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Cycling111

Apr 13, 2025
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So we'd have to put everything into context in 2020.
In 2020, Pogacar was in his second season and making his Tour de France debut at 21. Roglic was a cyclist at his peak.

In the 2020 Tour, Pogacar finishes the Tour with five teammates:
UAE Team Emirates (WT)
(Fabio ARU DNF stage9, Formolo stage11)

Roglic with:

Team Jumbo-Visma (WT)
Pogacar was almost a neopro and won a TDF without team.
Talking about Roglic's disadvantages compared to Pogacar in 2020 doesn't make much sense.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Cycling111 said:
So we'd have to put everything into context in 2020.
In 2020, Pogacar was in his second season and making his Tour de France debut. Roglic was a cyclist at his peak.

In the 2020 Tour, Pogacar finishes the Tour with five teammates:
UAE Team Emirates (WT)
(Fabio ARU DNF stage9, Formolo stage11)

Roglic with:

Team Jumbo-Visma (WT)

Pogacar was almost a neopro and won a TDF without team.
Talking about Roglic's disadvantages compared to Pogacar in 2020 doesn't make much sense.
Click to expand...
Roglic rode way too conservative and passive. Got into some false security and likely a bit of arrogance from the team, that they had already won it.

That Pog had been so good in the penultimate stage of the Vuelta the year before should have been some sort of ominous sign, that it aint over until it is over. He had shown his recovery is good towards the end of a GT is my point.

He had also done well in Algarve ITT, winning national title twice in the ITT and beating Roglic there. They had been warned.
 
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Cycling111

Apr 13, 2025
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Salvarani said:
Roglic rode way too conservative and passive. Got into some false security and likely a bit of arrogance from the team, that they had already won it.

That Pog had been so good in the penultimate stage of the Vuelta the year before should have been some sort of ominous sign, that it aint over until it is over. He had shown his recovery is good towards the end of a GT is my point.

He had also done well in Algarve ITT, winning national title twice in the ITT and beating Roglic there. They had been warned.
Click to expand...
But Pogacar is undervalued when he won the Tour with that rubish team :tearsofjoy: as a roockie.

That's why I don't see the point in making excuses for Roglic that year. Roglic's rival was a second-year rider, making his Tour de France debut at 21 and with a crappy team.
We shouldn't take away Roglic's merits or justify his defeat; we should value what Pogacar did beyond the ITT. Pogacar didn't win the TDF like Bernal did in 2019, dominating the race at Sky and with a teammate finishing second. He did alone against the dominant team.
Just as winning the Giro-Tour is being undervalued now, saying that Roglic does it to reach 100% by winning the Giro at 95%.

No. Winning the Giro has never been the best way to reach the Tour at 100%.
That's why everyone who has achieved it has done so young and in their peak. Being too young or too old, except Coppi (Coppi was the absolute favorite for that Tour) , no one has attempted or achieved it because of how difficult it is.

But Roglic is much more realistic than some of the comments.
Roglic is a winner, but he went to Zurich to be a domestique at the road world championships.
Because he was a realist, and with that realism, I'm convinced his goal is to win the Giro d'Italia. He doesn't think his best chance of winning the Tour is this year by doing the Giro-Tour.

Roglic did a great Tour; it's not fair to say he didn't.
We must give credit to what Pogacar did.
 
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Cycling111

Apr 13, 2025
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Roglic has had the same bad luck as Poulidor. First, he had Anquetil as a rival, then Merckx.

Carlos Sastre won a TDF that didn't have any dominators; the second was Evans, who has only won one Tour.
Also G. Thomas, he was able to win the Tour at the end of Froome's dominance and before new dominators appeared.

Rominger,Poulidor or Roglic have been better than Sastre and G. Thomas,but they had the worst possible rivals.
Maybe Roglic´s Tour was the 2019 one; he was 29 years and the level of that TDF was questionable considering that Alaphilippe hasn´t been in the top5 of any other GT, and the third was an Roglic´s domestique.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Cycling111 said:
So we'd have to put everything into context in 2020.
In 2020, Pogacar was in his second season and making his Tour de France debut at 21. Roglic was a cyclist at his peak.

In the 2020 Tour, Pogacar finishes the Tour with five teammates:
UAE Team Emirates (WT)
(Fabio ARU DNF stage9, Formolo stage11)

Roglic with:

Team Jumbo-Visma (WT)
Pogacar was almost a neopro and won a TDF without team.
Talking about Roglic's disadvantages compared to Pogacar in 2020 doesn't make much sense.
Click to expand...
It makes all the sense when people have blamed Pogacars Liege crash for - and I kid you not - worst career form in Lombardia
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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"For sure, I remember the first training ride when Primož joined us," Tratnik, a fourth-year pro at the time, says. "We did a recon of the Tour of Slovenia route and Primož still raced as an amateur amateur so he just joined us for that training ride. But it didn't end well because during the training ride, he dropped us all, so we all ended up asking 'Who is this guy?'
Click to expand...

"So I just put on all the clothes I possibly could, whatever I had, and then I went there. When I got there, I remember the guys maybe just had socks over their shoes and that was it, small things like that that looked really cool and professional. As for me, I'd just put on 'full' – I was wearing whatever I could find at home, I put all of it on, and I wore that!

"Then immediately when we started riding, I was already at the back, not allowed to do anything, just sitting at the back of the group. ***, I remember it was 30kph and I was exploding, thinking 'I can't hold this' and 'Why am I doing this? Maybe it's not such a good idea."
Click to expand...

www.cyclingnews.com

'It's possible' - Primož Roglič and Jan Tratnik on reuniting and why they think the Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe star can win another Giro d'Italia

Tratnik operating as team captain role for first time alongside longstanding friend and compatriot
www.cyclingnews.com www.cyclingnews.com
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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All in all Tour 2020 was just one Tour edition and since then Rogla DNF or wasn't selected. Some likely base their opinion on that fact, on how supposedly only Pogi and Jonas are a factor at the Tour. Time to bust that myth but lets do Giro first, shall we! Really looking forward to it, brand new and strong team and being in a good place agin, "JV vibes", maybe better? We'll see.
 
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Roku

Aug 1, 2016
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Cycling111 said:
Roglic has had the same bad luck as Poulidor. First, he had Anquetil as a rival, then Merckx.

Carlos Sastre won a TDF that didn't have any dominators; the second was Evans, who has only won one Tour.
Also G. Thomas, he was able to win the Tour at the end of Froome's dominance and before new dominators appeared.

Rominger,Poulidor or Roglic have been better than Sastre and G. Thomas,but they had the worst possible rivals.
Maybe Roglic´s Tour was the 2019 one; he was 29 years and the level of that TDF was questionable considering that Alaphilippe hasn´t been in the top5 of any other GT, and the third was an Roglic´s domestique.
Click to expand...

Lots of what ifs, honestly. You could also argue that Roglic only could defeat an ageing G.Thomas by less than 30" in 2023 Giro. Thing is the one week Roglic and the Vuelta Roglic has never translated into a Tour or Giro Roglic.
 
Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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VayaVayaVaya said:
Anyone have an explanation for why no one factors in Roglic crashing and abandoning in the 2020 Dauphine into his loss to Pogacar, but they do factor in every injury for Remco, Vingegaard, and Pogacar?
Click to expand...

We have a perfect example with the following post:

Roku said:
Lots of what ifs, honestly. You could also argue that Roglic only could defeat an ageing G.Thomas by less than 30" in 2023 Giro. Thing is the one week Roglic and the Vuelta Roglic has never translated into a Tour or Giro Roglic.
Click to expand...

Rog was injured in the crash that took out TG Hart. He literally had a huge gash in his thigh. I believe it was Thomas Gloag who later said he could even go up or down the stairs afterwards.

Point being: his narrow win over G Thomas in that Giro was not reflective of the actual level difference between both riders. Thomas was also having some of the best form of his career in that Giro as well, certainly over anything since 2019.
 
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