Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Jun 22, 2009
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The yellow jersey is also a big goal for every team. With Evenepoel, Roglic and Lipo there is a chance to beat UAE in the TTT with Roglic or Evenepoel in yellow.
I think there is nothing Red Bull and Visma can really do to beat Pog. They just need to hope that he isn't in 100% shape, has a bad day or perhaps a crash again (noone really wants that) and then they need to be at 100%.
 
Sep 12, 2022
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Leaders even gave bottles to doms to get over the hills a tad lighter so i feel that RBH has this one sorted out. That is one doesn't need to put any thought whatsoever into it from the perspective of somebody that has even a remote shot in GC.
Not sure what you are trying to say. What I'm saying is that Roglic wants to ride the TDF, but not to win it, while also wanting to ride the Vuelta, to win it. It makes perfect sense for him to ride the TDF as training, maybe go for some stages, while also helping Lipowitz/Evenepoel achieve GC results.
 
Sep 1, 2023
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Not sure what you are trying to say. What I'm saying is that Roglic wants to ride the TDF, but not to win it, while also wanting to ride the Vuelta, to win it. It makes perfect sense for him to ride the TDF as training, maybe go for some stages, while also helping Lipowitz/Evenepoel achieve GC results.
Of course Rogla wants to win the TdF.
 
May 29, 2019
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If RBBH attack Pogi, Jonas will be the only one benefit from it.

Jonas IMHO isn't a problem here, RBH should be hoping for Visma to play along.

We are talking about 2022 here, not the previous two editions. Rogla helped with cracking Pogi during the Granon stage but the Slovenian never caused any troubles to Vingo in the mountains during that edition (and was dropped again on Hautacam). Vingo was better in 2022. One of BORA guys needs to be at about Pog's level for numbers game to play a factor.

In retrospect i don't feel that we can say Pogi wasn't always dominant. Rogla and Jonas pushed him out of his comfort zone and indeed that is on why he cracked and it was over on that day.

Even in 2020-2021 there were some signs Pog can be beaten: he beat Rogla just by 1 minute in 2020 (and was dropped on Loze) plus Vingo dropped him on Ventoux in 2021. Now? Pogacar is light years ahead of BORA guys and drops them by minutes at will, even 8 Roglices won't help here unless one of them is suddenly very close to Pog level-wise next year. Vingegaard is a different story but even he has to make a considerable step forward to match Pog.

There can't be 8 Rogličes, that is wishful thinking. There can be around 5 riders for RBH always in the mix, that can be done. As for the top 3 RBH riders, Pogi can't control them all if they play it smart and apply pressure. He isn't that good. Now if you send one RBH leader and a weak team, that is a different story, UAE and Pogi can tackle that while yawning.

The yellow jersey is also a big goal for every team. With Evenepoel, Roglic and Lipo there is a chance to beat UAE in the TTT with Roglic or Evenepoel in yellow.

Of course they can.

I think there is nothing Red Bull and Visma can really do to beat Pog. They just need to hope that he isn't in 100% shape, has a bad day or perhaps a crash again (noone really wants that) and then they need to be at 100%.

If persistently applying pressure, for sure they can pressure Pogi into making tactical mistakes.

Not sure what you are trying to say. What I'm saying is that Roglic wants to ride the TDF, but not to win it, while also wanting to ride the Vuelta, to win it. It makes perfect sense for him to ride the TDF as training, maybe go for some stages, while also helping Lipowitz/Evenepoel achieve GC results.

Actually it was the nationals campaign, on where for example Rogla would give Remco a bottle and then Remco would give him the bottle back at the top of the hill. Something for RBH to look into considering your only wish seems to be for Rogla to hand Remco a bottle. It can be done! As for the Tour and Rogličes chances, for GC, you have to understand that the expert journalists have spoken, basically written Rogla off, betting experts say he has basically 0 chance, on top of that Rogla is relatively old and crashes a lot. At best hence plan C or D or even E for RBH. So if Lipo, Remco, Jai, Giulio, Alex ... all try and somehow fail, then surely Rogla should try? Win for the team. Or would you rather see him offer a shoulder to cry on and be there for emotional support? It goes without saying.

Of course Rogla wants to win the TdF.

Heart says Vuelta head says the Tour, so both just to make sure? We'll see.
 
Sep 12, 2022
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Actually it was the nationals campaign, on where for example Rogla would give Remco a bottle and then Remco would give him the bottle back at the top of the hill. Something for RBH to look into considering your only wish seems to be for Rogla to hand Remco a bottle. It can be done! As for the Tour and Rogličes chances, for GC, you have to understand that the expert journalists have spoken, basically written Rogla off, betting experts say he has basically 0 chance, on top of that Rogla is relatively old and crashes a lot. At best hence plan C or D or even E for RBH. So if Lipo, Remco, Jai, Giulio, Alex ... all try and somehow fail, then surely Rogla should try? Win for the team. Or would you rather see him offer a shoulder to cry on and be there for emotional support? It goes without saying.
First of all, I don't consider Roglic only for handing a bottle to Remco. Stop thinking in camps, and read what I'm saying. I'm saying Roglic should go for stages and help Lipowitz/Evenepoel when possible. Since he is getting full leadership in the Vuelta where he can get the record.

Besides that, I still think Roglic is at the same level as Lipowitz and Evenepoel in the pecking order. All 3 are above Hindley, Pellizari, etc. I just don't think it makes sense to go with 3 leaders to the TDF, and even more so when Roglic says he really wants to go for the Vuelta win, but also wants to ride the TDF.
 
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May 29, 2019
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@Berniece

As long as one of them wins the Tour 2026 i am OK with that. If neither will then i am OK with Pogi taking it.

Riders like Jai and Giulio (Dani, Alex) should be there to apply pressure early on, as UAE won't let any of the trio in a break easily. As for how the trio should ride, they should ride to the best of their ability. Each is strong on certain terrain and there is on where each should be supported to apply pressure.
 
Sep 1, 2023
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Jonas IMHO isn't a problem here, RBH should be hoping for Visma to play along.



In retrospect i don't feel that we can say Pogi wasn't always dominant. Rogla and Jonas pushed him out of his comfort zone and indeed that is on why he cracked and it was over on that day.



There can't be 8 Rogličes, that is wishful thinking. There can be around 5 riders for RBH always in the mix, that can be done. As for the top 3 RBH riders, Pogi can't control them all if they play it smart and apply pressure. He isn't that good. Now if you send one RBH leader and a weak team, that is a different story, UAE and Pogi can tackle that while yawning.



Of course they can.



If persistently applying pressure, for sure they can pressure Pogi into making tactical mistakes.



Actually it was the nationals campaign, on where for example Rogla would give Remco a bottle and then Remco would give him the bottle back at the top of the hill. Something for RBH to look into considering your only wish seems to be for Rogla to hand Remco a bottle. It can be done! As for the Tour and Rogličes chances, for GC, you have to understand that the expert journalists have spoken, basically written Rogla off, betting experts say he has basically 0 chance, on top of that Rogla is relatively old and crashes a lot. At best hence plan C or D or even E for RBH. So if Lipo, Remco, Jai, Giulio, Alex ... all try and somehow fail, then surely Rogla should try? Win for the team. Or would you rather see him offer a shoulder to cry on and be there for emotional support? It goes without saying.



Heart says Vuelta head says the Tour, so both just to make sure? We'll see.
Jonas is the only one gaining an advantage if RBBH playing games with Pogi.
 
Mar 20, 2022
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So Rogla would like to do Vuelta and is open to do the Tour, Lipo would like to do the Tour, as for Remco we are waiting to see TT kilometres planned for Giro as the idea is to do the Giro if favourable in that regard, as for the Tour no strong hints yet but the idea of taking yellow jersey at the opening TTT, that is likely tempting.
View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQkQ4AijX91/?igsh=eXkwaWUydHhsMm0x
 
Apr 3, 2009
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Pogi won both the 2020 and the 2021 edition of the Tour so saying he wasn't dominant doesn't add up. When he was pushed out of his comfort zone, chasing down both Rogla and Jonas, that is what cracked him. Now RBH has three such riders and then some plus Jonas and Visma will for sure apply pressure too, among others. So just disregarding all this and believing Pogi can't struggle, fine, have such opinion but saying RBH sending one of them as a leader, possibly with a weak team, for that to be a better strategy, that is capitulating up front.
Surely you understand the difference between "dominant" and winning. Surely you can see he's not the rider he was 2+ years ago. Surely you can see that when Vingo and Visma used a multi-rider attack tactic, that it was close between Pogi and Vingo. And that it hasn't been close at all for 2 years. Which obviously makes all the difference.

I didn't disregard anything, and I think it's possible for Pogi to struggle. I just think right now it's unlikely, and if a team doesn't have 1 rider near the level of the best, there's a big limit on what 3 riders (or 2, or 4) not near his level can actually do. Because not only is Pogi a LOT better than he was in 2020 and 2021, but his team is as well. And they can drive a pace on climbs which takes everything the other leaders have just to hold the wheel. Then Pogi can put in more.

It's kinda hard to attack a guy when you're already on the limit. This is why UAE goes to the front, raises the pace, and launches Pogi. No one does anything because no one can. Stage racing 101. See Postal, Sky, etc.

To be clear, I don't think that's an argument (again) that they should only send one leader. I've never said they should send 1. If they send 3, great. Whatever they think will work. But it's not going to matter at all on the big cols. So they would have to find a way, like Visma before them, of attacking in other spots. I would like to see it.

The problem with all your arguments here is that you start from a place of "I want Roglic at the Tour" and "all the dismissal of Roglic hurts my feelings" rather than a place of "What are the best tactics for RBH" and "what is the best way for RBH to plan the season". It seems to lead to some fairly naive "analysis" regarding who they should and shouldn't take.
So basically we are saying the same thing it's you just have issues mentioning Rogla in the same scenario.
Honestly, do you read? I have no issue whatsoever with Rogic going. I think he's stronger than everyone who is writing him off. I just don't think sending 3 leaders to the Tour is a particularly likely scenario. Whoever those 3 might be. But...again...it's possible and I have no issue with it.

Read people's posts. If you need clarification, ask instead of making things up.
For sure RBH can now crack UAE, team vs team, that is if they do their due diligence, especially when it comes to roster selection and if they choose to.
Anything is possible. Not going to happen on the big cols, so please explain how and where they can "crack" UAE and what exactly you mean by "cracking" them.
Exactly, they need to take the mentioned three riders plus some good climbers and of course somebody for the flats, or two. Basically they can't afford to split their best up and send them to different GTs, unless some do the Tour too. Main reason for it they now have a roster to compose one AAA team, they don't have enough riders of such calibre to form two such teams.
So one or two (progress!) guys for the flats. Pulling for 3 weeks, almost every day. Not going to happen. For reasons everyone here has tried to tell you over and over again.
So bottom line, riders are free to choose their schedules but at the Tour the best ones will need to participate.
I seriously doubt that. The team has an interest in all rider schedules. Remco is probably the most free to choose his own schedule, but the team is gonna have something to say about even his schedule. Certainly the other riders are not "free to choose". They can have their preferences and asks. The team will decide.
And all please stop whining on how hard life is, as a rider riding for a super team at the Tour, that is the ultimate goal and not something one should be scared off. It pays well too.
What the f*** are you even talking about.
 
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Jul 7, 2013
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@CyclistAbi

Not the same, its like 9-11 minute gap now, bigger that a few years back. UAE should have a super strong team (with Almeida this time) and Visma will play their game too (chasing RBH as well), everyone vs Pogi its not working like that.

There is nothing RBH can do if Pog attacks furiously from the bottom (like on Hautacam). He even doesnt need a super team for that. Then its everyone on his own and w/kg gap is too big. He and UAE will maybe perform a huge attack on Tourmalet anyway anticipating any other long range attacks from RBH.
 
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