Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Gratemans]

It's as though Jumbo staff is trying to win the race.

Well aren't you sassy?

He started his post saying "as a Roglic fan". If he's a Roglic fan, the concern he voiced is valid. No need to be a *** about it.

 

[RedheadDane]

He started his post saying "as a Roglic fan". If he's a Roglic fan, the concern he voiced is valid. No need to be a *** about it.

You can be a fan of a rider, and still understand that sometimes the smartest tactical choice said rider's team is one that doesn't favour - or even works directly against - him (or her).

 

[theyoungest]

Not really, I truly believe he's extremely selfish and is only able to go deep for himself. I've heard multiple people say this around me, might be they are Belgian with a hard on for WVA, but still. I think I've even heard Jose De Cauwer (Belgian commentator) say that once.

Haha, "even José De Cauwer"? Belgian commentators are incredibly nationalistic, De Cauwer is no exception. Everything they say about Roglic is related to how he should have worked for Van Aert at some point. In this year's Tour they had a problem, because Roglic wasn't there. So now Vingegaard became the scapegoat.

Basically, you just can't take anything they say about Roglic' character seriously. I'd even expand that to anything they say about any teammate of Van Aert. Roglic isn't someone who naturally switches to the domestique role in races, but that's mostly because he has just never really had to do it.

 

[Rackham]

You can be a fan of a rider, and still understand that sometimes the smartest tactical choice said rider's team is one that doesn't favour - or even works directly against - him (or her).

When a team has the best mountain sprinter in the race, it makes sense to chase those bonus seconds. Even though Evenepoel has seriously improved his punch, I still reckon Rog can beat him (like on Lo Port in Catalunya).

My 'concern' is this tactic will be neutered because Jumbo might employ tactics similar to those used in the TdF when they let the stages & bonus seconds go to the break (or let UAE do the chasing).

The point is what's good for Vingegaard might not be good for Rog & vice versa. That's the balance Jumbo have to achieve. And Rog getting bonus seconds & stages (which is how he won the 2020 Vuelta)... is good for Jumbo. I hope Niermann & co make the right choices.

 

[theyoungest]

When a team has the best mountain sprinter in the race, it makes sense to chase those bonus seconds. Even though Evenepoel has seriously improved his punch, I still reckon Rog can beat him (like on Lo Port in Catalunya).

My 'concern' is this tactic will be neutered because Jumbo might employ tactics similar to those used in the TdF when they let the stages & bonus seconds go to the break (or let UAE do the chasing).

The point is what's good for Vingegaard might not be good for Rog & vice versa. That's the balance Jumbo have to achieve. And Rog getting bonus seconds & stages (which is how he won the 2020 Vuelta)... is good for Jumbo. I hope Niermann & co make the right choices.

Niermann isn't stupid, unlike what you may think. Of course he knows their respective strengths as well. It just depends on who's their biggest chance to win the race. I think that will become clear soon enough.

Their Tour tactics were spot on, even though you questioned them all along (and when they turned out to be right you simply switched to questioning the validity of Vingegaard's win ) No need to already start doubting them now, before the race even starts.

 

[Netserk]

When a team has the best mountain sprinter in the race, it makes sense to chase those bonus seconds. Even though Evenepoel has seriously improved his punch, I still reckon Rog can beat him (like on Lo Port in Catalunya).

My 'concern' is this tactic will be neutered because Jumbo might employ tactics similar to those used in the TdF when they let the stages & bonus seconds go to the break (or let UAE do the chasing).

The point is what's good for Vingegaard might not be good for Rog & vice versa. That's the balance Jumbo have to achieve. And Rog getting bonus seconds & stages (which is how he won the 2020 Vuelta)... is good for Jumbo. I hope Niermann & co make the right choices.

Pogi makes the difference. He was in the Tour, so not chasing after bonus seconds to be won in sprints made sense. He is not in the Vuelta, so now it makes sense to chase.

In the first week, I think they will set up Rogla to grab bonus seconds, just as if Vingegaard wasn't present. In the second week, the tactics will depend on the GC and how well they are feeling.

 

[Extinction]

Sure you can, when said rider has gone deep for the Tour, has not trained at altitude since his recent victory, and has faced the heavy PR and related demands -- even low-key Jonas-style -- for a TdF winner.

As a single data point, forum participants in the Vuelta poll have a different take. Let's wait and see what happens on the road.

In general, I agree, however, I doubt Jumbo would bring him if they thought he couldn't win. This puts a different take on coming from a dominant Tour, because they must believe he can achieve big things, otherwise why would they bring him at all? It only creates potential problems within the team. Why would Jumbo want to add stress to the Tour or Giro champion? If it's an experiment then that's weird. You'd think after a Tour victory they'd let the guy take it easy for a bit and let the Giro champ, with more time at hand, try and win a fourth Vuelta and the GT team clean sweep. I can thus only imagine Jumbo would not bring a two-time Tour victor with a B- captain status. You put him in the race with the intention he wins it or why bring him at all? Extra training? Test run? That just doesn't seem plausible to me and if it is it's strange.

 

[VeloMaster]

In general, I agree, however, I doubt Jumbo would bring him if they thought he couldn't win. This puts a different take on coming from a dominant Tour, because they must believe he can achieve big things, otherwise why would they bring him at all? It only creates potential problems within the team. Why would Jumbo want to add stress to the Tour or Giro champion? If it's an experiment then that's weird. You'd think after a Tour victory they'd let the guy take it easy for a bit and let the Giro champ, with more time at hand, try and win a fourth Vuelta and the GT team clean sweep. I can thus only imagine Jumbo would not bring a two-time Tour victor with a B- captain status. You put him in the race with the intention he wins it or why bring him at all? Extra training? Test run? That just doesn't seem plausible to me and if it is it's strange.

I agree, it is strange. Jumbo's internal dynamics are opaque.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

I agree, it is strange. Jumbo's internal dynamics are opaque.

You bring him to deter Pogi from coming, Roglinho's cryptonite.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Pogi makes the difference. He was in the Tour, so not chasing after bonus seconds to be won in sprints made sense. He is not in the Vuelta, so now it makes sense to chase.

In the first week, I think they will set up Rogla to grab bonus seconds, just as if Vingegaard wasn't present. In the second week, the tactics will depend on the GC and how well they are feeling.

I think that's the strategy, Roglic rides like Roglic does and hopefully sucks Remco into expending energy competing for bonus seconds. In the meanwhile Vingo waits in the wings.

 

[Oldermanish]

They go in with two leaders, that is clear. The road will decide who among them gets full support, which may be Roglic, although I don't think Vingo would have been brought if Jumbo didn't think he could do a GT double. Was it lack of confidence that Roglic could pull through? I doubt the Slovenian will have been pleased with the ponderous addition to his Vuelta ambitions. I'd like to be a fly on the wall behind Jumbo closed doors.

Consider the possibilities: a) Obvious-two guys put the competition in a more defensive situation b)They may have a confidence issue with Roglic winning but, realistically Jonas is not going to be as fresh and punchy c) Jonas hasn't competed in two GTs in a year and now that he's at at more mature age it's time he gets trained up. His future would suggest he could win two in a year although Tour/Vuelta is not usually the choice d) No Wout for serious mountain attack duty e)All of the above.

Again, a good pro team with this wealth of talent should use it.

 

[Oldermanish]

I agree, it is strange. Jumbo's internal dynamics are opaque.

As they should be.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

You bring him to deter Pogi from coming, Roglinho's cryptonite.

Yup. Pogi is Rogla's kryptonite, Vinge is Pogi's and...Onley is Vinge's.
Therefore, they are hoping that Rogla is Onley's kryptonite!

 

[Extinction]

Consider the possibilities: a) Obvious-two guys put the competition in a more defensive situation b)They may have a confidence issue with Roglic winning but, realistically Jonas is not going to be as fresh and punchy c) Jonas hasn't competed in two GTs in a year and now that he's at at more mature age it's time he gets trained up. His future would suggest he could win two in a year although Tour/Vuelta is not usually the choice d) No Wout for serious mountain attack duty e)All of the above.

Again, a good pro team with this wealth of talent should use it.

Or both have won their season goals and, so, may the best man win.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Primož RogliÄ linked with potential Lidl-Trek move

If the Slovenian star wants another shot at the Tour de France, he'll likely have to switch teams.

escapecollective.com

Just a silly rumour currently, but they would absolutely have the team to support him against the others. I get the impression he would still have a bit of a chance as co-leader where he is, although Vingegaard is stronger now, but it feels like Jumbo-Visma are going to try and steer him away from The Tour.

 

[Lequack]

 

[Berniece]

Primož RogliÄ linked with potential Lidl-Trek move

If the Slovenian star wants another shot at the Tour de France, he'll likely have to switch teams.

escapecollective.com

Just a silly rumour currently, but they would absolutely have the team to support him against the others. I get the impression he would still have a bit of a chance as co-leader where he is, although Vingegaard is stronger now, but it feels like Jumbo-Visma are going to try and steer him away from The Tour.

Depends a bit on his personal goals. If he still really wants to go for a TDF I would leave Jumbo, but if the target is now to set the Vuelta record and win all 7 major stage races, I would stay at JV.

 

[bNator]

Depends a bit on his personal goals. If he still really wants to go for a TDF I would leave Jumbo, but if the target is now to set the Vuelta record and win all 7 major stage races, I would stay at JV.

I know you're trolling by "elegantly" saying in subcontext that Roglic is an undeserving rider and should consider lowering his gols, but let me ask you this. If Roglic, arguably the third best GC rider in the world at the moment, should not target TDF - who should?

 

[Berniece]

I know you're trolling by "elegantly" saying in subcontext that Roglic is an undeserving rider and should consider lowering his gols, but let me ask you this. If Roglic, arguably the third best GC rider in the world at the moment, should not target TDF - who should?

That wasn’t my intention at all… If he wants to try to go for the TDF he should, but I wouldn’t do it at JV due to Vingegaard.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I know you're trolling by "elegantly" saying in subcontext that Roglic is an undeserving rider and should consider lowering his gols, but let me ask you this. If Roglic, arguably the third best GC rider in the world at the moment, should not target TDF - who should?

They’re saying if Roglic really wants to win and race the TdF he needs to do it on another team that would support him 100%. Not be second fiddle to Vinge.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

It's funny how roglic attacked more times in that one stage in TDF when he was work for vingegard, than he did in the entirety of the rest of 2022 and 2023, where he has been leader.

 

[bNator]

They’re saying if Roglic really wants to win and race the TdF he needs to do it on another team that would support him 100%. Not be second fiddle to Vinge.

That wasn’t my intention at all… If he wants to try to go for the TDF he should, but I wouldn’t do it at JV due to Vingegaard.

Well of course he wants, he’s third best GC rider in the world. Contemplating he might be content going for Vueltas and Tour de Suisse is what I find a tad derogatory…

But I agree with the part he should switch teams. The question is - does Roglic fully understand he will be second fiddle in TDF (assuming they let him join)…

 

[Carols]

Pogacar sits on wheels all day and attacks in the final 2k: yes! The Tour de France is saved by the amazingly attacking rider Pogacar!

Roglic sits on a wheel for a while in a 60 k duo attack, cooperates and then goes solo from 8 kms out: boring wheelsucker.

Irony at its best.

Roglič simply knows his strenghts and weaknesess and races accordingly. He knows he has a good kick to the line but on the other hand he cannot keep a gap and extend it the way Vinge does on a MTF. That is why we very rarely see him attack from far out - the only one that comes to mind is Paris Nice 2021 on that first hill-top finish where he won. But he was insanely better than the competition there. He also tried in 2022 in P-N but got caught. So he mostly tries to stick to the first group, spend as little energy as possible and bet on his sprint. He will never be a Vingegaard/Contador/Froome type of rider who blows everyone out of the water 6km to go on a MTF and wins by a minute or two, But because of the way he races he also almost never gets dropped when he is in top form.

Also, the harder the stage before the last climb the worse it is for Roglič. This is why the Vuelta is the best for him with a gazzilion Unipuertos and Giro is the worst GT for him with multiple consecutive 5000m mountain stages.

Yet he won the Giro On an ITT

 

[Carols]

I believe that if Roglic is no longer in contention, he will help Jonas. He did so twice in the 2022 Tour (even if he was unhappy about it).

Yes attacking with broken vertebra wasn't easy even though he made it look easy.

 

[Carols]

Well of course he wants, he’s third best GC rider in the world. Contemplating he might be content going for Vueltas and Tour de Suisse is what I find a tad derogatory…

But I agree with the part he should switch teams. The question is - does Roglic fully understand he will be second fiddle in TDF (assuming they let him join)…

To who? He's the 3rd best GT rider and 1st 1 week rider. Who will he play second fiddle on besides TJV and UAE?