Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[SHAD0W93]

And he's been 'washed' (according to online narratives) since his knee problems early 2022 because we was 32 at the time. That's just how people think (& it's why people didn't totally see Andy Schleck's embarrassing career collapse coming either because he was "young"). In Rog's case he keeps on coming back and winning, proving the narratives and doubters wrong.

The people who didn’t see Schleck’s nonreturn to form didn’t see his work ethic. That crash, 2011 loss, and 2010 retroactive win finished his career. Roglic’s basically had this over multiple seasons and came back. Roglic has 100 times the mental and physical fortitude Schleck had.

 

[Red Rick]

The people who didn’t see Schleck’s nonreturn to form didn’t see his work ethic. That crash, 2011 loss, and 2010 retroactive win finished his career. Roglic’s basically had this over multiple seasons and came back. Roglic has 100% the mental and physical fortitude Schleck had.

I hope you mean 100x and not 100%.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So far i would say the ultimate moment of this race is Rogla standing there, Champs-Élysées, asked about his feelings. Rogla says, yeah, i would apologise to my team but i don't care.

Now back to reality, of course Rogla is in it for the win, otherwise he wouldn't be competing. Slowly some inroads will start to be made, towards achieving that goal.

 

[Rackham]

Vingegaard is not there for the taking lolwat.

Don't question my delusion. This is the TdF. Fantasies are a prerequisite.

In any case Rog beat him by 2 seconds on Wednesday (get in!!!) so the mission is on track.

But seriously, there's something wrong with Vingegaard and I'm calling it here irrespective of what Rog does. Something isn't right over at Visma.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But seriously, there's something wrong with Vingegaard and I'm calling it here irrespective of what Rog does. Something isn't right over at Visma.

Vingo was doing really well on the remaining stages so there's a possibility it was just a bad day. Sure, Pogi is the big favourite right now but Vingo is still a strong favourite to beat the rest by a considerable margin.

 

[Rackham]

Vingo was doing really well on the remaining stages so there's a possibility it was just a bad day. Sure, Pogi is the big favourite right now but Vingo is still a strong favourite to beat the rest by a considerable margin.

Well, I'm willing to go against the grain on the issue of Vinge's ITT performance because IMO the fact he did his worst ITT ever in the TdF is not innocent or abstract. It means something. Especially considering the context (literally his manager mouthing off her concerns in the media and throwing his team under a bus).

Obviously I'm not saying Rog will beat him seriously. For that, we'd need peak Rog (like Rog was beating Vinge in the Vuelta 2023 when Vingegaard was ill/not at his best). We don't have a top shape Rog here. So that point is moot.

But Vinge? I think when you muck up the 'race of truth' it means something. That's how it's always been as far as I can remember tbh (like remember that one time Jan Ullrich smashed L.A. in the 2003 TdF in an ITT? We saw later how their gap in the mountains was not what it used to be).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But Vinge? I think when you muck up the 'race of truth' it means something. That's how it's always been as far as I can remember tbh (like remember that one time Jan Ullrich smashed L.A. in the 2003 TdF in an ITT? We saw later how their gap in the mountains was not what it used to be).

Pogacar had an underwhelming Dauphine TT performance (losing to Vingo 28 seconds on short 17 km TT) and look what happened next. I classify Pog's performance as a bad day (or maybe some problems with TT setup). It could be similar with Vingo.

 

[Rackham]

Pogacar had an underwhelming Dauphine TT performance (losing to Vingo 28 seconds on short 17 km TT) and look what happened next. I classify Pog's performance as a bad day (or maybe some problems with TT setup). It could be similar with Vingo.

Because this is the Rog thread I'll tie this into this topic, i.e. Vinge has evidently been working on his explosiveness and he's now riding aggressive on classics type stages. This is what he wanted and what Visma wanted. I also expect Rog to lose some more time here at the end (& then some more on Monday's stage that looks potentially really dangerous for Rog in his current form).

But we already saw Vinge riding aggressive in the first stages of the Dauphiné (& then get crushed in the mountains) and the fact his ITT performance was worse in the Tour than in the Dauphiné is not a good sign. If someone had said last month that Vinge would legit lose over a minute versus Pog in that first ITT on Wednesday, people would have seen it as a very bad sign for what's to come later.

His form curve should be up, not down.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If he comes into any sort of Rogla like form, 3rd is pretty much there for the taking, I would even say 2nd. Now, beating Pog requires him to be at 100% throughout the whole race and that is not him this year.

Yeah okay. From getting dropped throughout the entire first week into 2nd for the taking

 

[Rou]

Pogacar had an underwhelming Dauphine TT performance (losing to Vingo 28 seconds on short 17 km TT) and look what happened next. I classify Pog's performance as a bad day (or maybe some problems with TT setup). It could be similar with Vingo.

The difference is that Pog was cruising in that Dauphine TT. Everyone who fails to see that probably needs a visit to an eye doctor.

 

[Divergence]

Yeah okay. From getting dropped throughout the entire first week into 2nd for the taking

Well he is the second best rider in the world. And as far as we know he is not injured at the moment. And it does not seem to me that he is overweight. Therefore, he is just not at his best level caridiowise. That can, however, come around as the days progress and that is what I a hoping for. Of course, he might have suffered so much between the Giro and the Tour that his level is so low that all these stages count as overtraining and his form will just go down (this is what I hope does not happen).
Edit: Him not going fully in the red at the end of these stages seems to suggest to me that he is trying to let his form go up without overdoing it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdmaT-2WCc

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbXBShXhrIk


Back at the Tour 2021 and on Mûr-de-Bretagne.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Well he is the second best rider in the world. And as far as we know he is not injured at the moment. And it does not seem to me that he is overweight. Therefore, he is just not at his best level caridiowise. That can, however, come around as the days progress and that is what I a hoping for. Of course, he might have suffered so much between the Giro and the Tour that his level is so low that all these stages count as overtraining and his form will just go down (this is what I hope does not happen).
Edit: Him not going fully in the red at the end of these stages seems to suggest to me that he is trying to let his form go up without overdoing it.

No, Roglic is not the second best rider in the world.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No, Roglic is not the second best rider in the world.

Of course he is not, he is the best.

 

[Rackham]

I get whiplash when people start talking about 1st, 2nd or 3rd best riders in the world.

In March/April, classics legends like MvdP are considered 2nd. With obviously the Indominous Pogiraptor being the apex predator of our timeline because he's the best at everything.

So now that's it's July, is Vinge suddenly the second best rider in the world again? It's difficult to keep track of these changes.

 

[Divergence]

I get whiplash when people start talking about 1st, 2nd or 3rd best riders in the world.

In March/April, classics legends like MvdP are considered 2nd. With obviously the Indominous Pogiraptor being the apex predator of our timeline because he's the best at everything.

So now that's it's July, is Vinge suddenly the second best rider in the world again? It's difficult to keep track of these changes.

Imho a rider must be able to go fast uphill to be considered among the best in the world. It is about 90% of the criteria.

 

[Divergence]

Regarding this schism within the team, it seems to me that there is some truth to that. I would guess that Rogla would have preferred to have Jan with him no matter what his level is. I mean it cannot be worse than having any of Meeus, Van Poppel, Van Dijke in the team. But the team did not select Jan for some reason. On top of than Jan posted about having his 3rd best 20min power output a few days ago. So maybe we are looking at a non extension at the end of the year and hopefully Rog finally finds a proper team next year.

 

[acm]

Regarding this schism within the team, it seems to me that there is some truth to that. I would guess that Rogla would have preferred to have Jan with him no matter what his level is. I mean it cannot be worse than having any of Meeus, Van Poppel, Van Dijke in the team. But the team did not select Jan for some reason. On top of than Jan posted about having his 3rd best 20min power output a few days ago. So maybe we are looking at a non extension at the end of the year and hopefully Rog finally finds a proper team next year.

Naah, two days before the TdF started Jan couldn't even ride a bike for 3 hours without pain in the knee. Health is and should be in the first place.

 

[Divergence]

Naah, two days before the TdF started Jan couldn't even ride a bike for 3 hours without pain in the knee. Health is and should be in the first place.

I agree that health should be at the forefront, but as I said, I am unsure whose decision it was not to take him. It might have just been some PR move. Jan's post is a bit cryptic.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I get whiplash when people start talking about 1st, 2nd or 3rd best riders in the world.

In March/April, classics legends like MvdP are considered 2nd. With obviously the Indominous Pogiraptor being the apex predator of our timeline because he's the best at everything.

So now that's it's July, is Vinge suddenly the second best rider in the world again? It's difficult to keep track of these changes.

Its quite clearly Pog, and then you can take your pick between Jonas and Mathieu. I personally think Mathieu is second and Vingegaard third. Remco is quite clearly the 4th best in the world.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Question: Why does Roglic insist on positioning himself so badly?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Answer: I guess he just has no legs

 

[Peyroteo94]

He won't even top10 this race.

 

[Red Rick]

He won't even top10 this race.

IIRC you said he wouldn't top 5 because he would crash out. Changing tune so soon?

 

[Valv.Piti]

With Almeida out, top 5 looks very realistic now. He has to beat his own teammate (which might be hard), Gall, Mas and Jorgenson. On this route Gall and Lipowitz should be really good considering how well they have gotten through week 1 with their skillsets.