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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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bNator

bNator

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Red Rick said:
I see a distinct unsaltiness when talking about Pogacar.
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Out of all the admirable traits Roglic has - this one for me is the most difficult to understand. He really looks completely cool with everything regarding Pogacar. And he looks sincere, it’s not just saying what his PR advisors told him to - his stance (let the best man win) seems genuine.

All this from a ruthless serial winner. Roglic is a great winner but when it comes to losing he is GOAT. And I mean that in the most positive way.
 
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Oldermanish

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bNator said:
Out of all the admirable traits Roglic has - this one for me is the most difficult to understand. He really looks completely cool with everything regarding Pogacar. And he looks sincere, it’s not just saying what his PR advisors told him to - his stance (let the best man win) seems genuine.

All this from a ruthless serial winner. Roglic is a great winner but when it comes to losing he is GOAT. And I mean that in the most positive way.
Click to expand...
I think Roglic sincerely is cool with how things turn out. Maybe the zen state he learned from ski jumping and surviving a few life-threatening crashes. It is super-mature to not get sucked into the mindset that can work against you. Cobrelli still walking the earth is testimony to that awareness. His race motivation is the counter response to that mental discipline and surely has much to do with his ability to race to his limit.
It's a very admirable level of awareness and perhaps he sees that attritute in Pogacar as well. They both love to RACE. We get the benefit of it IMO.
 
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Red Rick

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Oldermanish said:
I think Roglic sincerely is cool with how things turn out. Maybe the zen state he learned from ski jumping and surviving a few life-threatening crashes. It is super-mature to not get sucked into the mindset that can work against you. Cobrelli still walking the earth is testimony to that awareness. His race motivation is the counter response to that mental discipline and surely has much to do with his ability to race to his limit.
It's a very admirable level of awareness and perhaps he sees that attritute in Pogacar as well. They both love to RACE. We get the benefit of it IMO.
Click to expand...
Roglic is happy he's a cyclist because he sucks at basketball.

He must have been projecting.
 
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Oldermanish

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Red Rick said:
Roglic is happy he's a cyclist because he sucks at basketball.

He must have been projecting.
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I have never, ever seen a cyclist that didn't suck at basketball. Also have only seen one Pro basketball player that was halfway good a cycling. Strong, motivated but couldn't handle a crosswind....Blew rather than sucked in that condition.
Equity of physical attributes restored so all was good.
 
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CyclistAbi

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227762724_4494942353871736_2159966447457286366_n.jpg
 
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Krzysztof_O

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Oldermanish said:
I think Roglic sincerely is cool with how things turn out. Maybe the zen state he learned from ski jumping and surviving a few life-threatening crashes. It is super-mature to not get sucked into the mindset that can work against you. Cobrelli still walking the earth is testimony to that awareness. His race motivation is the counter response to that mental discipline and surely has much to do with his ability to race to his limit.
It's a very admirable level of awareness and perhaps he sees that attritute in Pogacar as well. They both love to RACE. We get the benefit of it IMO.
Click to expand...

The most important thing for Primoz is that the Tour winner is a Slovenian, no matter who. Vinge could be a problem but Primoz will make sure to overuse him as a superdom.
 
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JosefK

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Maybe a bigger factor for Rogla than Dennis's absence will be Sepp Kuss's form. If Kuss is in his best form, he can be a big factor in sucking the excitement out of decisive mountain stages, which may need to happen to forestall a Pog rampage (like Stage 8 in last year's TDF). ... Oh, who am I kidding? If Pog wants to rampage, nothing can prevent it.
 
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bajbar

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JosefK said:
Maybe a bigger factor for Rogla than Dennis's absence will be Sepp Kuss's form. If Kuss is in his best form, he can be a big factor in sucking the excitement out of decisive mountain stages, which may need to happen to forestall a Pog rampage (like Stage 8 in last year's TDF). ... Oh, who am I kidding? If Pog wants to rampage, nothing can prevent it.
Click to expand...

The Pogačar masterclass usually happens in rather specific conditions - end of the week, after a couple of hard raced stages, preferably cold and wet. His best GT performances came on those occasions - stage 9 and 20 in La Vuelta 2019, stages 8 and 9 in the Tour 2021 and stage 20 TT in the Tour 2020 (although there was no rain there).

This year there might not be much rain and cold. And all the big important stages (with the exception of the last TT) come at the start of weeks 2 and 3. So less acumulated fatigue. Plus, there is an extra rest day which might also maka a difference.

Just as comparison, Roglič's best performances have come in exactly the opposite circumstances than those of Pogačar - start of the week or mid-week, usually nice and warm conditions and on days/stages where the previous racing wasn't so energy draining. Los Machuchos and Pau TT in the 2019 Vuelta, Orcierres Merlette, Puy Mary and Col de la Loze in the Tour 2020, Covadonga stage last year was also stage 17 (so begining of week three) - eve though this one was in rain. And his worst performances in GTs have almost always come at the end of the week (1, 2 or 3, doesn't matter really). So there is a clear pattern for both riders.

So the conditions might also influence who will have the upper hand.
 
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Nick2413

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bajbar said:
The Pogačar masterclass usually happens in rather specific conditions - end of the week, after a couple of hard raced stages, preferably cold and wet. His best GT performances came on those occasions - stage 9 and 20 in La Vuelta 2019, stages 8 and 9 in the Tour 2021 and stage 20 TT in the Tour 2020 (although there was no rain there).

This year there might not be much rain and cold. And all the big important stages (with the exception of the last TT) come at the start of weeks 2 and 3. So less acumulated fatigue. Plus, there is an extra rest day which might also maka a difference.

Just as comparison, Roglič's best performances have come in exactly the opposite circumstances than those of Pogačar - start of the week or mid-week, usually nice and warm conditions and on days/stages where the previous racing wasn't so energy draining. Los Machuchos and Pau TT in the 2019 Vuelta, Orcierres Merlette, Puy Mary and Col de la Loze in the Tour 2020, Covadonga stage last year was also stage 17 (so begining of week three) - eve though this one was in rain. And his worst performances in GTs have almost always come at the end of the week (1, 2 or 3, doesn't matter really). So there is a clear pattern for both riders.

So the conditions might also influence who will have the upper hand.
Click to expand...
I really hope Roglic is on top form and there is a proper duel, but I just don’t see it being close this year. Pog lost like 10 seconds on Loze and was on par for everything else whether it was beginning or end of week in 2020. He even won the sprint in his group on the crosswind stage. He’s stronger now and Roglic is likely less strong. All we can do is hope for a good battle regardless of who it’s between at this point.
 
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Oldermanish

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bajbar said:
The Pogačar masterclass usually happens in rather specific conditions - end of the week, after a couple of hard raced stages, preferably cold and wet. His best GT performances came on those occasions - stage 9 and 20 in La Vuelta 2019, stages 8 and 9 in the Tour 2021 and stage 20 TT in the Tour 2020 (although there was no rain there).

This year there might not be much rain and cold. And all the big important stages (with the exception of the last TT) come at the start of weeks 2 and 3. So less acumulated fatigue. Plus, there is an extra rest day which might also maka a difference.

Just as comparison, Roglič's best performances have come in exactly the opposite circumstances than those of Pogačar - start of the week or mid-week, usually nice and warm conditions and on days/stages where the previous racing wasn't so energy draining. Los Machuchos and Pau TT in the 2019 Vuelta, Orcierres Merlette, Puy Mary and Col de la Loze in the Tour 2020, Covadonga stage last year was also stage 17 (so begining of week three) - eve though this one was in rain. And his worst performances in GTs have almost always come at the end of the week (1, 2 or 3, doesn't matter really). So there is a clear pattern for both riders.

So the conditions might also influence who will have the upper hand.
Click to expand...
All relevant observations although we are another year along on both riders' development and team changes. Per JosefK: Sepp Kuss can be a serious disruptor for UAE and Ineos along with Jonas. If they're both climbing well we have seen them stay or even drop Tadej. It'll be interesting to see how the intra-team strategy works out and who emerges from the other contending squads as wild cards. This could be a Tour that gets down to surprises.
 
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Krzysztof_O

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bajbar said:
The Pogačar masterclass usually happens in rather specific conditions - end of the week, after a couple of hard raced stages, preferably cold and wet. His best GT performances came on those occasions - stage 9 and 20 in La Vuelta 2019, stages 8 and 9 in the Tour 2021 and stage 20 TT in the Tour 2020 (although there was no rain there).

This year there might not be much rain and cold. And all the big important stages (with the exception of the last TT) come at the start of weeks 2 and 3. So less acumulated fatigue. Plus, there is an extra rest day which might also maka a difference.

Just as comparison, Roglič's best performances have come in exactly the opposite circumstances than those of Pogačar - start of the week or mid-week, usually nice and warm conditions and on days/stages where the previous racing wasn't so energy draining. Los Machuchos and Pau TT in the 2019 Vuelta, Orcierres Merlette, Puy Mary and Col de la Loze in the Tour 2020, Covadonga stage last year was also stage 17 (so begining of week three) - eve though this one was in rain. And his worst performances in GTs have almost always come at the end of the week (1, 2 or 3, doesn't matter really). So there is a clear pattern for both riders.

So the conditions might also influence who will have the upper hand.
Click to expand...

Agreed. JV, especially if they make Vigne a superdom, is strong enough to neutralize most stages (until last 2-3 km) and that includes even Pogacar. We saw their strength in 2020. At some point Pog will probably make a successful attack but it's consequences are also conditions-dependent. Hot weather will definitely be JV (also Primoz likes it more). OTOH one nasty, cold day and Pog eliminates all JV doms with one acceleration and their response is up to Roglic.
 
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