Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

You can't challenge Visma and UAE unless you have someone who is close to Vingegaard and Pogacar.
Both teams have strong enough squads to nullify the numbers game and by the first mountain stage most of RBH will be minutes behind already.

Doesn't matter who they send they both go with 1 undisputed leader. If RBH can do that with someone as strong as Pogi or Vingo then they have a chance, unless both of those are true then not so much.

So in the gist of it yours and a couple of other people reasoning is RBH can't win the Tour and because of that they shouldn't bring their AAA team to the Tour?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Without knowing, I think thats only worn at special events? and this was just a meet-and-greet on a regular Tuesday. However, even if he's the god of cycling or not Georgio wouldnt approve of this. Got much to learn.

Yeah, as a rule of thumb don't wear bibs under a thawb, wear a bisht over it.

 

[AmRacer]

So in the gist of it yours and a couple of other people reasoning is RBH can't win the Tour and because of that they shouldn't bring their AAA team to the Tour?

They will bring their best team possible to the Tour, and it's not the same rider you want it to be.

 

[CyclistAbi]

They will bring their best team possible to the Tour, and it's not the same rider you want it to be.

Best team possible for flats, for UAE to not drop them there? Guys, please follow the discussion and foremost listen to yourself. Anyway, will wait for some other people responding as with you it's mostly one liners, some of the others actually went ahead and explained their reasoning. I respect that much more so i will focus on that for now.

 

[AmRacer]

Best team possible for flats, for UAE to not drop them there? Guys, please follow the discussion and foremost listen to yourself. Anyway, will wait for some other people responding as with you it's mostly one liners, some of the others actually went ahead and explained their reasoning. I respect that much more so i will focus on that for now.

Best team for the Tour. Pogi and Jonas will drop those who's left when UAE and VLAB doms are done with their job.

 

[YavorD]

So in the gist of it yours and a couple of other people reasoning is RBH can't win the Tour and because of that they shouldn't bring their AAA team to the Tour?

But your idea about AAA team isn't an AAA team, but a mix of good climbers.
Can wait for Hindley having to fight Van Aert for position...or Pellizzari chasing Armirail, Wellens and Campenaerts in the cross wind.

Also, no they can't. Unless Vingegaard and Pogacar drop their level and/or Evenepoel/Lipo improve a lot.

 

[YavorD]

Best team for the Tour. Pogi and Jonas will drop those who's left when UAE and VLAB doms are done with their job.

Considering that even Lipowitz couldn't stay with Kuss/Narvaez, there won't be anyone to drop bar potentially Remco.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Best team for the Tour. Pogi and Jonas will drop those who's left when UAE and VLAB doms are done with their job.

But your idea about AAA team isn't an AAA team, but a mix of good climbers.
Can wait for Hindley having to fight Van Aert for position...or Pellizzari chasing Armirail, Wellens and Campenaerts in the cross wind.

Also, no they can't. Unless Vingegaard and Pogacar drop their level and/or Evenepoel/Lipo improve a lot.

Considering that even Lipowitz couldn't stay with Kuss/Narvaez, there won't be anyone to drop bar potentially Remco.

You guys reading this you must admit there is some inconsistency in it and a bit of far fetching too. That is if we exclude the usual claim on how they can't win and focus on the rest.

So basically this again says UAE and Visma doms will drop the gist of RBH before Pogi and Jonas even start. So why does it even matter then, to fight for positions? On top of that so much focus on potential crosswinds, as that is ever going to win you a Tour? Kuss dropping Lipo and taking the podium spot?

Guys.

 

[YavorD]

You guys reading this you must admit there is some inconsistency in it and a bit of far fetching too. That is if we exclude the usual claim on how they can't win and focus on the rest.

So basically this again says UAE and Visma doms will drop the gist of RBH before Pogi and Jonas even start. So why does it even matter then, to fight for positions? On top of that so much focus on potential crosswinds, as that is ever going to win you a Tour? Kuss dropping Lipo and taking the podium spot?

Guys.

Kuss isn't taking the podium spot. Kuss dropping Lipo comes to show that Visna domestique can drop the best (or second best) RBH rider. I have zero doubt that Almeida can drop him as well.
So sending 147263 climbers won't help you win the Tour.
It will just make your team weaker overall.


And fighting for position matters a lot. Nobody likes to start a crucial climb on 48th position.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Kuss isn't taking the podium spot. Kuss dropping Lipo comes to show that Visna domestique can drop the best (or second best) RBH rider. I have zero doubt that Almeida can drop him as well.
So sending 147263 climbers won't help you win the Tour.
It will just make your team weaker overall.

OK so Lipo is the best or second best rider at RBH and both Kuss and Almeida can drop him, after all other RBH riders already being dropped. Fine. Then indeed the best winning strategy is to strengthen RBH on the flats.

Did it ever occur to you that it might be the exact opposite? RBH riders being there in support of their leaders consistently getting dropped early due to them being a relatively bad climbers? UAE and Visma not having to do much with that?

And fighting for position matters a lot. Nobody likes to start a crucial climb on 48th position.

A combo of mentioned riders, the ones you wouldn't send, can win such battle on a shorter and steep climb any day. On where such positioning even matters. I don't know what more one would want than that, it's the perfect lead-out train for such terrain.

 

[YavorD]

Did it ever occur to you that it might be the exact opposite? RBH riders being there in support of their leaders consistently getting dropped early due to them being a relatively bad climbers?

But non of RBH riders can bring Lipo back to Pogacar or Vingegaard, so again what's the benefit of 113256 climbers?

 

[AmRacer]

You guys reading this you must admit there is some inconsistency in it and a bit of far fetching too. That is if we exclude the usual claim on how they can't win and focus on the rest.

So basically this again says UAE and Visma doms will drop the gist of RBH before Pogi and Jonas even start. So why does it even matter then, to fight for positions? On top of that so much focus on potential crosswinds, as that is ever going to win you a Tour? Kuss dropping Lipo and taking the podium spot?

Guys.

Yes, that's why we replies to your assumptions.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But non of RBH riders can bring Lipo back to Pogacar or Vingegaard, so again what's the benefit of 113256 climbers?

So you don't see any benefit of having a plethora of support climbers around you once Pogi and/or Jonas go? If by any chance you have that luxury you can't use that for gaining any tactical advantage?

 

[YavorD]

So you don't see any benefit of having a plethora of support climbers around you once Pogi and/or Jonas go? If by any chance you have that luxury you can't use that for gaining any tactical advantage?

But the point us, you won't have a plethora of climbers in support, because all of them will be behind.
Besides, except for Tourmalet, the route is generally MTF oriented. Meaning that even if your theory is true, and you have plethora of climbers, they won't be of any advantage to you because they can't keep Pog/Vingo's wats.


Also, sticking to your theory about AAA team having a lot of climbers and 0 flat support, your "supportive climbers" will start the crucial climbs very far in the peloton, eating out their strength and reducing or eliminating their influence.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@YavorD

I wouldn't say 0, Tratnik can on an occasion do a pull or two, obviously used sparingly as UAE and Visma should do the rest. As for your fear, that good climbers wouldn't get to there, here i feel that the fear is vastly exaggerated. On stages that it actually matters the most the split doesn't occur with a flip of a switch, teams like UAE and Visma in general must go in deep grinding mode to play the elimination game for prolonged periods of time. Good climbers riding behind have hence not much to worry about here, beyond yawning. Rest assured that it is much more stressful, for leader(s), on where you know MTF is ahead and your team got dropped one hill back already. That is not helpful, especially knowing it's not due to UAE or Visma doms, it's due to your doms, well, lets just say being better on the flat.

 

[YavorD]

@YavorD

I wouldn't say 0, Tratnik can on an occasion do a pull or two, obviously used sparingly as UAE and Visma should do the rest. As for your fear, that good climbers wouldn't get to there, here i feel that the fear is vastly exaggerated. On stages that it actually matters the most the split doesn't occur with a flip of a switch, teams like UAE and Visma in general must go in deep grinding mode to play the elimination game for prolonged periods of time. Good climbers riding behind have hence not much to worry about here, beyond yawning. Rest assured that it is much more stressful, for leader(s), on where you know MTF is ahead and your team got dropped one hill back already. That is not helpful, especially knowing it's not due to UAE or Visma doms, it's due to your doms, well, lets just say better on the flat.

Okay, this discussion is pointless.
We all know what will happen.
RBH won't send a team like the one you imply (because it's not an AAA, vut a weak one), they won't win the Tour and you'll complain it's because of the teams choice and leaders being "abandoned by the team".

 

[CyclistAbi]

@YavorD

I mean in that case i won't complain at all as the focus will be on Giro and Vuelta, two races on where Rogla will go with the climbers that didn't make it in the Tour team.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean if not for the Tour then at least early-ish in the 2026 season, once the forms starts building up, to take such team to a potentially B type race event and to fry UAE and Visma on the dance floor. To get a taste of it and to decide if they like it.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

@YavorD

So you do expect for UAE and Visma to bring their best. As for the RBH and two lists above you basically excluded Hindley, Pellizzari and Martínez.

Why?

Can you point at any time when a team with genuine GC podium/victory expectations has sent a team that has simply been the best 8/9 climbers that team has on the books?

If not, do you think it likely that you have a tactical insight that no experienced and professional team manager has ever considered?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

So in the gist of it yours and a couple of other people reasoning is RBH can't win the Tour and because of that they shouldn't bring their AAA team to the Tour?

I'm reminded of an interview with Stuart Pearce when he first became Nottingham Forest manager. He described how he finalised his line-up for the first match in charge while at home, and showed his wife his plans. She responded by asking whether it wasn't normal to have a goalkeeper.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Armchair Cyclist

If you read the whole discussion carefully then you must have realised that the people that as you say question my insight and suggestion admit up front that their solution won't win RBH the Tour. No way would it work is what it's admitted frequently, when asked with a straight face.

Furthermore most argue they mostly fear if such climbers orientated team would even reach the ultimate climb. Here i agree that there is some risk involved but as it was explained nothing to worry about too much.

As for what happens if such climbing orientated team actually does get to the ultimate climb, here and AFAIK nobody refuted RBH could actually try to do something with that. Like for example to toy with Pogi and Jonas. Plus you can frequently put such riders in breakaways, they are good at that.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Can you point at any time when a team with genuine GC podium/victory expectations has sent a team that has simply been the best 8/9 climbers that team has on the books?

@Armchair Cyclist

If you read the whole discussion carefully then you must have realised ...

I'll take that as a "no" then.
Which makes my second question apposite:

do you think it likely that you have a tactical insight that no experienced and professional team manager has ever considered?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Armchair Cyclist

What is your point? Are you refuting my claims and you plan to suggest some alternative strategy that in your opinion is more suitable? Are you going to acknowledge the fact people i discussed with admitted their solution won't work? Why are you saying 8/9 climbers on where it is know there are 8 team members in a Tour team and i only advocated for roughly 7 climbers plus Tratnik?

P.S. As for professional, last year they send a sprinter and some people on this forum advocated for it, so that is that. One really doesn't need to say more.

 

[SHAD0W93]

On top of that so much focus on potential crosswinds, as that is ever going to win you a Tour?

The crosswind stage definitely helped Froome beat Quintana in 2013.

 

[AmRacer]

@Armchair Cyclist

What is your point? Are you refuting my claims and you plan to suggest some alternative strategy that in your opinion is more suitable? Are you going to acknowledge the fact people i discussed with admitted their solution won't work? Why are you saying 8/9 climbers on where it is know there are 8 team members in a Tour team and i only advocated for roughly 7 climbers plus Tratnik?

P.S. As for professional, last year they send a sprinter and some people on this forum advocated for it, so that is that. One really doesn't need to say more.

Your solution won't work.