Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Andy schleck]

Same feeling here. His recent interview kinda suggested he wants the Tour.

Van Aert says in this interview https://www.hln.be/wielrennen/inter...r-ik-was-er-even-helemaal-klaar-mee~a2449ec0/ :

I'm not sure what that means. I'm guessing Jumbo wanted Roglic to start protected in Tour but eventually sacrifice himself for Vingo if they're close.

Regarding the Giro team I have a lot of doubts given how bad TJV has prepared in the past for it. A lot depends on Kelderman. Kuss in that team would've really make a huge difference given the 3rd week. Not sure how Hessmann earned a Giro spot, he barely rode any WT races. Leemreize or Attila Valter should be there instead of him.

That's a shame but roglic had his chances of being the leader at the tour. Now vingegaard won the tour. He should be the leader. Roglic need to understand that. Besides that, roglic should be motivated, because win the giro is also a great achievement for his career. If he says that still has 4 years at his best, he still have time to win the tour.

Jumbo have a great oportunity to win two tours in a row. They have a deep team to support roglic and Vingegaard.

 

[Andy schleck]

Final TT has a 11k flat section, where Roglic will need to go at the limit to keep up. Either he loses time on the flat and both start the climb equally in the red, or Roglic has to dig deeper on the flat and Evenepoel starts the climb a bit fresher. And then the climb itself, is like a perfect example of climbs were Evenepoel has done serious damage last year. On top of either starting the climb fresher or having a time bonus at that point. If Roglic doesn't lose any time in this TT he should count his blessings.

The last TT it's a question who of them have the best legs.
Two different TTs, with different type of climbs. Before LPDBF there was 30 flat Km. Last giro TT just have 10 flat TT. It will be a 30 min effort(the climb will be a bit more than 20 minutes). TT of the tour was 1 one hour effort.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Didn't watch it, but Rog wasn't there. The fact that he didn't comment on the news either makes it look bad, IMO. But I'm imagining things, according to some ;-)

The entire J-V Giro squad has been announced in a podcast, btw. It's also up on PCS:

• AFFINI Edoardo
• TRATNIK Jan
• FOSS Tobias
• HESSMANN Michel
• KELDERMAN Wilco
• BOUWMAN Koen
• GESINK Robert
• ROGLIČ Primož

Mmmh, Hessmann… He‘s good, but maybe the Giro comes a bit early?

Primoz already raced with him as a domestique, even in Italy. Maybe Primoz was impressed by him?

Hessmann never rode a stage race with more than nine stages, AFAIK. And starting his GT career with a Giro as a domestique for Roglic who wants to win the race, sounds ambitious… But Hessmann has a big motor, and also climbs rather well - in addition to his power on the flats. Let‘s see how he does…

 

[Salvarani]

Mmmh, Hessmann… He‘s good, but maybe the Giro comes a bit early?

Primoz already raced with him as a domestique, even in Italy. Maybe Primoz was impressed by him?

Hessmann never rode a stage race with more than nine stages, AFAIK. And starting his GT career with a Giro as a domestique for Roglic who wants to win the race, sounds ambitious… But Hessmann has a big motor, and also climbs rather well - in addition to his power on the flats. Let‘s see how he does…

Leemreize was good last year in the Giro.

The first GT is always gonna your first GT. With that type of thinking, no one is gonna be ready.

Roglic cant expect the best support either. He will have to make due with what he gets.

Looks pretty good on paper to me though. He will have one of the strongest teams in the the race with him still.

Question is if he will be able to prepare enough and what his shape will be.

 

[red_flanders]

Same feeling here. His recent interview kinda suggested he wants the Tour.

Van Aert says in this interview https://www.hln.be/wielrennen/inter...r-ik-was-er-even-helemaal-klaar-mee~a2449ec0/ :

I'm not sure what that means. I'm guessing Jumbo wanted Roglic to start protected in Tour but eventually sacrifice himself for Vingo if they're close.

Also thought it was pretty clear but allow me to attempt to translate from coach/media-speak into english.

Is the Tour team just as strong without Roglic?
“That remains to be seen.

"No, obviously not, but you never know who might emerge. We still think Jonas and the team are strong enough to win without Primoz there."

Primoz wanted to ride a grand tour with a full team in support, and the team couldn't guarantee that. That is possible in the Giro.”

"Obviously Jonas is our #1 GT rider, so it wasn't going to be the Tour. We like and respect Rogilč, and we want to support his ambitions. He's a great champion and teammate. Given his desire to be the leader for a GT this year, the options are the Giro and the Vuelta. We don't want to base his whole campaign around a late-season race, and we need a leader for the Giro, and Primoz will certainly be a favorite. The Vuelta is a long way off, and he could be ready again depending on how his year goes. We'll make that decision later this year."

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Basically they wanted him to be a superdomestique. Primoz said no and too bad for them because they will not be able to repeat this year's winning tactics.

Agree with your thoughts about Giro. IMO both Dennis and Valter should be in the team... but many things can change till May.

Foss is a even bit of a question mark, given his mediocre 2022 Giro. He has obviously stepped up since then (mainly in ITTs...), but would have never been preselected for the 2023 Tour. At least not right now. BTW... I'm not at all suggesting that he is a bad choice. Just not 100% convinced that his climbing is consistent enough at this point.

Kelderman and Foss also didn't seem to like that they would be riding in support. That isn't an issue for Dennis:

"Roglic is a very good guy to work for. He's pretty chill" - Rohan Dennis on Roglic domestique role, time-trials responsibility and 2023 goals

Rohan Dennis is settling into a domestique role, and he has talked about his relation with Primoz Roglic who he's worked for the in the past Vuelta a Espana, and also about his relation with performan...

cyclinguptodate.com

Nor is it an issue for Kuss.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/sepp-kuss-in-pursuit-of-weightlessness/

Although it looks like Zeeman suggested that Kelderman could ride for GC, as long as Roglic doesn't need him too much. (I think they expect a dominant Remco). As expected, Kelderman is already improving:

I've had to have a lot of discussions, but that's part of the process. Someone like Wilco also sees that he is improving at the level at which he now trains and is supervised. That's where it starts. You can want a lot of certainties at the front for your leadership, but in the end you have to compete against many other riders in the peloton. Once you have that realization, you will also look at your competition program very differently.' (Google translated)

According to Zeeman, almost everyone is on board. I think Foss is not. He looks to be on his way out, given his recent media statements. Wants to be a GC guy really bad.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The last TT it's a question who of them have the best legs.
Two different TTs, with different type of climbs. Before LPDBF there was 30 flat Km. Last giro TT just have 10 flat TT. It will be a 30 min effort(the climb will be a bit more than 20 minutes). TT of the tour was 1 one hour effort.

The flat section is indeed much shorter. Tour TT was 56 minutes. The Giro TT will be closer to 40. There are 11.3km of rolling terrain before the actual climb, which is longer AND steeper than PdBF. They will be doing +/- 13 minutes before the climb. Good luck doing that climb in 17 minutes, lol. PdBF was 500m elevation, this will be nearly 900.

https://climbfinder.com/en/climbs/monte-lussari-valbruna

 

[Red Rick]

Foss is a even bit of a question mark, given his mediocre 2022 Giro. He has obviously stepped up since then (mainly in ITTs...), but would have never been preselected for the 2023 Tour. At least not right now. BTW... I'm not at all suggesting that he is a bad choice. Just not 100% convinced that his climbing is consistent enough at this point.

Kelderman and Foss also didn't seem to like that they would be riding in support. That isn't an issue for Dennis:

"Roglic is a very good guy to work for. He's pretty chill" - Rohan Dennis on Roglic domestique role, time-trials responsibility and 2023 goals

Rohan Dennis is settling into a domestique role, and he has talked about his relation with Primoz Roglic who he's worked for the in the past Vuelta a Espana, and also about his relation with performan...

cyclinguptodate.com

Nor is it an issue for Kuss.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/sepp-kuss-in-pursuit-of-weightlessness/

Although it looks like Zeeman suggested that Kelderman could ride for GC, as long as Roglic doesn't need him too much. (I think they expect a dominant Remco). As expected, Kelderman is already improving:

I've had to have a lot of discussions, but that's part of the process. Someone like Wilco also sees that he is improving at the level at which he now trains and is supervised. That's where it starts. You can want a lot of certainties at the front for your leadership, but in the end you have to compete against many other riders in the peloton. Once you have that realization, you will also look at your competition program very differently.' (Google translated)

According to Zeeman, almost everyone is on board. I think Foss is not. He looks to be on his way out, given his recent media statements. Wants to be a GC guy really bad.

Kelderman didn't wanna do GCs anymore last time I checked. Maybe he wants some limited freedom for stages, but this is not a team where you're gonna gift everyone freedom for the lulz.

 

[Andy schleck]

The flat section is indeed much shorter. Tour TT was 56 minutes. The Giro TT will be closer to 40. There are 11.3km of rolling terrain before the actual climb, which is longer AND steeper than PdBF. They will be doing +/- 13 minutes before the climb. Good luck doing that climb in 17 minutes, lol. PdBF was 500m elevation, this will be nearly 900.

https://climbfinder.com/en/climbs/monte-lussari-valbruna

I didn't said that they will be doing the climb in 17 min like LPDBF. I said a bit more than twenty minutes. That first 10/11 flat km will not make great differences. They will not burn themselves until the final climb.
It will be a question who of them have the better legs in the end of the giro. It's almost guaranted that remco will win maybe 1 minute in the first two TTs. The last TT it's a question of who will be the best climber in the end of the giro. Roglic best climbing version is not inferior to remco.

 

[acm]

Foss is a even bit of a question mark, given his mediocre 2022 Giro. He has obviously stepped up since then (mainly in ITTs...), but would have never been preselected for the 2023 Tour. At least not right now. BTW... I'm not at all suggesting that he is a bad choice. Just not 100% convinced that his climbing is consistent enough at this point.

Kelderman and Foss also didn't seem to like that they would be riding in support. That isn't an issue for Dennis:

"Roglic is a very good guy to work for. He's pretty chill" - Rohan Dennis on Roglic domestique role, time-trials responsibility and 2023 goals

Rohan Dennis is settling into a domestique role, and he has talked about his relation with Primoz Roglic who he's worked for the in the past Vuelta a Espana, and also about his relation with performan...

cyclinguptodate.com

Nor is it an issue for Kuss.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/sepp-kuss-in-pursuit-of-weightlessness/

Although it looks like Zeeman suggested that Kelderman could ride for GC, as long as Roglic doesn't need him too much. (I think they expect a dominant Remco). As expected, Kelderman is already improving:

I've had to have a lot of discussions, but that's part of the process. Someone like Wilco also sees that he is improving at the level at which he now trains and is supervised. That's where it starts. You can want a lot of certainties at the front for your leadership, but in the end you have to compete against many other riders in the peloton. Once you have that realization, you will also look at your competition program very differently.' (Google translated)

According to Zeeman, almost everyone is on board. I think Foss is not. He looks to be on his way out, given his recent media statements. Wants to be a GC guy really bad.

I didn't get that feeling about Kelderman and Foss. Kelderman immediately said that he will ride for Primoz. I read those recent media statements from Foss and I think that he's ok working for Primoz next year, but then his contract expires and he'll probably search for new team.
Kuss and Roglic have a special bond, but usually Sepp is not really good in spring.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I didn't get that feeling about Kelderman and Foss. Kelderman immediately said that he will ride for Primoz. I read those recent media statements from Foss and I think that he's ok working for Primoz next year, but then his contract expires and he'll probably search for new team.
Kuss and Roglic have a special bond, but usually Sepp is not really good in spring.

You're right about Kelderman. Just went through his interviews again. My bad.

Kelderman didn't wanna do GCs anymore last time I checked.

That's overstating things a bit.

But regardless of what he wants, they signed him mainly as a secondary GC leader, I think.

With all the knowledge that the team now has with guiding tour riders, it also wants to let the 31-year-old Kelderman take steps. 'It is very important for Wilco that we analyze how we can improve him again. If we succeed in that, I think Wilco will be one of the best tour riders in the world', Zeeman sounds ambitious. "We have great hopes and plans for him."

Jumbo-Visma wil Kelderman 'opnieuw opbouwen': 'Hebben grote verwachtingen van hem'

Jumbo-Visma wil Wilco Kelderman terugbrengen naar de wereldt

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

 

[Andy schleck]

I didn't get that feeling about Kelderman and Foss. Kelderman immediately said that he will ride for Primoz. I read those recent media statements from Foss and I think that he's ok working for Primoz next year, but then his contract expires and he'll probably search for new team.
Kuss and Roglic have a special bond, but usually Sepp is not really good in spring.

Foss is not gonna help roglic in the mountains.
They should take Valter instead of him. Kelderman, valter, bouwman and gesink are enough for roglic.

Dennis version giro 2020, Kruijswijk, and kuss, van aert, would be enough for vingegaard at the tour.

I'm talking in terms of help for the leaders in the mountains.

 

[hfer07]

I'm glad he's going to Il GIRO in 2023. It was the best choice, after such "bumpy" 2022.
looking forward to it

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I didn't said that they will be doing the climb in 17 min like LPDBF. I said a bit more than twenty minutes. That first 10/11 flat km will not make great differences. They will not burn themselves until the final climb.
It will be a question who of them have the better legs in the end of the giro. It's almost guaranted that remco will win maybe 1 minute in the first two TTs. The last TT it's a question of who will be the best climber in the end of the giro. Roglic best climbing version is not inferior to remco.

You said it was 60 minutes vs 30 minutes. While in reality it will be closer to a 15 minute difference. The climb in the Giro is considerably harder and will hence take more time than "a bit over 20 minutes".

As for the best legs at the end of the Giro... Remco will be 23, Roglic 33. Roglic bonked completely in the 2020 TDF on the penultimate day. I have no idea if Evenepoel is as good, worse or better than Roglic in a 190km mountain stage with 3 or 4 hard climbs. But I do know that on 1 hard climb, he has numbers that eclipse those of Roglic by a big margin.

 

[acm]

Foss is not gonna help roglic in the mountains.

Why not? Last year he ended in top 10.

 

[Bonimenier]

Why not? Last year he ended in top 10.

Because it doesn't fit the narrative of complaining about Roglic' team when he inevitably fails at the Giro.

 

[Andy schleck]

Why not? Last year he ended in top 10.

Yeah, but he was a disappointment during this year's giro. I thought he would improve his climbing skills.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Now you talked with your emotions. How can remco eclipse by a big margin in a 20/25 min climbing effort? That it's a bit delusional with all due respect.
Roglic already did 6.5 w/kg on alto de acebo in 26 min climbing effort in the third week of the vuelta 2018. That stage had 4 cols. That's just an example of what he's capable of. I don't think he is not capable of doing that type of performance in a TT with one climb. I'm not taking anything from remco. He is already one of the best climbers in the world, but wouldn't eclipse best version of roglic.

Has nothing to do with emotions but with numbers.

 

[Andy schleck]

You said it was 60 minutes vs 30 minutes. While in reality it will be closer to a 15 minute difference. The climb in the Giro is considerably harder and will hence take more time than "a bit over 20 minutes".

As for the best legs at the end of the Giro... Remco will be 23, Roglic 33. Roglic bonked completely in the 2020 TDF on the penultimate day. I have no idea if Evenepoel is as good, worse or better than Roglic in a 190km mountain stage with 3 or 4 hard climbs. But I do know that on 1 hard climb, he has numbers that eclipse those of Roglic by a big margin.

Now you talked with your emotions. How can remco eclipse by a big margin in a 20/25 min climbing effort? That it's a bit delusional with all due respect.
Roglic already did 6.5 w/kg on alto de acebo in 26 min climbing effort in the third week of the vuelta 2018. That stage had 4 cols. That's just an example of what he's capable of. I don't think he is not capable of doing that type of performance in a TT with one climb. I'm not taking anything from remco. He is already one of the best climbers in the world, but wouldn't eclipse best version of roglic.

 

[Andy schleck]

Has nothing to do with emotions but with numbers.

You are talking with emotions because remco's best numbers don't overcome roglic's best version.

 

[Bonimenier]

You are talking with emotions because remco's best numbers don't overcome roglic's best version.

His single climb numbers actually do.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568932901420679169

 

[CyclistAbi]

Who knows how things will end up in regards to season 2023. There is much talk about current Giro and Tour selections.

In regards to the Tour. Vingegaard won in 2022 and hence it would be hard to imagine he would not defend the title in 2023. On top of that there seem to be a culmination of all sorts of factors involved. Claims on how Roglič crashes a lot, lost his final chance in 2020, is too old now, ... On top of that JV won everything there is to win in 2022 season Tour edition. Management now being rather sure they know on how to beat Pogi. Likely so sure in this they don't even know what to do with Roglič. Blinded by their love for Jonas. From Rogličes perspective hence Tour 2023 would be like OK i am the fifth wheel. I mean it's hard as it is. That is when Roglič was considered to be the team leader at the Tour. What that actually meant was van Aert can do whatever he wants and he gets a dedicated helper. On top of that you won't be the sole leader. As leadership will be shared. On top of that we will try to make sure each cyclist from the team will win at least one stage. On most crucial stage. Yes you guessed it. You will be left to crash alone. With no team members around you. And by the way can you crack Pogi for Jonas to gain two minutes we desperately need? As we have it all figured out. Then we will repay you on Vuelta as your super dom will be Harper. With all due respect to Harper. He did a stellar job. Still one third of the climb on a GT race. That is subpar team support by any standards. Anyway. Best to leave Tour 2023 to Pogi and Jonas. To sort it out. On what will happen. Likely Pogi will be better at collecting bonus seconds. That will put Jonas under pressure. And Jonas will need to attack. Difference likely being Pogi won't get dropped. Compared to the current assumption on how Jonas can just drop Pogi at will. Totally disregarding stage 11 and contribution Roglič made. The ITT likely suits Pogi a bit better. All in all good luck. And let the better one win.

As for the Giro. Stage 9 is where Roglič needs to limit the damage. Beyond that Kelderman will likely prove to be invaluable. Due to Alaphilippe not being there. Evenepoel will have a bit harder time to make the selection. At the beginning of the climbs. JV team looks strong enough to control the break on some stages. That is for Roglič to collect more bonus seconds. Due to cyclist like Kelderman contributing. It likely should be possible to crack Evenepoel at least once in mountains. Last ITT to Višarje. This will be madness. Whole Slovenia likely being there.

All in all for cycling fans likely a great GT year ahead.

P.S. As for the national campaigns. There are around eight to twelve medals involved. Before Roglič hangs the bike on the wall. And Roglič in best case scenario needs 4. Other members can take the rest. It's hence time to start collecting them. Contrary to what we did at WC 2022. And failed.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Finally. We can merge Rogličes and Evenepoels threads. In one big emotion.

It will be splendid!!!!

 

[Luthor]

Finally. We can merge Rogličes and Evenepoels threads. In one big emotion.

It will be splendid!!!!

Please don't. The worst thing about this participation in Giro is having Evenepoel's fans around here.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Please don't. The worst thing about this participation in Giro is having Evenepoel's fans around here.

We were the ones who paid Fred Wright. Mwhuhahaha.