the top 3 if the Gavia isn´t cancelled. The Vuelta was a better fit for him. Shorter climbs and no altitude.
I don´t know if his form was any worse in may considering that his TT performances were impressive but he simply lacked the engine on the longer climbs. The level of competition was better and his team was weaker. Maybe a better team could have helped him to limit the loses in the mountains but in this case I think Nibali is the more likely winner because he wouldn´t lose as much time in the early mountain stages as well.

 

[Blanco]

I have yet to congratulate Primož for this amazing victory. Now it's only one step left, Le Tour de France. He'll get there

With this result he is a strong candidate for Vélo d'Or. It's between him and Alaphilippe right now. Of course a lot of races left, but mainly Worlds and Lombardia will decide the winner of the award.

Well I guess it will be Alaphilippe, cause it is Velo d'Or...

 

[Red Rick]

Well I guess it will be Alaphilippe, cause it is Velo d'Or...

Either him, Roglic or Bernal.

 

[SafeBet]

I'd lean towards Roglic at the moment, but WC and Lombardia can still make a difference.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Don't count out VdP for Velo d' Or if he wins the worlds.

Regarding Roglic.. well, one of the best GC records over a whole season I've ever seen. Basically won every stage race this season he started, except the Giro, were he was 3rd.
Will be interesting next season to see what they do in the TDF with Dumoulin added

 

[KZD]

Don't count out VdP for Velo d' Or if he wins the worlds.

Regarding Roglic.. well, one of the best GC records over a whole season I've ever seen. Basically won every stage race this season he started, except the Giro, were he was 3rd.
Will be interesting next season to see what they do in the TDF with Dumoulin added

Is the Velo d'Or just for road riders or it also takes into account other disciplines?
If its the first option I don't think MVDP has more than a very slim chance even with the world title. He just raced too little on the road and failed to win a monument, despite winning several classics.

Between Roglic and Ala, I think the Frenchman has the upper hand for now because he is French. However things might change until the end of the season particularly if Roglic wins the Worlds TT (I have my doubts) and Ala fails in the road race.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

OK, so where does Roglic go from here? What's really interesting about him is that his upward progression is really linear. You can't yet point to a year, or even really a race, where he went backward.

Yeah, he's an interesting case. Ex-ski-jumper, who apparently bought his first bike at the age of 22. Compared to others, his mileage is much lower and he's yet to reach his full potential (in this sense he's more like a 24-25 yo cyclist). I think he's about to reach his peak level, probably next year. He's great at both TT and mountains so sky is the limit: Tour de France victory is a realistic goal for him.

 

[Red Rick]

If he'd peaked correctly for the Tour this year I think he probably wins it.

 

[Bolder]

If he'd peaked correctly for the Tour this year I think he probably wins it.

I'm a believer, but I have to disagree with you, although it could have been VERY close.

I just don't think Bernal and especially Thomas were really pushed that hard in the mountains despite Tibopino's strength in the Pyrenees. Ineos seemed to be hitting its stride in the Alps -- we'll never really know b/c of the truncated stages, but I think Bernal would have taken several more minutes from the field in the final two stages. I also think Tour stages are ridden harder than Giro/Vuelta stages.

If...and this is a big if...Kruisjwijk had agreed to be a super-dom rather than sacrifice his own ambitions, then we might have had a real dogfight. I'd have loved to see WVA shredding the peloton in the foothills...

 

[Red Rick]

I'm a believer, but I have to disagree with you, although it could have been VERY close.

I just don't think Bernal and especially Thomas were really pushed that hard in the mountains despite Tibopino's strength in the Pyrenees. Ineos seemed to be hitting its stride in the Alps -- we'll never really know b/c of the truncated stages, but I think Bernal would have taken several more minutes from the field in the final two stages. I also think Tour stages are ridden harder than Giro/Vuelta stages.

If...and this is a big if...Kruisjwijk had agreed to be a super-dom rather than sacrifice his own ambitions, then we might have had a real dogfight. I'd have loved to see WVA shredding the peloton in the foothills...

Thomas tried to get away and couldn't on the Galibier and Iseran. I don't think Bernal could go faster than he did on those climbs, and I don't buy that Roglic would climb worse than Kruijswijk. He was flying away from him in the 2018 Tour.

 

[Oldermanish]

Yeah, he's an interesting case. Ex-ski-jumper, who apparently bought his first bike at the age of 22. Compared to others, his mileage is much lower and he's yet to reach his full potential (in this sense he's more like a 24-25 yo cyclist). I think he's about to reach his peak level, probably next year. He's great at both TT and mountains so sky is the limit: Tour de France victory is a realistic goal for him.

He is young in wear and tear, for sure. If he has the motivation he can improve quite a bit tactically although he is probably at his limit for TT development for a GC rider. It's difficult to be good for 3 weeks and still be a peak performer for single-day races at the same time. I'd place his peak in his mid-thirties which, barring injury should give him a shot at a Tour win or more.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He is young in wear and tear, for sure. If he has the motivation he can improve quite a bit tactically although he is probably at his limit for TT development for a GC rider. It's difficult to be good for 3 weeks and still be a peak performer for single-day races at the same time. I'd place his peak in his mid-thirties which, barring injury should give him a shot at a Tour win or more.

Still it won't be easy despite Roglic's big potential. He'll face a fierce competition: both from the older generation (Dumoulin, Thomas, Froome?) and from the next generation (guys like Pogacar and Bernal could reach amazing level) not to mention some "medium-aged" cyclists (like Carapaz, Mas). Over the next few years I expect very high-quality in GTs.

 

[Bolder]

Thomas tried to get away and couldn't on the Galibier and Iseran. I don't think Bernal could go faster than he did on those climbs, and I don't buy that Roglic would climb worse than Kruijswijk. He was flying away from him in the 2018 Tour.

I think you're right about Roglic...but SK was really going well last July, best level since before he hit a snowbank...

It's interesting to speculate. I think the final order would have been Bernal then Roglic, assuming both had focused on the Tour.

Bottom line is next year's Tour should be fabulous.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think you're right about Roglic...but SK was really going well last July, best level since before he hit a snowbank...

It's interesting to speculate. I think the final order would have been Bernal then Roglic, assuming both had focused on the Tour.

Bottom line is next year's Tour should be fabulous.

It's good to speculate sometimes. Well, if all modern cyclists were racing last Tour in their top form I think it would be Froome ahead of Dumoulin. Still, these newer guys (Bernal, Roglic, Pogacar) would put up good fight with them. Obviously in the coming years their chances should increase (as they are on an upward curve).

 

[Oldermanish]

Still it won't be easy despite Roglic's big potential. He'll face a fierce competition: both from the older generation (Dumoulin, Thomas, Froome?) and from the next generation (guys like Pogacar and Bernal could reach amazing level) not to mention some "medium-aged" cyclists (like Carapaz, Mas). Over the next few years I expect very high-quality in GTs.

Yessir, the upcoming crop of riders will make racing very competitive and exciting for us. Team budgets and ability to lock down a group of contenders may play a big part in Roglic's opportunities; he's in a good spot now with Jumbo.

 

[Red Rick]

Strongly suspecting no TTT in next year's Tour.

 

[Lequack]

Strongly suspecting no TTT in next year's Tour.

It's an advantage for Jumbo Visma, if they don't crash that is.

 

[bajbar]

Strongly suspecting no TTT in next year's Tour.

Well, team Alaphillipe and team Pinot did rather well both in TTT and ITT this year. So it is not out of the question. But I do think two ITT's are more likely. I think they have lost hope in Bardet haha.

 

[Cookster15]

Two factors stopped Roglic winning the Giro:

1. Crash and poor bike change, even been given a poorly fitting bike to finish the stage.
2. He peaked too early and couldn't hold his form. Roglic was in huge form since early season, that wasn't sustainable. It was obvious watching the race Carapaz was climbing much more freely and less laboured. Roglic in the Vuelta was climbing like Carapaz in the Giro. This is the difference between a fresh rider and a rider who is fatigued and desperately trying to hold his form. I actually felt Roglic did well to salvage a podium considering these factors against him.

But whether he was good enough to win the Tour I doubt. I don't think Bernal was pushed. We will see in 2020. Plus who knows how good Pogachar might be by next year.

 

[Red Rick]

Two factors stopped Roglic winning the Giro:

1. Crash and poor bike change, even been given a poorly fitting bike to finish the stage.
2. He peaked too early and couldn't hold his form. Roglic was in huge form since early season, that wasn't sustainable. It was obvious watching the race Carapaz was climbing much more freely and less laboured. Roglic in the Vuelta was climbing like Carapaz in the Giro. This is the difference between a fresh rider and a rider who is fatigued and desperately trying to hold his form. I actually felt Roglic did well to salvage a podium considering these factors against him.

But whether he was good enough to win the Tour I doubt. I don't think Bernal was pushed. We will see in 2020. Plus who knows how good Pogachar might be by next year.

How was Bernal not pushed? He got dropped in the Vosgues and Pyrenees and was basically very lucky with how the cards fell in the Alps.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Compared to Giro, Roglič had much better team support and proper nutrition. On both races Roglič and his team still crashed a lot, though. This is therefore something that should be improved on TDF 2020.

The team is growing with Roglič and gaining much needed experience. That will hopefully lead to more stability and less crashes.

 

[Rollthedice]

Two factors stopped Roglic winning the Giro:

1. Crash and poor bike change, even been given a poorly fitting bike to finish the stage.
2. He peaked too early and couldn't hold his form. Roglic was in huge form since early season, that wasn't sustainable. It was obvious watching the race Carapaz was climbing much more freely and less laboured. Roglic in the Vuelta was climbing like Carapaz in the Giro. This is the difference between a fresh rider and a rider who is fatigued and desperately trying to hold his form. I actually felt Roglic did well to salvage a podium considering these factors against him.

But whether he was good enough to win the Tour I doubt. I don't think Bernal was pushed. We will see in 2020. Plus who knows how good Pogachar might be by next year.

The two factors stopping Roglic winning the Giro were Carapaz and Nibali. Apart from the TT he was humbled by Nibali uphill with roughly 3 minutes and by Carapaz with a whopping 6 minutes. I don't buy the peaking too early stuff, he's proven to be good in all the races but he wasn't good enough to win the Giro. The crash? Well if you want to follow Nibali downhill you gotta be careful. Ask Kruijswik.

 

[bajbar]

The two factors stopping Roglic winning the Giro were Carapaz and Nibali. Apart from the TT he was humbled by Nibali uphill with roughly 3 minutes and by Carapaz with a whopping 6 minutes. I don't buy the peaking too early stuff, he's proven to be good in all the races but he wasn't good enough to win the Giro. The crash? Well if you want to follow Nibali downhill you gotta be careful. Ask Kruijswik.

With Vuelta shape and team Primož wins the Giro. He would lose little to no time to Carapaz on the stage Richard won (the one where they gifted him two minutes by looking at each other), because at least two helpers woould be there working and would bring those 20 seconds back. And he would lose much less on the Mortirolo stage with two helpers pushing on the last climb (with this form he probably wouldn't get dropped in the first place). The point is, Rogla in Vuelta form would not be dropping 3 minutes to Nibali, much less 6 minutes to Carapaz.

He looked totaly spent there from the first mountain stage onward. He lost a whole lot of weight due to stomach issues. The clear sign of him being on the limit is when he starts showing teeth while climbing. Never saw that in the Vuelta. In the Giro he did it every single mountain stage. By the last stage he lloked like he came out of a concentration camp.

And considering the Tour. Kruiswijk was 1 and a half minute behind Bernal in the end. I think Roglič would get close (he would be at least a minute ahead of Steven in the ITT alone).