Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

@AmRacer

I see, nobody else.

@SHAD0W93

From time to time all sort of discussions emerge, for example placing somebody in history, comparing, ... the point of my question should put things into more realistic perspective. Rogla is the only one and that IMHO speaks volumes by itself. As for your additional questions i don't really see relevance here, as Pogi lost a couple of times too. That is rather normal.

 

[SHAD0W93]

As for your additional questions i don't really see relevance here, as Pogi lost a couple of times too. That is rather normal.

So your question isn’t as big a deal as you make it out to be.

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

I see, nobody else.

@SHAD0W93

From time to time all sort of discussions emerge, for example placing somebody in history, comparing, ... the point of my question should put things into more realistic perspective. Rogla is the only one and that IMHO speaks volumes by itself. As for your additional questions i don't really see relevance here, as Pogi lost a couple of times too. That is rather normal.

I guess somebody did the same with Chriss Froome, at some point in time.

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

I see, nobody else.

@SHAD0W93

From time to time all sort of discussions emerge, for example placing somebody in history, comparing, ... the point of my question should put things into more realistic perspective. Rogla is the only one and that IMHO speaks volumes by itself. As for your additional questions i don't really see relevance here, as Pogi lost a couple of times too. That is rather normal.

Rogla was at his peak 2019-2021, and Pogi just started.

 

[bNator]

With all due respect but Rogla is not a mere generational talent on when it comes to stage racing.

You can continue your little Rogla-is-the-GOAT cosplay for all I care but I won't let you refute my wording based on ***. Rogla is one of the most successful GC riders of his generation. That's a fact. He is not THE most successful GC rider of his generation or even the 2nd most successful rider of his generation. You've got Froome, Pogi, and Vingegaard who are more successful and the only one you can possibly debate here is Vingegaard.

Now if he's 3rd or 4th most successful GC rider of his generation and given the fact he hasn't won TdF, you can hardly debate he is trans-generational talent unless you keep dozens of guys on that list. And I won't even get into the fact I was talking about success and you have moved to debating talent because it was supposed to suit your "point" better, I assume...

 

[CyclistAbi]

So your question isn’t as big a deal as you make it out to be.

You can't really compare a fact of life and especially a fact of pro road cycling, that is everybody being on the losing end at some point, to a historically achievement that only a handful of riders, or less, achieved. There is a significant difference involved.

I guess somebody did the same with Chriss Froome, at some point in time.

Froome is a totally different type of rider who was never a powerhouse in classics.

Results in monument classics for Chris Froome

Chris Froome results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 36th in Liège - Bastogne - Liège 2013.

www.procyclingstats.com

So yes you are correct, Froome was beaten consistently in this element of the game hence nothing all that special to see here.

Rogla was at his peak 2019-2021, and Pogi just started.

Considering Pogi won both the 2020 and 2021 edition of the Tour it would be hard to argue he wasn't top notch already back then.

You can continue your little Rogla-is-the-GOAT cosplay for all I care but I won't let you refute my wording based on ***. Rogla is one of the most successful GC riders of his generation. That's a fact. He is not THE most successful GC rider of his generation or even the 2nd most successful rider of his generation. You've got Froome, Pogi, and Vingegaard who are more successful and the only one you can possibly debate here is Vingegaard.

Now if he's 3rd or 4th most successful GC rider of his generation and given the fact he hasn't won TdF, you can hardly debate he is trans-generational talent unless you keep dozens of guys on that list. And I won't even get into the fact I was talking about success and you have moved to debating talent because it was supposed to suit your "point" better, I assume...

Rogla is a record holder at number of Vuelta wins, won a Giro and is a record holder in terms of winning different types of week long stage races. He was a runner up to Pogi at the Tour. And as said Rogla is currently the only rider that has beaten Pogi in all elements of this game, GT racing, week long stage racing and at a monument. Rogla showed Pogi on how that looks like and Pogi is hence lineal champion in this category, winner in all elements of the game, Rogličes successor. Special category of historical all time greats and of top of them a legendary status while still active in this sport. And then there are other results too, achieved outside stage and monument racing.

 

[AmRacer]

You can't really compare a fact of life and especially a fact of pro road cycling, that is everybody being on the losing end at some point, to a historically achievement that only a handful of riders, or less, achieved. There is a significant difference involved.


.
Froome is a totally different type of rider who was never a powerhouse in classics.

Results in monument classics for Chris Froome

Chris Froome results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 36th in Liège - Bastogne - Liège 2013.

www.procyclingstats.com

So yes you are correct, Froome was beaten consistently in this element of the game hence nothing all that special to see here.



Considering Pogi won both the 2020 and 2021 edition of the Tour it would be hard to argue he wasn't top notch already back then.



Rogla is a record holder at number of Vuelta wins, won a Giro and is a record holder in terms ow winning different types of week long stage races. He was a runner up to Pogi at the Tour. And as said Rogla is currently the only rider that has beaten Pogi in all elements of this game, GT racing, week long stage racing and at a monument. Rogla showed Pogi on how that looks like and Pogi is hence lineal champion in this category, winner in all elements of the game, Rogličes successor. Special category of historical all time greats and of top of them a legendary status while still active in this sport. And then there are other results too, achieved outside stage and monument racing.

Pogi wasn't a Classic powerhouse either, when Rogla beat him.

 

[Red Rick]

Wasn’t this talked about
A better question that hasn’t been asked every year.
Who else besides Pogacar has beaten Roglic in multiple GTs, monuments, and Worlds by minutes?

*Cross references Giro 2016 and Tour 2017 final GC results for outrageous names while deliberately ignoring the point being made*

 

[CyclistAbi]

@AmRacer

Here is the comparison:

Results in monument classics for Chris Froome

Chris Froome results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 36th in Liège - Bastogne - Liège 2013.

www.procyclingstats.com

Results in monument classics for Tadej Pogačar

Tadej PogaÄar results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 1st in Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2021.

www.procyclingstats.com

Note that you brought up Froome, not me.

 

[CyclistAbi]

*Cross references Giro 2016 and Tour 2017 final GC results for outrageous names while deliberately ignoring the point being made*

It just pains some that Rogla is the only one that has beaten Pogi in all relevant elements of this game. It messes with their agenda, trying to sell Rogla short. Then they i guess start to hallucinate, like AI.

Just admit it guys, Pogi is lineal Rogla. Both from the rare historic line of top notch all rounding dominators that have ever played this game called pro road peloton.

 

[Rockestar_33]

You can continue your little Rogla-is-the-GOAT cosplay for all I care but I won't let you refute my wording based on ***. Rogla is one of the most successful GC riders of his generation. That's a fact. He is not THE most successful GC rider of his generation or even the 2nd most successful rider of his generation. You've got Froome, Pogi, and Vingegaard who are more successful and the only one you can possibly debate here is Vingegaard.

Now if he's 3rd or 4th most successful GC rider of his generation and given the fact he hasn't won TdF, you can hardly debate he is trans-generational talent unless you keep dozens of guys on that list. And I won't even get into the fact I was talking about success and you have moved to debating talent because it was supposed to suit your "point" better, I assume...

I really don't see how you can include Froome in the discussion. He's not the same era. Roglic got to the level when Froome wasn't even in decline, but literally done as a GC candidate. So he's definitely top 3 of his era.

Roglic is probably the best week long stage racer ever. If he caps his palmares in this regard with TDS next year you can't deny that.

Pogi is a star. Probably ends up as the second best ever behind Eddy. I do wish Roglic won the 2020 tour, as one of my favourite riders of all time. And I know how young Pogi was when this happened but Roglic is one of three riders to win a Grand Tour where Pogi started.

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

Here is the comparison:

Results in monument classics for Chris Froome

Chris Froome results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 36th in Liège - Bastogne - Liège 2013.

www.procyclingstats.com

Results in monument classics for Tadej Pogačar

Tadej PogaÄar results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 1st in Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2021.

www.procyclingstats.com

Note that you brought up Froome, not me.

So, when Rogla beat Pogi in LBL, Pogi hadn't won any monument? Same as Froome?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@AmRacer

If you didn't acknowledge it by now, that bringing Froome in the discussion was misplaced, then you likely won't acknowledge that any time soon. Point being we would just be wasting time on something that is misplaced and doesn't fit into the original discussion. And even if we would do all that the conclusion would still be the same. Rogla would still be the only one that has beaten Pogi in all relevant elements of this game.

As for the future prospects, Jonas would need to up his game in one day racing events and Remco would need to up his game in stage racing. For either to stand a chance of achieving that. As for some youngster i currently don't see it. A rider of such calibre.

 

[Cycling111]

So, when Rogla beat Pogi in LBL, Pogi hadn't won any monument? Same as Froome?

Without Alaphilippe's actions,that was sanctioned, Roglic would have finished fourth. Pogacar would almost certainly have won, with Hirschi second; they were the strongest.

The only Monument where Roglic seemed to be in better shape was in Lombardy 2023. He was very strong after Kuss's Vuelta while Pogacar was struggling after his Liège crash, but he couldn't beat him.
He has defeated him was due to a sanctioned action by another rider. The following year, Pogacar won Liège in the sprint, which would almost certainly have happened without Alaphilippe's action.

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

If you didn't acknowledge it by now, that bringing Froome in the discussion was misplaced, then you likely won't acknowledge that any time soon. Point being we would just be wasting time on something that is misplaced and doesn't fit into the original discussion. And even if we would do all that the conclusion would still be the same. Rogla would still be the only one that has beaten Pogi in all relevant elements of this game.

As for the future prospects, Jonas would need to up his game in one day racing events and Remco would need to up his game in stage racing. For either to stand a chance of achieving that. As for some youngster i currently don't see it. A rider of such calibre.

So, you do agree Roglic happened to win a monument beating Pogi who wasn't a Classics powerhouse by then.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Without Alaphilippe's actions,that was sanctioned, Roglic would have finished fourth. Pogacar would almost certainly have won, with Hirschi second; they were the strongest.

The only Monument where Roglic seemed to be in better shape was in Lombardy 2023. He was very strong after Kuss's Vuelta while Pogacar was struggling after his Liège crash, but he couldn't beat him.
He has defeated him was due to a sanctioned action by another rider. The following year, Pogacar won Liège in the sprint, which would almost certainly have happened without Alaphilippe's action.

I'm a Pogacar fan but that's just impossible to say. We don't know who would have won that LBL, there is no "almost certainly"

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2002744202908848265

View: https://x.com/ttjash/status/2002744202908848265


Rogla on a Christmas run in Maribor.

 

[bNator]

Rogla is a record holder at number of Vuelta wins, won a Giro and is a record holder in terms of winning different types of week long stage races. He was a runner up to Pogi at the Tour. And as said Rogla is currently the only rider that has beaten Pogi in all elements of this game, GT racing, week long stage racing and at a monument. Rogla showed Pogi on how that looks like and Pogi is hence lineal champion in this category, winner in all elements of the game, Rogličes successor. Special category of historical all time greats and of top of them a legendary status while still active in this sport. And then there are other results too, achieved outside stage and monument racing.

Ok, so comparing Rogla to Vingegaard, Pogi and Froome - how would you rank those 4 in terms of success as GC racers?