Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Blanco]

If they're together in the same group at that stage he should absolutely do that.

The real complexity is if there's attacks and the group is grinded down to 20 guys, and there's no other Slovenians outside of Pog and Rog.

He might follow the attacks, but he won't drag the whole group for Pogacar.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Bad day today like in 2019, IMO in a great day the bronze medal was definitely posible, but coming straight after a GT + some rest was always a risk and could go eitherway in the first race day and more even in such a specific one.

Anyway, I think this tell us nothing regarding next Sunday and even less for the Italian classics.

 

[entre nous]

He

Costly how exactly?

The way he talked about it implied he thinks this is better for the road race cause he may not wanna go 3 weeks without racing before the road race. In additino, there's a full week between the TT and the RR now, unlike previously

It was a humiliation, not only Ganna passing him at the end but being faster on ascents! - not sure how this can help him psychologically for the next races!
More crucially - this underperformance binds his hands for the RR. No way he will be forgiven to ride (and fail) for his own ambitions! And if, as he is now bound to do, the help he offers to TP does not bring the arc-de-ciel to the nation, he will be blamed for not giving enough (as others observed). Loose-loose.

 

[Sciatic]

He

It was a humiliation, not only Ganna passing him at the end but being faster on ascents! - not sure how this can help him psychologically for the next races!
More crucially - this underperformance binds his hands for the RR. No way he will be forgiven to ride (and fail) for his own ambitions! And if, as he is now bound to do, the help he offers to TP does not bring the arc-de-ciel to the nation, he will be blamed for not giving enough (as others observed). Loose-loose.

Elite athletes, particularly someone who’s been through as much as Roglic has, are simply not that psychologically fragile. He has shrugged off a LOT of bad luck and crashes only to bounce back and keep winning. This is a mere blip in a successful season. He may not have the legs/form to hang with the best in the road race, but if he doesn’t perform it won’t have anything to do with his performance in the TT.

 

[Oldermanish]

I called it last week. It's like Pog finishing 3 minutes down in Glasgow last year.

It's one of those races during the year where we just know Rog has no chance. It happens. No biggie.

I expect nothing next Sunday either. If there's a race which is actually 'on his radar', it'll be Lombardia. But even that is a real longshot.

He's on a somewhat less painful recovery phase from early season than Vindegaard, I'd guess. The Vuelta had to have stressed him but this TT was clearly him testing his limits. If he was pushing then he might consider going back to training for Lombardia. If he was doing a sound check before hitting power chords on the RR stage; he might be still be able to deafen his constant critics, Joe Walsh style.

 

[red_flanders]

He

It was a humiliation, not only Ganna passing him at the end but being faster on ascents! - not sure how this can help him psychologically for the next races!
More crucially - this underperformance binds his hands for the RR. No way he will be forgiven to ride (and fail) for his own ambitions! And if, as he is now bound to do, the help he offers to TP does not bring the arc-de-ciel to the nation, he will be blamed for not giving enough (as others observed). Loose-loose.

Uh...that seems like a total overreaction. Yeah he got smoked in the TT. So what.

Slovenia would be nuts not to use him to full effect. You simply can't let Roglič go and not mark him. I don't think a smart plan from them ever had him fully racing for his own ambitions. They have 2 guys who can win, and should use them that way. They can put a ton of pressure on the other teams. Not sure how you really can beat them if they're smart, TBH. Roglič is a huge threat in the RR.

 

[Oldermanish]

Uh...that seems like a total overreaction. Yeah he got smoked in the TT. So what.

Slovenia would be nuts not to use him to full effect. You simply can't let Roglič go and not mark him. I don't think a smart plan from them ever had him fully racing for his own ambitions. They have 2 guys who can win, and should use them that way. They can put a ton of pressure on the other teams. Not sure how you really can beat them if they're smart, TBH. Roglič is a huge threat in the RR.

His honest effort and how it applies to the RR is important. He and the Slovenian team should be honest as he goes through prep this week and, IMO it's no shock he came out flat after cramming a season into the Vuelta. I mean, Vingegard sent us all a postcard from vacation after putting himself through Visma's Tour ringer to finish the race. Thank God that team sponsor's got their pound of flesh.
Whether he can produce the effort to help Tadej or himself will be judged on each lap of the RR. This doesn't seem like a situation where he might downplay good form but that's always hard to tell with the Slovenian Sphinx.

 

[Rackham]

He

It was a humiliation, not only Ganna passing him at the end but being faster on ascents! - not sure how this can help him psychologically for the next races!
More crucially - this underperformance binds his hands for the RR. No way he will be forgiven to ride (and fail) for his own ambitions! And if, as he is now bound to do, the help he offers to TP does not bring the arc-de-ciel to the nation, he will be blamed for not giving enough (as others observed). Loose-loose.

This is a massive overreaction. Did anyone say Pog was humiliated in the Glasgow ITT last year? No.

It's an atypical event.

 

[Rackham]

He's on a somewhat less painful recovery phase from early season than Vindegaard, I'd guess. The Vuelta had to have stressed him but this TT was clearly him testing his limits. If he was pushing then he might consider going back to training for Lombardia. If he was doing a sound check before hitting power chords on the RR stage; he might be still be able to deafen his constant critics, Joe Walsh style.

I don't think Rog was joking on Saturday when he said after the course recon he was a little less happy about his decision to ride the ITT than before. It was one of Rog's typical dry witty remarks, where he basically said "oops, this is going to suck".

And he was right. That route had nothing for him. Also having Ganna breath down his neck the entire time was a real killer *insert Sean Kelly voice*.

I'm glad Ganna didn't win actually. Not that I have anything against him but if he'd won due to drafting behind Rog on the finish straight, Evenepoel (& his fans) would have gone nuclear with a meltdown.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm glad Ganna didn't win actually. Not that I have anything against him but if he'd won due to drafting behind Rog on the finish straight, Evenepoel (& his fans) would have gone nuclear with a meltdown.

It would have glorious. True legendary moment of ciclismo

 

[tobydawq]

It certainly seems a bizarre decision to race the time trial, especially with recent injuries, but I'll never hate on a rider for wanting to race

Escuse me but haven't you often criticised riders like Wout and Remco when they attack on random stages for showing off?

 

[tobydawq]

It would have glorious. True legendary moment of ciclismo

Nah.

 

[Berniece]

And... why on earth would he do that?

Yates and Majka are paid by UAE to do that. What's Rog getting? A sense of national duty? I mean this doesn't make any sense. People always get so hung up about teammates sacrificing themselves in cycling but the Worlds are different. Especially when you're talking about Rog and Pog. And anyway Rog has been on the receiving end of the other side of that argument, i.e. when he got dogpiled for not pulling enough for his Jumbo teammate Van Aert in Imola.

So there's always going to be some p*ssed off group at the Worlds, aka drama junkies who erect 'teamwork' and sacrifice for the leader as the sine qua non of pro cycling at all costs (with the high priest of teamwork aka Chris Horner always ready to pounce when someone transgresses the 'code'), national fans who want the gold at all costs and will dogpile Rog if Pog doesn't win it and then fans from the countries of his Red Bull teammates who might think he didn't repay some of the work those guys did for him in the Vuelta by pulling for them in the Worlds (it's happened before, aka the aforementioned Van Aert debacle).

Long story short, I don't like the World Championships.

So basically Roglic doesn't have to help anyone, and only has to ride for himself?

 

[Wyndbrook]

And... why on earth would he do that?

Yates and Majka are paid by UAE to do that. What's Rog getting? A sense of national duty? I mean this doesn't make any sense. People always get so hung up about teammates sacrificing themselves in cycling but the Worlds are different. Especially when you're talking about Rog and Pog. And anyway Rog has been on the receiving end of the other side of that argument, i.e. when he got dogpiled for not pulling enough for his Jumbo teammate Van Aert in Imola.

So there's always going to be some p*ssed off group at the Worlds, aka drama junkies who erect 'teamwork' and sacrifice for the leader as the sine qua non of pro cycling at all costs (with the high priest of teamwork aka Chris Horner always ready to pounce when someone transgresses the 'code'), national fans who want the gold at all costs and will dogpile Rog if Pog doesn't win it and then fans from the countries of his Red Bull teammates who might think he didn't repay some of the work those guys did for him in the Vuelta by pulling for them in the Worlds (it's happened before, aka the aforementioned Van Aert debacle).

Long story short, I don't like the World Championships.

I really like the worlds, especially when a plan really comes together.
Wach the Italian women all committ to the team with no egos and beat the more talented, but dysfunctional, Dutch teams.
Then all the riders coming to the podium presentation to support their winner. What it's all about.

 

[Rackham]

So basically Roglic doesn't have to help anyone, and only has to ride for himself?

Yep. What will people do? Call the police if he doesn't pull for Pog?

I mean who cares. It's just the Worlds. I don't let the 'national teams' angle fool me, i.e. at the end of the day there's only one winner. The team won't become world champion, Pog will (if he wins, that is). And it's UAE who get the rainbow stripes in their team.

When people use the cutesy 'there's no I in team' when pushing for the ultra teamwork aspect (especially in the UCI World Championships) they forget there's absolutely an I... in winner.

 

[Berniece]

Yep. What will people do? Call the police if he doesn't pull for Pog?

I mean who cares. It's just the Worlds. I don't let the 'national teams' angle fool me, i.e. at the end of the day there's only one winner. The team won't become world champion, Pog will (if he wins, that is). And it's UAE who get the rainbow stripes in their team.

When people use the cutesy 'there's no I in team' when pushing for the ultra teamwork aspect (especially in the UCI World Championships) they forget there's absolutely an I... in winner.

No one will call the police, but don't throw a hissy fit when people call Roglic a selfish rider that only thinks about himself.

If you don't want to put in the work to help your teammate win the race, then don't participate. Say clearly beforehand, I'm only riding for myself no one else. I don't expect help from my national team, who wants to go for Pogacar. And if for some ridiculous reason, the national coach still selects you, you can do your own thing.

 

[Rackham]

No one will call the police, but don't throw a hissy fit when people call Roglic a selfish rider that only thinks about himself.

If you don't want to put in the work to help your teammate win the race, then don't participate. Say clearly beforehand, I'm only riding for myself no one else. I don't expect help from my national team, who wants to go for Pogacar. And if for some ridiculous reason, the national coach still selects you, you can do your own thing.

It's funny to me how suddenly there's scores of people who care so much about Pog.

I mean this is Tadej Pogačar we're talking about. He's a big boy who can handle himself.

 

[Berniece]

It's funny to me how suddenly there's scores of people who care so much about Pog.

I mean this is Tadej Pogačar we're talking about. He's a big boy who can handle himself.

First of all, that has nothing to do with it. It's about defending your nations colours, and if you don't want to ride as a team, then stay at home.

Secondly, Pogacar needs a hard race to win. Why didn't he win in Quebec? Because it wasn't hard enough. He could use the help of Roglic to make it as hard as possible.

 

[Rackham]

First of all, that has nothing to do with it. It's about defending your nations colours

It's far more ambiguous than that and you know it.

There's always been a lot of leeway in terms of teammate behavior, especially overlapping with a rider's pro-team and his real teammates in the race. There's a very long history of riders pulling for guys who aren't in their national team just because they're teammates all year long.

In fact it was that exact premise which caused the Imola meltdowns 4 years ago. So no, the way I see it is there's always the usual bunch of people online sharpening their knives ready to call Rog selfish or something because... reasons. I guess it's a hobby for some people.

They're the ones who'll suddenly become 'concerned' with how Pog's teammates ride for him on Sunday just because it gives them a stick to beat Rog with.

 

[Berniece]

So no, the way I see it is there's always the usual bunch of people online sharpening their knives ready to call Rog selfish or something because... reasons. I guess it's a hobby for some people.

Sure, if that's your take on all of this, go ahead. Maybe people just see it differently and do think being part of the national team is important, and it's not just everyone for himself.

 

[Rackham]

Sure, if that's your take on all of this, go ahead. Maybe people just see it differently and do think being part of the national team is important, and it's not just everyone for himself.

I'll throw the most extreme example into this argument just for the sake of it, i.e. here goes: Lipowitz is going solo to the line on Sunday. Rog is asked to pull for Pog because Pog has a better flat sprint from a small bunch.

What does he do? Someone is going to be p*ssed off no matter what happens.

 

[Berniece]

I'll throw the most extreme example into this argument just for the sake of it, i.e. here goes: Lipowitz is going solo to the line on Sunday. Rog is asked to pull for Pog because Pog has a better flat sprint from a small bunch.

What does he do? Someone is going to be p*ssed off no matter what happens.

He has to pull, everyone will understand. It's his job, he's part of the national team. He's wearing his nation's colours.

 

[Rackham]

He has to pull, everyone will understand. It's his job, he's part of the national team. He's wearing his nation's colours.

That's not the end of it. He pulls, Lipowitz is pulled back... and Pog gets beaten in the sprint. Hooray I guess.

I realize this is pretty outlandish scenario and it likely won't happen that way, but like I said, the Worlds are not cut and dry. There's ambiguity.

 

[Berniece]

That's not the end of it. He pulls, Lipowitz is pulled back... and Pog gets beaten in the sprint. Hooray I guess.

I realize this is pretty outlandish scenario and it likely won't happen that way, but like I said, the Worlds are not cut and dry. There's ambiguity.

It could definitely happen. But so what? Roglic was completely in his right to get Lipowitz back. He can sleep sound that night. If he wouldn't and Pogacar wins the sprint for place two, he will be spit out.

 

[Mako]

First of all, that has nothing to do with it. It's about defending your nations colours, and if you don't want to ride as a team, then stay at home.

Secondly, Pogacar needs a hard race to win. Why didn't he win in Quebec? Because it wasn't hard enough. He could use the help of Roglic to make it as hard as possible.

Lol, why are you so emotional about this. A nation is just a random concept actually with a lot of luck involved. Why do you have to be proud etc. - that's all a load of bull.

Frankly, I doubt Pog will care what Rog does.