Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Rou]

Roglič is a simple employee, like everybody else. Good paid one yes, but that's it. He will do what bosses say and bosses want him in TdF. Hell i think Rog also wants to go there.

I also think he wants to do the Tour but he is not just an employee. For example if Redbull terminate his contract he will find a new team in a heartbeat. The only way Bora can force Roglic to do the TDF is if it is written in his contract as a clause.

 

[Rackham]

Also, teams don't care about crash statistics. They just don't. We see time and time again Denk mentioning how strong Rog is. That's all they see, numbers.

They want a podium in the Tour and I'm pretty convinced Rog does as well. So the goal is totally achievable.

 

[Luthor]

He can crash in Suisse race and not start TdF. That would be even worse then start TdF and crash there. Plus he's hurt, he needs time to recover and there will be no real time to prepare for Suisse AND TdF. I have very little hope for TdF anyway. He won't make it without crashing and when he crashes...well, it's over again.

That's true but his rate of crashes in WT stage races is far lower than GTs. He can't just avoid any race because of that.

 

[Red Rick]

Also, teams don't care about crash statistics. They just don't. We see time and time again Denk mentioning how strong Rog is. That's all they see, numbers.

They want a podium in the Tour and I'm pretty convinced Rog does as well. So the goal is totally achievable.

They care about results, and crashes are results. But when he doesn't he's a top 5 rider in the world and that's a lot more valuable than the 30th best rider who falls off his bicycle less often.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Not sure how Roglic would have done today, but presumably his plan was to do exactly what Yates did…wait for Finestre and smash all opposition. Good reminder that Roglic was no where close to our even 3 minutes down. Yates is going to win by over 3 minutes despite starting 1:21 down at the start of the stage. Had Roglic been healthy he could have done a Nibali/Froome for sure

 

[Rackham]

Not sure how Roglic would have done today, but presumably his plan was to do exactly what Yates did…wait for Finestre and smash all opposition. Good reminder that Roglic was no where close to our even 3 minutes down. Yates is going to win by over 3 minutes despite starting 1:21 down at the start of the stage. Had Roglic been healthy he could have done a Nibali/Froome for sure

There's still time do do a Simon Yates in the TdF.

Being the third guy behind Pog and Vinge could open up similar possibilities for Rog providing the gap is still manageable.

I won't talk about Finestre though and I won't speculate what Rog could have done either. It's a 60 minute climb and Yates on his day has dropped Rog before.

 

[acm]

There's still time do do a Simon Yates in the TdF.

Being the third guy behind Pog and Vinge could open up similar possibilities for Rog providing the gap is still manageable.

I won't talk about Finestre though and I won't speculate what Rog could have done either. It's a 60 minute climb and Yates on his day has dropped Rog before.

I wish, but Pogačar would never let Roglič ride away like that. Or more precisely, his ego.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic? Today?

Comon guys, we shouldn't care really. It all depends on every stage before anyway.

 

[Rackham]

I wish, but Pogačar would never let Roglič ride away like that. Or more precisely, his ego.

Now is exactly the time to wish.

Seriously, it's that time of year when we're a month or so out from the Tour when we ask the tooth fairy for something nice for Rog.

No harm in wishful thinking. Also, let's hope Visma stealing the Giro from UAE on the final day makes their rivalry even more explosive in July.

And this next part only partly relates to Rog but a special shout out should go to Chris Harper as well for his stage win today. He was always a super loyal teammate (especially in that ill-fated 2022 Vuelta). Well done to him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Roglic will lose 2 minutes in every mountain stage.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic will lose 2 minutes in every mountain stage.

He didn't lose 2 minutes in any mountain stage of the Tour last year.

 

[Oldman]

Not sure how Roglic would have done today, but presumably his plan was to do exactly what Yates did…wait for Finestre and smash all opposition. Good reminder that Roglic was no where close to our even 3 minutes down. Yates is going to win by over 3 minutes despite starting 1:21 down at the start of the stage. Had Roglic been healthy he could have done a Nibali/Froome for sure

Doesn't matter though, does it? His best shot is drawing confidence on his preparation and apply it to the Tour or some other target. He seems good at moving on and he probably won't dwell on this outcome.
By the way, Yates has left him in the gap several times before so it's not a given he would've beaten him. That gravel ascent must've been something. I hope to see it when highlights allow it!

 

[Berniece]

There's still time do do a Simon Yates in the TdF.

Being the third guy behind Pog and Vinge could open up similar possibilities for Rog providing the gap is still manageable.

Difference is that Pog and Vingegaard will be better than Roglic, while I’m not so sure that was the case for Carapaz and Del Toro today.

 

[Red Rick]

Difference is that Pog and Vingegaard will be better than Roglic, while I’m not so sure that was the case for Carapaz and Del Toro today.

I doubt it. In the end, Finestre was a fresh 1 hour effort, which he's done very well at historically. What would actually happen is like 15 layers of "it depends"

 

[CyclistAbi]

Would be great if Rogla could be there today, competing, as this was another Giro stage 20 for the ages, just like the 2023 edition was. I am sure that the result would be rather similar. Still, i am sure that there will be other opportunities at Giro involved in the future and besides, there is Tour now!

 

[CyclistAbi]

The reaction to his travails really became clear to me the other day when someone described him as 'like Princess Diana but to Slovenian's'.

I'd make a comment about crashing but don't want to get banned, so I'll just say this; Fly high Rog, The Queen of Hearts.

It's interesting, on how Meghan and Kate wanted to cosplay Lady Di, on how that never really took off, Rogla indeed being more naturally talented in this regard. Like Lady Di, only with a bit lower vocals. As for your selection of Elton and Rog flying high, IMHO much more suited, just look at the moves and it has, one could say, certain level of stomp to it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC_kCnm3GYQ

1-Roglic is a bad bike handler. That's a fact.

2-Roglic have a lot of bad luck. That's also true. Unfortunately, not all of the slovenian riders can have a lot of luck.

3-Yes, sometimes the crashes are GTs organizers fault, for choosing bad routes.

It's a bit of all of this reasons who can explain a lot of crashes.

Nah, Roglič is not a bad bike handler and it's not bad luck. That is no way are you a bad bike handler winning stage races on a WT level. For that you need to have superior bike handling skills and Rogla has them. In past half a decade he won 5 GTs, was a runner up and finished third twice, won 6 out of 7 week long stage races, some on multiple occasions, monument winner and podium finisher, ITT Olympic champion ... Having bad bike handling skills would never ever win you all that. As for bad luck, pro road cycling is a group sport and on most GTs, on where Rogla DNF, he was not the weakest link in that group, fault was more or less always an outside factor. Then we more or less understand that cycling is currently a bit of a crash fest, in general, for example top 5 out of top 6 riders coming to Tour mid to high, when it comes to severity of the injury recovering from. Pogi for now with least amount of such issues, still crashed both at Giro 24 and SB 25. So it's not bad luck, it's more of a guarantee. Now if you take the share amount of stage races Rogla has done, it's a guarantee he would crash/injure at some. NOBODY can avoid that. So it's not just the number of wins, when it comes to stage racing and on where Rogla is ahead, it's the number of participations at such events, guarantees of crashes/injuries, on where Rogla leads ATM too, Rogla is the toughest, other members of top 6 rather pale in comparison.

Most of Roglic's crashes this giro wasn't caught on camera so it's hard to determine who's fault it was.

So far and the ones that usually got him to abandon a GT, that was normally not his fault.

Why are we talking about Roglic like he is just some marketing tool and not a prolific winner? Why should he be obliged to go to the Tour? He is not some random rider who the team can force to do anything. In the future he will be remembered for his wins not for his Tour de France sponsorship obliged participations.
If I am Roglic I am not going to the Tour. I am resting, healing and preparing properly for the Vuelta where I can achieve the record of victories.

If you are Roglič you do want to go to the Tour.

Also, teams don't care about crash statistics. They just don't. We see time and time again Denk mentioning how strong Rog is. That's all they see, numbers.

They want a podium in the Tour and I'm pretty convinced Rog does as well. So the goal is totally achievable.

I really hope the team wants to win too.

Not sure how Roglic would have done today, but presumably his plan was to do exactly what Yates did…wait for Finestre and smash all opposition. Good reminder that Roglic was no where close to our even 3 minutes down. Yates is going to win by over 3 minutes despite starting 1:21 down at the start of the stage. Had Roglic been healthy he could have done a Nibali/Froome for sure

IMHO Rogla is better climber then del Toro so it all depends on the circumstances, comparing to Yates performance. Coming healthy and in good position, into this stage, that would likely be enough, to defend.

It's because you are completely and utterly focussed on Roglic. It's not just you though. Same thing happens over in the Pogacar or Remco threads for example. Someone criticises them for something, they're instantly dubbed a 'hater' (and man, I loathe that childish word).

Someone stated in some other thread yesterday, that people that are not really a commited fan of any particular rider but are more a fan of the sport as a whole, feel superior. Well, when I read rider-dedicated threads and what's being said there about their competitors.. And then I read a couple of pages about todays stage, I come to that exact conclusion. The latter certainly contribute more balanced and interesting posts.

Same thing goes for football btw. The pundits that aren't a fan of any one team often deliver the best analysis.

IMHO it will be way worse at the Tour, as for the football, rather disappointing finale, stage 20 was better.

 

[Froome]

It's interesting, on how Meghan and Kate wanted to cosplay Lady Di, on how that never really took off, Rogla indeed being more naturally talented in this regard. Like Lady Di, only with a bit lower vocals. As for your selection of Elton and Rog flying high, IMHO much more suited, just look at the moves and it has, one could say, certain level of stomp to it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC_kCnm3GYQ




Nah, Roglič is not a bad bike handler and it's not bad luck. That is no way are you a bad bike handler winning stage races on a WT level. For that you need to have superior bike handling skills and Rogla has them. In past half a decade he won 5 GTs, was a runner up and finished third twice, won 6 out of 7 week long stage races, some on multiple occasions, monument winner and podium finisher, ITT Olympic champion ... Having bad bike handling skills would never ever win you all that. As for bad luck, pro road cycling is a group sport and on most GTs, on where Rogla DNF, he was not the weakest link in that group, fault was more or less always an outside factor. Then we more or less understand that cycling is currently a bit of a crash fest, in general, for example top 5 out of top 6 riders coming to Tour mid to high, when it comes to severity of the injury recovering from. Pogi for now with least amount of such issues, still crashed both at Giro 24 and SB 25. So it's not bad luck, it's more of a guarantee. Now if you take the share amount of stage races Rogla has done, it's a guarantee he would crash/injure at some. NOBODY can avoid that. So it's not just the number of wins, when it comes to stage racing and on where Rogla is ahead, it's the number of participations at such events, guarantees of crashes/injuries, on where Rogla leads ATM too, Rogla is the toughest, other members of top 6 rather pale in comparison.



So far and the ones that usually got him to abandon a GT, that was normally not his fault.



If you are Roglič you do want to go to the Tour.



I really hope the team wants to win too.



IMHO Rogla is better climber then del Toro so it all depends on the circumstances, comparing to Yates performance. Coming healthy and in good position, into this stage, that would likely be enough, to defend.



IMHO it will be way worse at the Tour, as for the football, rather disappointing finale, stage 20 was better.

Roglic won a lot of races, because he was and still is physically(plus very smart) one of the best riders in the world, not because he is a good bike handler.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic won a lot of races, because he was and still is physically one of the best riders in the world, not because he is a good bike handler.

It wouldn't work. Besides Pogi and van der Poel, the duo i assume most fans feel are a good bike handlers, they both crash rather consistently through the seasons. Currently that is a guarantee and can't be avoided in this sport and on top of that nobody is really doing anything meaningful to improve the situation, to lessen the guarantee.

Then you have to understand, that after stage 9, on where Rogla was not the weakest link in the group, after that Rogla rode injured, riding injured furthermore increases chances you will crash, again.

Anyway, when it comes to the combination of the magnitude of number of both wins and participations in term of stage racing, multiplied with a guarantee of crash, Rogla is the toughest. Other riders like Pogi, Jonas and Remco, pale in comparison and will need years to reach such levels.

 

[AmRacer]

It's interesting, on how Meghan and Kate wanted to cosplay Lady Di, on how that never really took off, Rogla indeed being more naturally talented in this regard. Like Lady Di, only with a bit lower vocals. As for your selection of Elton and Rog flying high, IMHO much more suited, just look at the moves and it has, one could say, certain level of stomp to it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC_kCnm3GYQ




Nah, Roglič is not a bad bike handler and it's not bad luck. That is no way are you a bad bike handler winning stage races on a WT level. For that you need to have superior bike handling skills and Rogla has them. In past half a decade he won 5 GTs, was a runner up and finished third twice, won 6 out of 7 week long stage races, some on multiple occasions, monument winner and podium finisher, ITT Olympic champion ... Having bad bike handling skills would never ever win you all that. As for bad luck, pro road cycling is a group sport and on most GTs, on where Rogla DNF, he was not the weakest link in that group, fault was more or less always an outside factor. Then we more or less understand that cycling is currently a bit of a crash fest, in general, for example top 5 out of top 6 riders coming to Tour mid to high, when it comes to severity of the injury recovering from. Pogi for now with least amount of such issues, still crashed both at Giro 24 and SB 25. So it's not bad luck, it's more of a guarantee. Now if you take the share amount of stage races Rogla has done, it's a guarantee he would crash/injure at some. NOBODY can avoid that. So it's not just the number of wins, when it comes to stage racing and on where Rogla is ahead, it's the number of participations at such events, guarantees of crashes/injuries, on where Rogla leads ATM too, Rogla is the toughest, other members of top 6 rather pale in comparison.



So far and the ones that usually got him to abandon a GT, that was normally not his fault.



If you are Roglič you do want to go to the Tour.



I really hope the team wants to win too.



IMHO Rogla is better climber then del Toro so it all depends on the circumstances, comparing to Yates performance. Coming healthy and in good position, into this stage, that would likely be enough, to defend.



IMHO it will be way worse at the Tour, as for the football, rather disappointing finale, stage 20 was better.

Rogla crashes and DNF, a lot.
Pogis only? crash and DNF is LBL?
Jonas and has a few of those too.

 

[Berniece]

I doubt it. In the end, Finestre was a fresh 1 hour effort, which he's done very well at historically. What would actually happen is like 15 layers of "it depends"

Not against those two. Look at Galibier last year.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Being the third guy behind Pog and Vinge could open up similar possibilities for Rog providing the gap is still manageable.

This is an absolutely key phrase. I imagine the mutants will have a very healthy gap over the rest.

 

[Rackham]

Not against those two. Look at Galibier last year.

Naturally the scenario requires top form Rog doing his best numbers. Galibier last year was not Rog in top form. He'd been dropped on San Luca 48 hours earlier and after the Tour we found out they'd had a very bad prep after the Dauphiné (which he finished injured).

All scenarios in which Rog gains time on Pog and Vinge are first and foremost contingent on him having good legs.

 

[Rackham]

This is an absolutely key phrase. I imagine the mutants will have a very healthy gap over the rest.

I haven't really looked in depth at the route yet but it seems GC might be tight for the first 11 stages or so, at least until Hautacam. The 33km ITT could be interesting.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I haven't really looked in depth at the route yet but it seems GC might be tight for the first 11 stages or so, at least until Hautacam. The 33km ITT could be interesting.

Yup, the route is terribly backloaded, maybe the worst I've ever seen (in this regard).

 

[Berniece]

All scenarios in which Rog gains time on Pog and Vinge are first and foremost contingent on him having good legs.

Maybe I’m just too pessimistic about the level of the two riders right behind Pogi/Vingegaard