Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

Big four at the Tour 2024.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Big four at the Tour 2024.

Well, Vingegaard is probably the best if it’s about fishes.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Big four at the Tour 2024.

Who’s the fish and the skinny bear watching from the side?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Who’s the fish and the skinny bear watching from the side?

To be determined. Although, reading in between the lines, one could make some conclusions. For example, considering age, so long, and thanks for all the fish. That could indeed be it. Skinny one obviously being Jonas.

Who else could they be. And what is up with the bears? Considering they all shave.

 

[SHAD0W93]

To be determined. Although, reading in between the lines, one could make some conclusions. For example, considering age, so long, and thanks for all the fish. That could indeed be it. Skinny one obviously being Jonas.

Who else could they be. And what is up with the bears? Considering they all shave.

Should be hairless cats honestly if we want to be realistic.

 

[shadowrider]

New TT setup and position.

OK, that's an argument. But don't you think his opponents will do the same ?

 

[tobydawq]

To be determined. Although, reading in between the lines, one could make some conclusions. For example, considering age, so long, and thanks for all the fish. That could indeed be it. Skinny one obviously being Jonas.

Who else could they be. And what is up with the bears? Considering they all shave.

I think we need the season to start soon for the forum's collective sanity....

 

[repre]

Considering Jumbo Visma was arguably the best team in the peloton, for sure one could expect some hiccups in this regards. But if looking at the bigger picture, one can not escape seeing the elephant in the room. That is no amount of marginal gains would help Rogla at the Tour. Considering the team would race for Jonas.

The question is what chances are higher: Vingo's injury that would make Rogla leader for Jumbo's TDF squad and de-facto favourite for GC or him winning TDF with Bora. But i guess he chose the one he can control over the other he doesn't

 

[CyclistAbi]

The question is what chances are higher: Vingo's injury that would make Rogla leader for Jumbo's TDF squad and de-facto favourite for GC or him winning TDF with Bora. But i guess he chose the one he can control over the other he doesn't

In my honest opinion his chances with Bora are gazillion times better. Vuelta fully exposed in just how difficult situation Rogla was at JV. On top of that i feel that Roglič doesn't want to win the Tour against injured Jonas. He will likely even make sure Jonas doesn't fall of the bike or something like that. Having two to three Bora riders protecting him.

 

[joseph89]

OK, that's an argument. But don't you think his opponents will do the same ?

Definitely, but unless Cervelo release a new TT bike this year i can't see Jonas making anymore gains. As for Pog, not sure how much more marginal gains UAE can squeeze out of their setup. Roglic has more upside due to both Specialized and Redbull knowledge and resources.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And Roglič being a first class TTer helps too.

 

[Rackham]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k2QAPe6Heo

 

[Oldermanish]

If Jonas does another TT like this year, nobody will be close.

That was a tactical and athletic masterpiece. He took advantage of course strategy to gain that gap and would need similar conditions to win by that much. When a skinny climber beats WvA on every descent to that degree you know he was the best prepared.

 

[Oldermanish]

Considering Jumbo Visma was arguably the best team in the peloton, for sure one could expect some hiccups in this regards. But if looking at the bigger picture, one can not escape seeing the elephant in the room. That is no amount of marginal gains would help Rogla at the Tour. Considering the team would race for Jonas.

One marginal gain would be not crashing and getting injured. Pogacar suffered last year for a wrist. Roglic lost a season to shoulder reconstruction. It may be a bit like the NFL this year; the healthy will dominate.

 

[tobydawq]

One marginal gain would be not crashing and getting injured. Pogacar suffered last year for a wrist. Roglic lost a season to shoulder reconstruction. It may be a bit like the NFL this year; the healthy will dominate.

Yeah, what a season he lost. Only winning Giro, Tirreno, Catalunya, Emilia, Burgos, podium in Vuelta and Lombardia.

 

[Oldermanish]

That's a good take. Those Jumbo's millions don't go just for salaries and transfers and **** but to a scientific approach to training, nutrition, resting and the like.

Of course people will always attribute victories and defeats to a rider and not to his whole entourage. Roglic changing teams just shows his courage, he put his money where is mouth is. I doubt Froome would win half his palmares if he was in Movisitar.

How about Froome winning no Tours? He'd be fighting his own teammate for resources and tactical help. There's a reason Mateo Jorgenson spent a good chunk of his own money on coaching to improve. Now he's on JV where he can worry about that less and enjoy racing more, hopefully.

 

[how yes no?]

I hate it when idiots (or non-idiots repeating the idiotic actions) act all smart and talk about missing arguments of others while their perspective of reality is so utterly biased.
It's hard to provide arguments for self-evident truths, even mathematics does not go deeper than that.
And everything was already debated and the Vuelta and whole autumn of races were driven since the last Remco-Roglič debates.
People estimating Roglič peak performance based on the tour 2020, should go rewatch the dauphine 2020 (hint: he did not peak too early there), but who am I kidding, asking blind people to see.

 

[Froome]

That was a tactical and athletic masterpiece. He took advantage of course strategy to gain that gap and would need similar conditions to win by that much. When a skinny climber beats WvA on every descent to that degree you know he was the best prepared.

Why he can't have the same conditions in the last ITT of next year's Tour de france?

 

[Oldermanish]

Why he can't have the same conditions in the last ITT of next year's Tour de france?

I don't know the course but he railed the descents like Hirscher in a slalom to gain much of the time. He's clearly good at it and the ITT may not present the opportunity.

 

[Froome]

I don't know the course but he railed the descents like Hirscher in a slalom to gain much of the time. He's clearly good at it and the ITT may not present the opportunity.

He didn't won that much in the descents, if i'm not wrong he won 1 min and 15 seconds in the two climbs, but yeah, he did a good descent in the TT, he improved in that regard.

Next year's last TT is a bit similar like this year, but even more difficult.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Roglic, this year perfectly prepared for the Giro 2023, wouldn't have won that GT without the Covid-case of Evenepoel. Not only because Evenepoel had to abandon after destroying Roglic during the first stage (of course no guarantee Evenepoel wouldn't have had a bad day), but because at the end of the Giro Roglic could barely beat the old and worn out Thomas.

Recovering from shoulder surgery, bad crash on stage 13.

You always win or loose (a GT) with the legs and the head.
Roglic didn't have the legs for winning the Vuelta 2023. He was good, but not at toplevel (anymore, due to his age ?). That was obvious in the TT. The last week he did attack (against teamorders), but it just blew back after a few minutes. Without the "Kuss-present", Vingegaard would have won with minutes, even not being at a toplevel (after the Tour).

• Roglic is the one who made the race on stage 6 with a big attack that effectively out Remco out of the race; he put time on everyone but Vingegaard and Kuss (in the break) with an attack from ~6km out (not 500m); he seemed to be riding with Vingegaard, not trying to drop him
• Kuss won because he was allowed in that break in a tactic meant to benefit Roglic and Vingegaard; he was weaker in the ITT, Angliru, etc.
• Roglic was the strongest on stage 8, as evidenced by his victory
• Roglic was only :20 behind Remco in the ITT and beat Vingegard by :42 and Kuss by :53
• On the Tourmalet, Roglic played the good teammate to Binge and Kuss, sitting in the bunch to avoid dragging opponents back to them, but still finished in third, clear of all competitors
• On stage 16, Roglic again had to sit on until late for team tactics to avoid chasing down his own teammate for competitors’ benefit
• Stage 17, Roglic smashed but unclear who was stronger between he and Vingegaard
• Overall, he was clearly the strongest in the first half of the race and given the only true competitors were his teammate, that should have resulted in full support and a win, but he instead had the exact opposite of what you’d expect - despite being demonstrably the strongest in the first half of the race, team tactics benefited his teammates
• Side note: Roglic:Vingegaard on Angliru :: Roglic:Vingegaard on that Dauphine stage everyone is always talking about.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Recovering from shoulder surgery, bad crash on stage 13.

• Roglic is the one who made the race on stage 6 with a big attack that effectively out Remco out of the race; he put time on everyone but Vingegaard and Kuss (in the break) with an attack from ~6km out (not 500m); he seemed to be riding with Vingegaard, not trying to drop him

Evenepoel was still ahead of Roglic in GC after stage 6 and beat him in the ITT after that. Remco was out of the race on Tourmalet stage which was an entire week later.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Evenepoel was still ahead of Roglic in GC after stage 6 and beat him in the ITT after that. Remco was out of the race on Tourmalet stage which was an entire week later.

He knew after stage 6 what was coming, and his failure to smash Roglic in the ITT (people were talking about a minute, not :20, ahead of the stage) confirmed it for him. IMO, that’s why he collapsed so badly on the Tourmalet stage; he was already mentally defeated.

 

[Froome]

He knew after stage 6 what was coming, and his failure to smash Roglic in the ITT (people were talking about a minute, not :20, ahead of the stage) confirmed it for him. IMO, that’s why he collapsed so badly on the Tourmalet stage; he was already mentally defeated.

Remco did a bad TT. When guys like vlasov just lose 36 seconds in a TT to Remco...... then clearly Remco wasn't at his best, like he was in the TTs of the Giro. It was more demerit from remco.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Remco did a bad TT. When guys like vlasov just lose 36 seconds in a TT to Remco...... then clearly Remco wasn't at his best, like he was in the TTs of the Giro. It was more demerit from remco.

I’m not an expert so I’m likely missing something, but here is the comparison between Giro stage 1 and Vuelta stage 10. To me it seems more like Ganna and Roglic were better than in the Giro.

Giro

• Length: 19.6km
• Winning Time: 21:18
• Type: Flat
• Key contenders:
  • Remco - 1st, 55.2km/h
  • Ganna - 2nd, 54.2km/h
  • Roglic - 6th, 53.4km/h

Vuelta

• Length: 24.8km (~25% longer)
• Winning Time: 27:39
• Type: Flat
• Key contenders:
  • Ganna - 1st, 55.9km/h
  • Remco - 2nd, 55.4km/h
  • Roglic - 3rd, 54.8km/h