Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[bNator]

He gives me a mild form of PTSD.

Wow! I thought I was the only one Though on Tuesday I noticed it was the first time the entire day didn’t feel like *** after the crash/pog…

anyway, as @Extinction mentioned - he isn’t a bad bike handler. He could be better but he also could have less bad luck. The problem with Roglic is that every crash has a very noticeable effect because every race he does he is either a favourite or leading the race when it happens. That’s why you get the feeling he is constantly crashing.

This year he was of the bike on the ground 2 times. You can’t seriously argue that’s a sign of a poor bike handler. That must be waaay below average. Now the problem is that both crashes had severe consequences. If anything, he’s maybe not careful/fearful enough…

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Finally, something we agree with. He's a good bike handler & a good descender. He doesn't develop mental issues relating to his crashes either (someone like Pierre Latour for example cannot descend at all now because he has a mental block). Tom Steels noted something interesting, i.e. he said as an ex ski jumper his 'scare levels' might be low compared to other riders: Waarom valt Primoz Roglic zo vaak? "Zijn schrikgehalte ligt als ex-schansspringer te laag" | Vive le Vélo | sporza

It's an interesting take, i.e. to say he's essentially a victim of his own courage.

I think he lacks kinda "intuition" when riding, especially in a group. Something that other cyclists that ride from early years have. For example positioning in the peleton or bad decision making (like in this case). At the start of his career he felt way more comfortable alone (ITTs) than in a group and I think it's not completely different even now.

 

[Rackham]

I think he lacks kinda "intuition" when riding, especially in a group. Something that other cyclists that ride from early years have. For example positioning in the peleton or bad decision making (like in this case). At the start of his career he felt way more comfortable alone (ITTs) than in a group and I think it's not completely different even now.

I think the constant psychoanalyzing he receives after a crash is also tedious at this point, i.e. for example there's guys like Schachmann who say stuff in the media about Jumbo causing crashes but there's no one keeping tabs & counting his crashes, i.e. crashes which are quite numerous, actually. Loads & loads of riders who've been through all the youth categories crash all the time (often seriously). No one notices or cares though because they're mostly not fighting for GT wins.

In my opinion the explanation for Tuesday is very straightforward, i.e. he was simply the cycling equivalent of an F1 driver on the ragged edge pushing himself to his limit (& over).

Sebastian Vettel used to get labelled a spin master & crash merchant during his years at Ferrari but the reasons were very similar, i.e. pushing himself & the car over the limit. He also had 'experts' claiming he needed psychological help or extra training. But now we see Leclerc & Sainz also having the same sort of problems in the same team.

In this Vuelta, Roglič had a very subpar team. Other than Chris Harper & a few pulls by Gesink (or an occasional semi leadout by Teunissen), he was basically on his own. Jumbo sent Sepp Kuss & Affini home for xyz reasons. On Tuesday, he had zero leadout & almost zero help getting him into position at the front. Was this by design to surprise the peloton with an attack? Who knows, but the material fact is he dropped a monster watts bomb all by himself & pulled like crazy to maintain that gap.

He then crashed. End of story, no need for cycling commentators, ex riders or anyone to twist the knife into the wound.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I feel it's rather obvious. On why Rogla crashed on stage 16. And Evenepoel or Mas didn't. It's not due to bike handling skills. Not even bad luck. It's due to Rogla being an elite sprinter.

Ask any real sprinter on how it is like. In that final couple hundred meters. It happens.

 

[Extinction]

I feel it's rather obvious. On why Rogla crashed on stage 16. And Evenepoel or Mas didn't. It's not due to bike handling skills. Not even bad luck. It's due to Rogla being an elite sprinter.

Ask any real sprinter on how it is like. In that final couple hundred meters. It happens.

Yea, but he made the fatal mistake of trying to stay in the mix, coming upon the rider who was accellerating across his forward path. He wasn't going to get bonus secs, having done all the work, and so just should have safely sat on the back.

 

[yaco]

I am more interested in seeing Roglic and Remco going head-to-head at the 2023 Giro

 

[Gargamel35]

Yea, but he made the fatal mistake of trying to stay in the mix, coming upon the rider who was accellerating across his forward path. He wasn't going to get bonus secs, having done all the work, and so just should have safely sat on the back.

He tried to do that, but missed another guy coming from behind and touched with him. I don't know how many kg Roglič has, but looks like he just bounces of sprinters and crashes easily.

 

[jmdirt]

But he didn't really crash a lot this year. Two times which is not a huge number. Problem is, if he crashes, he CRASHES.

I'm not sure how many crashes equals a lot, but he crashed more than twice this year.

 

[jmdirt]

Wow! I thought I was the only one Though on Tuesday I noticed it was the first time the entire day didn’t feel like *** after the crash/pog…

anyway, as @Extinction mentioned - he isn’t a bad bike handler. He could be better but he also could have less bad luck. The problem with Roglic is that every crash has a very noticeable effect because every race he does he is either a favourite or leading the race when it happens. That’s why you get the feeling he is constantly crashing.

This year he was of the bike on the ground 2 times. You can’t seriously argue that’s a sign of a poor bike handler. That must be waaay below average. Now the problem is that both crashes had severe consequences. If anything, he’s maybe not careful/fearful enough…

Where is this "only two crashes" coming from? He was on the ground in the spring, at least twice in the TdF, and now this one at VaS, so that's four without even really counting.

 

[IndianCyclist]

He has been crashing since Giro 2019 specially when under pressure or leading the race.
On the other hand no one can beat G. He has crashed downhill, on flat, uphill as well, in the bunch, alone, all stage types and to cap all of it, in the neutral zone.
Since Roglic does not need any more bad luck thru crashes, he has to ensure Kelderman is not one of his teammates in a GT or if he is to ensure he is positioned at least 1 m behind him

 

[Rackham]

Where is this "only two crashes" coming from? He was on the ground in the spring, at least twice in the TdF, and now this one at VaS, so that's four without even really counting.

I don't think so.

I can't say he crashed at all this spring (spring 2021 yes, but not this spring). Unless something happened off camera, the TdF was his first crash of the season.

He started the season with a couple of one day races in France late February (no crashes), he then did Paris-Nice where he didn't crash either. Milan-Sanremo? No crash. Itzulia? No crash. Dauphiné? No crash.

It's not something I usually keep track of but since I watch all his races, I'm fairly confident in saying it's two crashes this year.

 

[acm]

I don't think so.

I can't say he crashed at all this spring (spring 2021 yes, but not this spring). Unless something happened off camera, the TdF was his first crash of the season.

He started the season with a couple of one day races in France late February (no crashes), he then did Paris-Nice where he didn't crash either. Milan-Sanremo? No crash. Itzulia? No crash. Dauphiné? No crash.

It's not something I usually keep track of but since I watch all his races, I'm fairly confident in saying it's two crashes this year.

Yes, you're right. There was one crash in TdF when Pogacar went down but Roglic was just caught behind and he didn't really crash.

 

[Extinction]

He tried to do that, but missed another guy coming from behind and touched with him. I don't know how many kg Roglič has, but looks like he just bounces of sprinters and crashes easily.

It seemed to me he was at the back and tried to move forward, when suddenly a rider accellerating from his right came across and Roglic's front wheel touched his rear wheel.

 

[jmdirt]

Yes, you're right. There was one crash in TdF when Pogacar went down but Roglic was just caught behind and he didn't really crash.

In one of the crashes he dislocated his shoulder at TdF so that's more than 'just caught behind'.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yea, but he made the fatal mistake of trying to stay in the mix, coming upon the rider who was accellerating across his forward path. He wasn't going to get bonus secs, having done all the work, and so just should have safely sat on the back.

No i don't agree with that. And if i remember correctly Eurosport commentators said something of the same in the heat of the moment. This situation was rather different as Roglič was not a typical lead out. His job was not done. Hence once he decided this is it. It was his job to get back in the bunch. This is something that doesn't normally happen in a bunch sprint finale. For lead out to get back in the bunch.

What i feel happened next is Roglič evaluated Wright can't cope and he wanted to position himself in front of Wright. As Wright wasn't able to cope. And Roglič didn't want to lose seconds. I don't feel it was intentional. But in my opinion Wright should back off. As he was out of contention already and no need to be that aggressive.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for crashing stats. AFAIK everybody crashes in pro peloton. Like crashes a lot. On the other hand only a few have results as Roglič has. Hence he can't be that bad in this regards and if his bike skills would really be that bad. As some people claim. What would that say of the other 99% of the peloton. He is now in the position he has already proven himself. Hence he can let a GT or two slide.

In regards to GT racing for him now is more on how to get an A team support. Will he have to put his team in such position or what. As TDF 22 crash in my opinion was due to bad team support. And on stage 16 of Vuelta 22 he had a crappy lead out.

Hence what is up with that. Why is his team offering such subpar support. This is something he needs to resolve. Then more GT results will come. The ideas on how he will go to giro in 23. Fine. But with who exactly. Will they be there on the second half of the climb. At the end of bunch sprint stages. On gravel ...

This is what needs to get resolved. As currently his team more or less expects Rogla will throw himself under the bus for the team. Hence this is resolved as far as the team is concerned. But after this season i wouldn't be so sure about that anymore. Hence who cares if you ride for JV is they are not there for you. Either JV provides that for him or better to look elsewhere. If he will stay with JV then team members should be delegated during the winter season. And not after and based if they are in good or bad form.

 

[roundabout]

Ridiculous to say that Wright should have done something differently when he did not do anything wrong

 

[Valv.Piti]

As for crashing stats. AFAIK everybody crashes in pro peloton. Like crashes a lot. On the other hand only a few have results as Roglič has. Hence he can't be that bad in this regards and if his bike skills would really be that bad. As some people claim. What would that say of the other 99% of the peloton. He is now in the position he has already proven himself. Hence he can let a GT or two slide.

In regards to GT racing for him now is more on how to get an A team support. Will he have to put his team in such position or what. As TDF 22 crash in my opinion was due to bad team support. And on stage 16 of Vuelta 22 he had a crappy lead out.

Hence what is up with that. Why is his team offering such subpar support. This is something he needs to resolve. Then more GT results will come. The ideas on how he will go to giro in 23. Fine. But with who exactly. Will they be there on the second half of the climb. At the end of bunch sprint stages. On gravel ...

This is what needs to get resolved. As currently his team more or less expects Rogla will throw himself under the bus for the team. Hence this is resolved as far as the team is concerned. But after this season i wouldn't be so sure about that anymore. Hence who cares if you ride for JV is they are not there for you. Either JV provides that for him or better to look elsewhere. If he will stay with JV then team members should be delegated during the winter season. And not after and based if they are in good or bad form.

What a once again totally oblivious and delusional post

 

[CyclistAbi]

Ridiculous to say that Wright should have done something differently when he did not do anything wrong

He should back off. As he couldn't cope. Or at least to be less aggressive.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What a once again totally oblivious and delusional post

Or maybe you just have problem with comprehension? I tend to notice that one this forum a lot of one liner persons are rather similar in this regard.

Note that i am not holding that against you or any other person. I am just saying.

 

[roundabout]

He should back off. As he couldn't cope. Or at least to be less aggressive.

In a world where Roglic deviated into Wright, it seems a bit odd to conclude that Wright should have been less aggressive

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I did not want to admit it for quite some time, but in the meantime I really think Primoz‘ bike handling is really poor… One example, Primoz hardly could take his hands off his bars for celebrating, when crossing the finish line in a 1-2-3 with Wout and Laporte (Nice) and a 1-2 with Vinge (Dauphine).

He‘s an extremely versatile sports person, his biography shows that. I however apparently underestimated how difficult it can be to become race cyclist late (age 23 in Primoz‘ case) with regard to gaining decent bike handling skills.

Primoz jumped/flew almost 190 meters in Planica. They say, if you start ski jumping as an adult, you won‘t be able to achieve much better results than jumping 40 meters. He started as a child, so could achieve 190 meters. In cycling, it could be similar concerning bike handling. The physical aspects (power, endurance, …) however, were unproblematic for Primoz. He started racing, soon was CT, soon won, and was Jumbo rider in his fourth full season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In a world where Roglic deviated into Wright, it seems a bit odd to conclude that Wright should have been less aggressive

You don't have to agree. That is my opinion. You can have your own.

In an interview with Wright he basically said he was already done and didn't even know what happened. Still i am sure that he seen Roglič and decided oh no you won't. As he is no Colbrelli he should have let it slide. And i am sure that Roglič made an educated guess. On why he wanted to position himself in front of Wright. He didn't want to lose seconds. That was the whole point of his attack.

But OK.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Skijumper Roglic fan

It's rather problematic for him yes. Then again he has way more time to polish the trophies. Doing it like that. I do wonder if he will start at Vuelta 21 trophy and go all the way down to his 19. Or if he will start polishing the 19 one first. And to move up.

 

[fox]

He should back off. As he couldn't cope. Or at least to be less aggressive.

If you look closely you can see that Wright just holds his line. You then see Roglic going to the right in an abrupt manner. That's why he touches Wright. Not because of the aggressive behavior of Wright but because Roglic doesn't hold his line. Simple as that.

Yes it's a real shame for Roglic and Vuelta, but he only has himself to blame on this one. Roglic will never be a gifted rider when it comes to technique because of missing out on youth cycling.