Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Bonimenier]

He should back off. As he couldn't cope. Or at least to be less aggressive.

Wright finished in the same time as Pedersen even with a kamikaze riding into him and slowing him down. It's obvious he could cope.

 

[Eeslliw]

In one of the crashes he dislocated his shoulder at TdF so that's more than 'just caught behind'.

You are saying he crashed at least 4 times and that is without even really counting (your words). There were "only" 2 crashes this season (stage 5 TDF aka hay bale incident and stage 16 in Vuelta).

Roglic problems with crashes in last 3 years is combination of three factors: 1. bad luck, 2. sometimes lack of fear in descending (going beyond his technical skills) and 3. riding in the peloton.

1. Bad luck

• 2019 Giro: no team car (DS taking a piss) when he needed to switch bikes, in result he had to swap with teammate who rides with much different air pressure in tyres that he is used to.
• 2019 Vuelta: stage 1 TTT, crash because of water leaking from the pool above road. XX stage where he crashed into stopped TV moto on ascent in bad weather conditions (rain and fog).
• 2020 Dauphine: above and beyond everyone till his crash on stage 4. His wife said it was his hardest crash of his career so far. It was a mechanical error on the bike, not pilots error. All that only 2 weeks before TDF. I still believe he would have won that TDF without this crash.
• 2022 TDF: hay bale incident

2. Descending

• 2021 Vuelta: no risk no glory
• 2021 PN: last stage in leaders jersey, crashes 2 times on a descent. Pilots error (maybe getting used to disc brakes had some impact?).

3. Riding in peloton

• 2021 TDF: still no clear view of what excatly happend but he tried to move up were wasn't space and crashed when he touch with another rider
• 2022 Vuelta: probably went well into red zone in result lost concentration and didn't see another rider behind and crashed into him.

His crashes are also very public, ie in a way that you always hear/see and is all in your face as a result that he is in leaders jersey or in fight for it. That's way most people have impression he is crashing all the time and have some idea he is the worst bike handler in the peloton.

He doesn't need to go to bike handling school. He nees some lady luck and that is it. When he won't go hard on descent (taking some risk while high on adrenalin) and start to panic brake all the time when riding in the peloton while trying to move up, he won't be winning races anymore. Simple as that.

 

[fox]

I did not want to admit it for quite some time, but in the meantime I really think Primoz‘ bike handling is really poor… One example, Primoz hardly could take his hands off his bars for celebrating, when crossing the finish line in a 1-2-3 with Wout and Laporte (Nice) and a 1-2 with Vinge (Dauphine).

He‘s an extremely versatile sports person, his biography shows that. I however apparently underestimated how difficult it can be to become race cyclist late (age 23 in Primoz‘ case) with regard to gaining decent bike handling skills.

Primoz jumped/flew almost 190 meters in Planica. They say, if you start ski jumping as an adult, you won‘t be able to achieve much better results than jumping 40 meters. He started as a child, so could achieve 190 meters. In cycling, it could be similar concerning bike handling. The physical aspects (power, endurance, …) however, were unproblematic for Primoz. He started racing, soon was CT, soon won, and was Jumbo rider in his fourth full season.

I am quite sure of it. I started riding a bike when I was 30. I am riding 10K km each year and that is a lot more than my friends. But some of them have been riding since they were 10 years old and everytime it goes downhill or when we are in a bunch I really feel foolish. My bike handling is rubbish compared to them. Put Roglic on a bike when he is 12 and he would do just fine.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If you look closely you can see that Wright just holds his line. You then see Roglic going to the right in an abrupt manner. That's why he touches Wright. Not because of the aggressive behavior of Wright but because Roglic doesn't hold his line. Simple as that.

Yes it's a real shame for Roglic and Vuelta, but he only has himself to blame on this one. Roglic will never be a gifted rider when it comes to technique because of missing out on youth cycling.

In a sprint finale you need to be a bully a bit. Roglič coming from a GC backround and doing most of his sprints on MTF. He just needs to practice some more. That is all there is to it. He knew he has Wright. He just didn't know how to tackle him correctly. to position himself in front of him.

It will come as i have seen already this year. A bit of elbowing when positioning himself against weaker riders.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Wright finished in the same time as Pedersen even with a kamikaze riding into him and slowing him down. It's obvious he could cope.

He could have done exactly the same. Finishing behind Roglič. As that was the whole point for Roglič. To finish in the same group. Likely making a split second decision staying behind Wright could cost him a second or two.

But i know it's sprinters mentality. And in this part i agree this is something Roglič is only getting better at. But compared to most other GC riders on this race i feel he is already way ahead.

Hence people arguing Roglič has bad biking skills. Lets put any other GC favorite from this race in a bunch sprint finale. And lets see how they will cope.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Another alternative Rogla had is. Look. I am second and i am happy. And i won't crash. As my biking skills are so great. And we could all just enjoy the procession. Congratulating them for their impeccable bravery.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And last but not least. I am sure that Rogla wanted to sprint for bonus seconds. And he might just as well take a couple.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He should back off. As he couldn't cope. Or at least to be less aggressive.

But in my opinion Wright should back off. As he was out of contention already and no need to be that aggressive.

Yes, lets tell the 23 year old with no wins who’s trying to get the best results he can to better his career and standings for contract negotiations to back off and move out of the way for Roglic pushing into his line. While we’re at it, why doesn’t everyone just abandon and we can award all the jerseys to Roglic for the audacity of the other riders not backing off and getting out of his way.

 

[Oldermanish]

In a sprint finale you need to be a bully a bit. Roglič coming from a GC backround and doing most of his sprints on MTF. He just needs to practice some more. That is all there is to it. He knew he has Wright. He just didn't know how to tackle him correctly. to position himself in front of him.

It will come as i have seen already this year. A bit of elbowing when positioning himself against weaker riders.

Roglic was out of the sprint after 2.5km of driving solo and he knew it. He just forgot how to count and was trying to assure front pack time at the finish. Rule #1 of echelons: don't overlap your front wheel with the leading rider. It always ends badly. Wright was a legitimate sprint participant while Roglic was taking the back seat and needed to back off more. He was also cross-eyed from his effort so he may have thought he had more space.

 

[Oldermanish]

Roglic is a GC contender. If he clearly cannot gain time bonuses or a victory he should not get into the sprint zone. Those guys are used to the sudden moves of other riders and consequences of misjudging the situation. Roglic learned again the consequences and doesn't need to practice it. The absolute best sprinters crash very hard and his learning curve will not make him a pure sprinter.

 

[bNator]

Where is this "only two crashes" coming from? He was on the ground in the spring, at least twice in the TdF, and now this one at VaS, so that's four without even really counting.

Feel free to correct me, of course. I’m saying:

1. Hale Bale TDF
2. Vuelta stage 16

please, provide numbers 3 and 4…

 

[SHAD0W93]

View: https://youtu.be/oNRYgKyZBAI


I wonder if crashes in skiing or cycling are worse

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes, lets tell the 23 year old with no wins who’s trying to get the best results he can to better his career and standings for contract negotiations to back off and move out of the way for Roglic pushing into his line. While we’re at it, why doesn’t everyone just abandon and we can award all the jerseys to Roglic for the audacity of the other riders not backing off and getting out of his way.

You basically proved the point i was trying to make. That is Wright was a bit to eager and aggressive. Regardless of the motives. He was really not in a position to gain much from this stage. Being fourth or fifth. He knew he was trailing along. Roglič was still in it for bonus seconds. And in my opinion Roglič would gain a couple of bonus seconds on this stage.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Another thing i find interesting is on this edition of Vuelta. It was more important for JV for every member of the team to wear leaders jersey for a day. Then to actually win the leaders jersey as a team.

Beyond a team member or two steeping up a really subpar team support and approach.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Sometimes, even Rogla makes mistakes. Sometimes there's no need to look for someone else to blame.
Sad to see him out, that was a memorable attack.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You basically proved the point i was trying to make. That is Wright was a bit to eager and aggressive. Regardless of the motives. He was really not in a position to gain much from this stage. Being fourth or fifth. He knew he was trailing along. Roglič was still in it for bonus seconds. And in my opinion Roglič would gain a couple of bonus seconds on this stage.

Please tell me you are kidding.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Sometimes, even Rogla makes mistakes. Sometimes there's no need to look for someone else to blame.
Sad to see him out, that was a memorable attack.

It's analysis. You need to do that after you end doing something. Too see if there is something to improve going forward.

 

[Red Rick]

Another thing i find interesting is on this edition of Vuelta. It was more important for JV for every member of the team to wear leaders jersey for a day. Then to actually win the leaders jersey as a team.

Beyond a team member or two steeping up a really subpar team support and approach.

How are they related?

Their team was weakened by circumstances. Kuss got COVID. Roglic had the aforementioned bad preperation. Dennis was hospitalized before the Vuelta with undisclosed ailments. Bouwman was supposed to go but was injured.

Harper and Gesink have done really well all things considering. Oomen never reached his Sunweb level.

And it's not like Evenepoel is winning the Vuelta thanks to his unbeatable team.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Please tell me you are kidding.

About what? You don't believe Roglič was still racing and after bonus second? You don't believe Wright was already trialing along. And was only an obstacle.

Be more specific.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Red Rick

I agree about Gesink and Harper. Still in the end the team support was subpar on this race.

The problem i see here is not in regards to this Vuelta. That is over now. The problem i see here is this could become a standard. In regards to supporting Roglič on GTs other then Tour. And on Tour it's reasonable to expect his bike will be in third position on the team car. Are there better options.

 

[Oldermanish]

About what? You don't believe Roglič was still racing and after bonus second? You don't believe Wright was already trialing along. And was only an obstacle.

Be more specific.

Roglic was physically and strategically done and wanted to maintain contact with the group. Wright did nothing wrong, at all. Cardinal rule of sprinting: if your bottom bracket is ahead of another rider you own the line, especially if that rider is going backward. Roglic's crew new it was his mistake and had nothing to say about it. He's made some good sprint finishes (the one schooling everyone in this Vuelta) but I'd say he's been willing to stray into pinched areas. Check him in the run in to this stage crash at about 7km. He's riding the right side barriers with no where to go. He's.........not.........a..........sprinter. He's a very fast GC guy out of small groups.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Oldermanish

I seen him elbowing a bit on a race or two this year. I just don't feel it should come to that. Next time just back off if you are in it for nothing and you know that. That is if a GC guy is elbowing with you in a sprint finale. And you already know the best you can do is to finish fourth. You ought to know the GC guy is in it for more. Especially if he dropped you a couple of meters back.

 

[Bonimenier]

Good thing CyclistAbi isn't a cyclist because he would fail every drugtest.

 

[Lequack]

sad story, huh?
a short note on the roglič exit

sad story, huh?

a short note on the roglič exit

derailleur.substack.com

 

[red_flanders]

You basically proved the point i was trying to make. That is Wright was a bit to eager and aggressive. Regardless of the motives. He was really not in a position to gain much from this stage. Being fourth or fifth. He knew he was trailing along. Roglič was still in it for bonus seconds. And in my opinion Roglič would gain a couple of bonus seconds on this stage.

Honest question. Is this for real?

There is one and only one person to blame for Roglič's crash, and that's Roglič. It's a huge shame, he's a great rider and sportsman, but there's nothing more to it than that. Nothing.