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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Extinction said:
Having placed second in the Tour doesn't change that.
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If Rogla would be second at the Tour and any other mentioned cyclist would win Giro-Vuelta double. It would be a done deal for that other cyclist. So in my opinion no special reason for not to recognize the same thing when it comes to Rogla. Generally speaking.

On top of that lets not forget on how rare a double is. JV being in such position with two cyclists. That is on why historically speaking no other team has achieve what JV might achieve this year. A triple GT crown.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

Jan 8, 2020
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CyclistAbi said:
If Rogla would be second at the Tour and any other mentioned cyclist would win Giro-Vuelta double. It would be a done deal for that other cyclist. So in my opinion no special reason for not to recognize the same thing when it comes to Rogla. Generally speaking.

On top of that lets not forget on how rare a double is. JV being in such position with two cyclists. That is on why historically speaking no other team has achieve what JV might achieve this year. A triple GT crown.
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To the bolded, you honestly have me confused here. Are you saying Roglic's second at the Tour would be worth more than say a Hindley Giro-Tour double? I would agree, because Primoz is better than Jai. The problem is Jonas is better than Primoz. In the absence of Vingegaard, Roglic's focus would first be the Tour, that this isn't the case is telling.
 
SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

Aug 13, 2011
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VayaVayaVaya said:
I don’t 100% disagree with you here. I would say that he also looked great on Lo Port though. I know it was a single climb outside a GC, but they were huge numbers, and he beat Remco, who went all out for it. His climbing outside the MTT and the short climb on stage 8 was pretty underwhelming, I agree, but tough to know how much if that is due to his crash.

If I were a betting man, I would say that Roglic would have been behind Pogacar for most of the Tour but finished second behind Vingegaard by less than 5 minutes. Just a pure guess, though. So I would put Roglic over Pogi in GC rankings for 2023 if he wins the Vuelta. However, I think without the wrist injury Pogi still would have lost but not collapsed, so maybe 3 minutes back. Again, total guess.
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Without the Giro I’d have Roglic 0-3 mins in front of Adam, with the Giro I’d think he’d finish 5th to 10th.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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There's no way Rog doesn't put a heap of time into Yates at the Tour without having ridden the Giro. I struggle to see Pog putting the minutes into Roglic that he loses on Loze. Also Jumbo probably don't go nuts on Tourmalet if it drops Rog, or at least they wait if Vingegaards attack only drops Rog but not Pog.
 
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topcat

topcat

Jul 4, 2016
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I’m not sure I’m following this.
Roglic should not have won the Giro so he could have had a chance at 2nd place at the tour because Pog bonked due to the wrist and then ppl on a forum could claim Rog was better than Pog?
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

Aug 13, 2011
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Red Rick said:
There's no way Rog doesn't put a heap of time into Yates at the Tour without having ridden the Giro. I struggle to see Pog putting the minutes into Roglic that he loses on Loze. Also Jumbo probably don't go nuts on Tourmalet if it drops Rog, or at least they wait if Vingegaards attack only drops Rog but not Pog.
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Like he put time into him in Burgos? Like he put time into Thomas and Almedia? Like he’s put time into anyone he’s beat? I fail to see where Roglic gains time if Jumbo ride slower to help him. Then Adam doesn’t get dropped as soon or at all.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

Jan 8, 2020
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SHAD0W93 said:
Like he put time into him in Burgos? Like he put time into Thomas and Almedia? Like he’s put time into anyone he’s beat? I feel to see where Roglic giants time if Jumbo ride slower to help him. Then Adam doesn’t get dropped as soon or at all.
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That's not his style. He only makes big attacks against Evenepoel.
 
Blanco

Blanco

Jun 6, 2017
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Extinction said:
To the bolded, you honestly have me confused here. Are you saying Roglic's second at the Tour would be worth more than say a Hindley Giro-Tour double? I would agree, because Primoz is better than Jai. The problem is Jonas is better than Primoz. In the absence of Vingegaard, Roglic's focus would first be the Tour, that this isn't the case is telling.
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But if Hindley wins the double, how is Primoz better? What he has to show which is close to that? Tirreno? Catalunya? I don't think so...
Truth is you're as good as you're last season is.
Take Van Aert for example. Last year everyone rate him equal if not even higher than Van Der Poel. That will not be the case anymore.., at least till he proves otherwise.
So to conclude, if Primoz Roglic wins the Vuelta, he not only is the GC rider of the year, but very well THE RIDER of the year, or at least it would be a tight battle with Van Der Poel.
And I too agree that Vingegaard level is probably higher, but you just can't argue with such results.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

Jan 8, 2020
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Blanco said:
But if Hindley wins the double, how is Primoz better? What he has to show which is close to that? Tirreno? Catalunya? I don't think so...
Truth is you're as good as you're last season is.
Take Van Aert for example. Last year everyone rate him equal if not even higher than Van Der Poel. That will not be the case anymore.., at least till he proves otherwise.
So to conclude, if Primoz Roglic wins the Vuelta, he not only is the GC rider of the year, but very well THE RIDER of the year, or at least it would be a tight battle with Van Der Poel.
And I too agree that Vingegaard level is probably higher, but you just can't argue with such results.
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Because the Tour is on a whole different level. Look at what happened to Hindley on the Tourmalet. He was utterly destroyed. Primoz on form would not have been dropped, I don't think. At any rate, the point is moot, because Hindley isn't winning the Giro-Vuelta double and isn't coming second in the Tour. As far as Vingo is concerned, yes you can argue it, because he crushed the Tour. His victory trumps a possible Primoz Giro-Vuelta double, because the Tour level is higher than both. And no way Roglic could have beat the Vingo of the Tour in the last Tour, whereas Vingo's Tour level would certainly net him the Giro and Vuelta. By contrast, Roglic's Giro level was only a podium at the Tour.
 
bajbar

bajbar

Apr 14, 2014
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Extinction said:
To the bolded, you honestly have me confused here. Are you saying Roglic's second at the Tour would be worth more than say a Hindley Giro-Tour double? I would agree, because Primoz is better than Jai. The problem is Jonas is better than Primoz. In the absence of Vingegaard, Roglic's focus would first be the Tour, that this isn't the case is telling.
Click to expand...

I think it was meant to be a representation that people tend to undervalue Roglič's achievements. As in - Pog was 2nd at the Tour and hypothetically Rog wins Giro-Vuelta - people have a hard time deciding who would have a better season. But if it was the other way around, people would proclaim Pog's achivement legendary and Rogs 2nd place in the Tour would not mean much. At least that is how I understood it.

And to compare achivements - who would you say had a better season in 2008. Contador, Sastre or Evans?
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Extinction said:
To the bolded, you honestly have me confused here. Are you saying Roglic's second at the Tour would be worth more than say a Hindley Giro-Tour double?
Click to expand...

Nop. What i am saying is in such case Roglič finishing second at the Tour would stand no chance against Hindley winning Giro-Vuelta double.

Extinction said:
At any rate, the point is moot, because Hindley isn't winning the Giro-Vuelta double ...
Click to expand...

I agree. At least not this season.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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noob said:
I'd say the other way around 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Nobody will look happy in this setting, a boring interview with journalists.

But because Roglic never says anything interesting, his fans will look for signs everywhere about how he's really feeling. I think we just have to accept that Roglic rarely shows that, if ever.
 
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D

Divergence

Feb 27, 2023
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It is funny how a lot of people here are convinced that Jonas is so much better than Rogla. I do not think that Jonas has surpassed Rogla, and I believe Rogla will demonstrate his superiority during this Vuelta.
Of course some will still not like him, but that is neither here nor there.
 
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Nick2413

Dec 2, 2020
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Divergence said:
It is funny how a lot of people here are convinced that Jonas is so much better than Rogla. I do not think that Jonas has surpassed Rogla, and I believe Rogla will demonstrate his superiority during this Vuelta.
Of course some will still not like him, but that is neither here nor there.
Click to expand...
Beating Vingegaard in the Vuelta is very different to beating him in the Tour. Vingegaard is a step above Pogacar at GTs and Pogacar is a step above Roglic.
 
Carols

Carols

Mar 20, 2010
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Divergence said:
It is funny how a lot of people here are convinced that Jonas is so much better than Rogla. I do not think that Jonas has surpassed Rogla, and I believe Rogla will demonstrate his superiority during this Vuelta.
Of course some will still not like him, but that is neither here nor there.
Click to expand...
Jonas is better in the mountains at altitude. Otherwise, they are even or Rogla is a bit better IMO. Amazing that TJV has both these guys.
I like that team considers Primoz king. He made them and they recognize that.
 
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