Explosion at Boston Marathon

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May 11, 2009
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plooton said:
I am not sure about you guys, but for me, as Czech national these funny comments makes me feel like smiling (despite the fact, Im not pleased indeed, that many mixed us up with Chechnya. Should the USA declare war on Czechoslovakia? :cool: EDIT: I mean the comments in the link bellow, of course.

http://storify.com/suchosch/e-en-sko?awesm=sfy.co_hIEW&utm_campaign&utm_source=t.co&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
Unlike Europe the schools in the USA rarely teach geography. Many in the USA think New Mexico is part of Mexico.
 
plooton said:
I am not sure about you guys, but for me, as Czech national these funny comments makes me feel like smiling (despite the fact, Im not pleased indeed, that many mixed us up with Chechnya. Should the USA declare war on Czechoslovakia? :cool: EDIT: I mean the comments in the link bellow, of course.

http://storify.com/suchosch/e-en-sko?awesm=sfy.co_hIEW&utm_campaign&utm_source=t.co&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
No problem, bro. The Czech ambassador has released a clarifying statement.

http://www.mzv.cz/washington/en/czech_u_s_relations/news/statement_of_the_ambassador_of_the_czech.html

LOL.
 
Oct 20, 2012
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plooton said:
I am not sure about you guys, but for me, as Czech national these funny comments makes me feel like smiling (despite the fact, Im not pleased indeed, that many mixed us up with Chechnya. Should the USA declare war on Czechoslovakia? :cool: EDIT: I mean the comments in the link bellow, of course.

http://storify.com/suchosch/e-en-sko?awesm=sfy.co_hIEW&utm_campaign&utm_source=t.co&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
It is like the old anecdote about blonds who ask:

But tell me please .. is it Iraq or Iran?? :rolleyes::p:D
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Glenn Beck is going off the deep end. Again. He's now spouting about this being possibly the second most important 'story' he's ever covered. He's a changed man as a result of the secret, inside info he's received - info that he will publish on Monday unless the gubmint does so first. Read it and weep.

I want you to listen to me carefully for the next 20 minutes.This is very, very important. What we do going forward from here will determine the fate of our nation. Make no mistake. This story is number 2 because of what I know. What we do will make this the most important story of our lifetime. What’s happening now is very important. What happens in the aftermath will make it the most important, because it will either save our country or we will be done.
Absent from their announcement was any mention of the Saudi national. Now the documents were brought to our attention at TheBlaze, and those documents indicate that this guy is scheduled for deportation next Tuesday due to issues related to national security. The document goes on to say that the individual is linked to the Boston bombing. That’s what the federal document says.

This is the same person that we were initially told was a person of interest. This was the Saudi national in the hospital. His apartment was in Revere, Massachusetts. It was raided. The items were removed. And then we were told he was just a possible witness. And then we were finally told by the authorities he had nothing to do with the attack in fact he wasn’t a witness to the crime. Why was he in the hospital? How did he get to the ground zero? What was he doing there? He wasn’t even a witness? Really?

This guy who wasn’t a witness is suddenly being deported next Tuesday, whisked off our continent to go back to Saudi Arabia, and he wasn’t even a witness – yet the documents he’s being deported voluntarily on terror charges linked to the Boston bombing.

I want you to hear me clearly. If you think everybody in the government is bad you’re wrong. The only reason TheBlaze knows this because we have several — I can’t count them on both hands – several sources who’re brave, valiant Patriotic Americans that work in all departments at all levels of this governmnent. Who have contacted TheBlaze one way or another, and said “help, help, help.”

There are several dedicated Americans in the law enforcement community that decided they could not stand idly by, and let the truth be swept under the rug. That a deportation order was being issued. It was issued Tuesday 4:00 p.m. by an organization or a government entity that most people have never heard of called the National Targeting Center. It’s a little known federal antiterrorism division.

After reporting this on TheBlaze.com yesterday, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement categorically denied, calling it grossly in error. ICE claimed there was a Saudi national in custody waiting deportation but it was completely unrelated to the Boston bombing.
Why was the President meeting with somebody unscheduled earlier this week? A Saudi official. Who is this Saudi man who was in the hospital, given a new international cell phone and apologized to according to him in Saudi press? Who is he, I wonder? Why would anyone linked to the bombings be deported? If he’s involved wouldn’t he be prosecuted? If he’s a witness why wouldn’t you want him to testify? Why would you allow someone who was standing by the bomb be deported? Why would he leave? And why hasn’t anyone in the media taken an interest in finding out why? Why are they silent?

“The Blaze” is interested. And TheBlaze will not comply. We will not sit down. We will not shut up. We will not be intimidated. We look hard into looking who he is. Who he’s connected to, and why he seems to be offered a ticket to freedom even though he’s been linked to bombing. Don’t believe me? Don’t believe me. Six Congressmen have verified.

One of our brave sources asked me to do something very specific and when I was told to do it I said ‘That’s crazy talk. What does the hell does that mean?’ They told me what it meant. I can’t at this time tell you what it means. But I want to do it one more time.

On Monday I reveal everything we know. So let me just say this to those at the highest echelons of government. No the tagging system. They know about events. Not files, events.

Let me send this message very clear: We know who this Saudi national is. It is in your best interest of the integrity of the people of United States of America. It’s best coming from you, not from a news organization. It’s best coming from you. You have until Monday. We have information on who this man is. And listen to me carefully. In your little “event” world, we know he is a very bad, bad, bad man. I know that doesn’t make any sense to you right now. But on Monday it will.

It makes sense to somebody in Washington.

I don’t bluff. I make promises. The truth matters. I’ve had enough of what you’ve done to our country.

I thought I had heard and seen it all. I thought I didn’t trust my government. Oh no, no, no, no.

There is no depth that these people will not stoop to. They have until Monday and then TheBlaze will expose it.
http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/04/19/glenn-“after-what-i-have-learned-this-week-im-a-changed-person-”/

Can hardly wait for tomorrow....:rolleyes:
 
May 13, 2009
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All in all it seems in the end like the repeat of a story which has played out all too often in the past. My feeling is that it was nothing more spectacular than a 20 something year old psycho (no friends, beats girlfriend) who couldn't cope with reality any more and decided to go out with a bang instead of a whimper. Because this particular psycho happens to have Chechnyan ethnicity, he apparently sought help in his endeavor from terrorists belonging to the Chechnyan nationalists movement. Under other circumstances, he might just as well have gotten a gun and gone the way of the Virginia Tech shooter, for instance.

There's a few aspects which make this a bit different than similar incidents.
1) Because he was Muslim and used a bomb, instead of being Christian and using a gun, the left won't feel the need to discuss gun control, instead the right is going to discuss islamofascism or whatever nonsense. Still, it would be interesting to know why in the end a bomb was chosen. Couldn't he get a gun, or maybe he thought to remain undetected for longer?
2) The younger brother seemed to have been much better integrated and maybe??? wasn't a nutcase. I wonder how he got himself into this.
3) The Chechnyan nationalist movement is sh!t out of luck. While there had been some sympathies from the 'West' maybe 15 years ago (because they were sticking it to the evil Russkies), they are now universally reviled. Whoever the contact person was in Chechnya, he did a colossal miscalculation by helping the psycho brother.
4) The most 'fun' aspect of this seems to be that the Russians requested information on this guy some time ago, and the FBI goes out and complies (in the name of the fight against international terrorism, most likely). How does that taste? Nobody feeling paranoid about it yet? Maybe it needs to sink in a bit, first.
5) And of course, farce following tragedy, witness the whole Chechnya/Czech thing. If the Slovaks needed another reason to break away from the Czechs it's that they will avoid the wrath of geographically challenged Americans.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Cobblestones said:
All in all it seems in the end like the repeat of a story which has played out all too often in the past. My feeling is that it was nothing more spectacular than a 20 something year old psycho (no friends, beats girlfriend) who couldn't cope with reality . . .
Kinda. Back, the first time I was at university, I had some Irani friends in the dorm. This was before the occupation of the embassy and the hostages. Through various incidents, I lost the friendship of some of them - because of misunderstanding and different expectations. I eventually learned what so upset some of them - but the point is, the cultural differences are huge. Grand Canyon huge. What we don't notice, because it is everday, they see as godless and sacrilegious. BoB would be seriously sinful and unbalanced in the eyes of many there. TV, daily life - most in the western world only pay attention to religion once a week at best, typically far less often. This is a serious issue to many in those cultures.

So, it came out that the elder brother said something like (paraphrasing): I don't get these Americans, so I don't have any of them as friends. And the younger brother enjoys "winning" discussions about religion and morals by (successfully, apparently) pointing out the flaws in others' arguments? I am reminded of those Irani I used to know, and what they regarded as intolerable insult. Some of those guys went home, and are there today in their government.

Yeah, 20 yr old, couldn't cope . . . reaction colored by current political and cultural climates . . . colored with a palette of violence.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Cobblestones said:
All in all it seems in the end like the repeat of a story which has played out all too often in the past. My feeling is that it was nothing more spectacular than a 20 something year old psycho (no friends, beats girlfriend) who couldn't cope with reality any more and decided to go out with a bang instead of a whimper. Because this particular psycho happens to have Chechnyan ethnicity, he apparently sought help in his endeavor from terrorists belonging to the Chechnyan nationalists movement. Under other circumstances, he might just as well have gotten a gun and gone the way of the Virginia Tech shooter, for instance.

There's a few aspects which make this a bit different than similar incidents.
1) Because he was Muslim and used a bomb, instead of being Christian and using a gun, the left won't feel the need to discuss gun control, instead the right is going to discuss islamofascism or whatever nonsense. Still, it would be interesting to know why in the end a bomb was chosen. Couldn't he get a gun, or maybe he thought to remain undetected for longer?
2) The younger brother seemed to have been much better integrated and maybe??? wasn't a nutcase. I wonder how he got himself into this.
3) The Chechnyan nationalist movement is sh!t out of luck. While there had been some sympathies from the 'West' maybe 15 years ago (because they were sticking it to the evil Russkies), they are now universally reviled. Whoever the contact person was in Chechnya, he did a colossal miscalculation by helping the psycho brother.
4) The most 'fun' aspect of this seems to be that the Russians requested information on this guy some time ago, and the FBI goes out and complies (in the name of the fight against international terrorism, most likely). How does that taste? Nobody feeling paranoid about it yet? Maybe it needs to sink in a bit, first.
5) And of course, farce following tragedy, witness the whole Chechnya/Czech thing. If the Slovaks needed another reason to break away from the Czechs it's that they will avoid the wrath of geographically challenged Americans.
Your thesis seems to be anti-U.S. from its core although it touches on some lesser truths. Here is the volatile mixture a violent theocratic ideology with the rest you've mention. The main thing is these men had other choices to vent, but they have done what they have done. The dead are theirs alone to account for.

That's really it, not the greater socioeconomic or national-religious fanatic beliefs, just what they chose to do. They are accountable for themselves in the end.

How would you take it if I started blabbering in defence of the Klan's killings, especially in the 20th century, as being the only cause of the same rationale as their main body being of lower economic standing? No, there are no excuses. In the end, I can have sympathies, but they do not extend so far as to offer up some kind of excuse for what has been done here.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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The Hitch said:
will Messiah get blamed for the FBI failing?

I mean he gets praised for **** he didnt do, like killing bin laden, doesn't it work both ways.
At least we Americans feel free to examine our failures, especially when it come to those who govern. The British Intelligence Service are very good, maybe the best, but I feel they are less transparent and so their goof ups are never to seen. What do you think? I could be wrong being without a front row seat.

Characters like James Bond...satirized it the film "Austin Powers"..."sexy baby" says a lot about some of the anti-U.S. spew being bantered about.
 
BillytheKid said:
Your thesis seems to be anti-U.S. from its core although it touches on some lesser truths. Here is the volatile mixture a violent theocratic ideology with the rest you've mention. The main thing is these men had other choices to vent, but they have done what they have done. The dead are theirs alone to account for.

That's really it, not the greater socioeconomic or national-religious fanatic beliefs, just what they chose to do. They are accountable for themselves in the end.

How would you take it if I started blabbering in defence of the Klan's killings, especially in the 20th century, as being the only cause of the same rationale as their main body being of lower economic standing? No, there are no excuses. In the end, I can have sympathies, but they do not extend so far as to offer up some kind of excuse for what has been done here.
Are you implying that individual actions aren't conditioned by a broader ideological based foundation?

To live in this world is to be sincere and always intellectually honest, though this escapes you.

The older brother became a jihadist and swept the younger one along. It's as simple as that. Though how did he do this, as far as the younger brother is concerned? That he became a jihadist has nothing to do with individual actions subsequently performed, but a choice that came with "maturity." Unfortunately anti-Americanism is virulent, that at least is clear and it is something which will have to be lived with during the foreseeable future.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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plooton said:
I am not sure about you guys, but for me, as Czech national these funny comments makes me feel like smiling (despite the fact, Im not pleased indeed, that many mixed us up with Chechnya. Should the USA declare war on Czechoslovakia? :cool: EDIT: I mean the comments in the link bellow, of course.

http://storify.com/suchosch/e-en-sko?awesm=sfy.co_hIEW&utm_campaign&utm_source=t.co&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
Funny that I live in the U.S. state of New Mexico. There are many times we're are confused by some of our country men as being Mexican. I had a globe of the Earth given to me when young so I consider it that I have good base in geography, but as time gets on, some things can get fuzzy to the ear that you write from.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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rhubroma said:
Are you implying that individual actions aren't conditioned by a broader ideological based foundation?

To live in this world is to be sincere and always intellectually honest, though this escapes you.

The older brother became a jihadist and swept the younger one along. It's as simple as that. Though how did he do this, as far as the younger brother is concernerd? That he became a jihadist has nothing to do with "individual actions" subsequently performed, but a choice that came with "maturity." Unfortunately anti-Americanism is virulent, that at least is clear and it is something which will have to be lived with during the foreseeable future.
Not at all. I understand the issues and what may have been at the root, but what I am saying is, once done, these cannot become excuses for killing. I think I wrote clearly to that point.

There is always the "what if" aspect of lives gone wrong, even as my avatar "might of been." You can consider all things, but the killing in the end comes down to a choice. Despair can lead many to such horrible turns, there is great room for sympathy and understanding for those afflicted, but they have crossed the line in killing and terrorizing, justice must be served.

That fact that "justice" can go wrong in its application is another matter.
 
BillytheKid said:
Not at all. I understand the issues and what may have been at the root, but what I am saying is, once done, these cannot become excuses for killing. I think I wrote clearly to that point.

There is always the "what if" aspect of lives gone wrong, even as my avatar "might of been." You can consider all things, but the killing in the end comes down to a choice. Despair can lead many to such horrible turns, there is great room for sympathy nad understanding for those afflicted, but they have crossed the line in killing and terrorizing, justice must be served.

That fact that "justice" can go wrong in its application is another matter.
Nobody is making excuses for killing, though the killing keeps happening from both fronts.

You should read Gino Strada of Medics Without Frontiers.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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rhubroma said:
Nobody is making excuses for killing, though the killing keeps happening from both fronts.

You should read Gino Strada of Medics Without Frontiers.
And when has killing ever not been so of us? If not guns, then swords, bow and arrows, the rock at your foot...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The Hitch said:
will Messiah get blamed for the FBI failing?

I mean he gets praised for **** he didnt do, like killing bin laden, doesn't it work both ways.
I don't think I really want to know the answer, but I have to ask: who is "Messiah"?
 
Jan 27, 2013
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I have no idea what happened with this bombing but I do know that this trial and conviction in the media doesn't convince me of anything.
 
May 27, 2012
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The Hitch said:
will Messiah get blamed for the FBI failing?

I mean he gets praised for **** he didnt do, like killing bin laden, doesn't it work both ways.
I'm sure he will be blamed when they find the "Tsarnaev determined to attack in the US" memo...no, he'll be blamed regardless by idiots who think the president is privy to every single investigation of every person of interest in the country...:rolleyes:

He did give the approval for the bin Ladden take-down...I'm sure he personally nixed the investigation into Tsarnaev too thereby legitimizing your comparison...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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RetroActive said:
I have no idea what happened with this bombing but I do know that this trial and conviction in the media doesn't convince me of anything.
How could it as you state you have no idea what happened.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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The Hitch said:
will Messiah get blamed for the FBI failing?

I mean he gets praised for **** he didnt do, like killing bin laden, doesn't it work both ways.
No, the spin will be that they live in the USA and it is so wrong it drove them mad or drove them to do what they did because of what was on TV or Movies and all around them (aka Environment). What other option does the one that's still living have if there ever is a case.

At present they still have not read him his Miranda rights because they (FBI/Government) think its a special circumstance (sorry I forgot the official legal term), which of course has the ACLU (I think I got the acronym right) in a hissy fit. Should be sent to Guantanamo and have his rights read there.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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ElChingon said:
How could it as you state you have no idea what happened.
Due process used to mean something. If you think a trial by media suffices as the truth you've got less of an idea than I do.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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RetroActive said:
Due process used to mean something. If you think a trial by media suffices as the truth you've got less of an idea than I do.
Trial by facts so far is working so far.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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RetroActive said:
It's the best option available, when is that going to happen?
Maybe when they put Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on trial? I don't know it you've realized this, but there really is no such thing as a "trial by media." It's just a dumb expression and has nothing to do with the legal system.

On a separate issue, like a lot of people I am troubled that the police didn't read Dzhokhar his Miranda Rights--the idea that these rights are suddenly optional is dismaying, especially since it's in extreme situations like this that their centrality is tested--a test whose failure should make everyone a little nervous.
 
RetroActive said:
I have no idea what happened with this bombing but I do know that this trial and conviction in the media doesn't convince me of anything.
OK, let me help you out. There are three major lines of evidence implicating the Tsarnaev brothers in the bombing:

1) pictures of them setting down packs at the bomb site moments before the bombs went off, packs that fit the description provided by forensics
2) eye-witness testimony, by one of the bombing victims, of Dzhokhar setting down one of the packs
3) testimony by the man whose car was stolen that the two brothers identified themselves as the bombers

In addition to this evidence, there will likely be other evidence linking Dzhokhar and/or Tamerlan to the bombing, from forensics, cell phone calls, perhaps records of buying bomb materials, etc.

Moreover, even if neither brother had had anything to do with the bombing, there is enough evidence to put Dzhokhar away for a long time, viz.:

1) murder of a cop
2) shooting at officers, and seriously wounding one of them
3) car-jacking
4) illegal possession of weapons, bombs, etc.

But, hey, it could be much worse. The lockdown cost Boston an estimated $330 million. He's not being asked to repay that. The tens of thousands of dollars of medical care he's getting now is free. He could be subject to civil suits from the victims and their relatives, but on a prisoner's pay, he won't be paying much of that back.

Wallace said:
like a lot of people I am troubled that the police didn't read Dzhokhar his Miranda Rights--the idea that these rights are suddenly optional is dismaying, especially since it's in extreme situations like this that their centrality is tested--a test whose failure should make everyone a little nervous.
Yes, but keep a couple of things in mind:

1) He still has those rights; he just wasn’t informed of them. Anyone who knowingly and willingly breaks the law ought to know that he has the right to remain silent until he gets legal counsel. It’s an oft-repeated truism that ignorance of the law is not a defense, that it’s every individual’s responsibility to be informed about the law. So you could argue that ignorance of your rights does not always and necessarily imply that you should be informed of those rights.

2) The reason the government doesn’t want to inform him of his rights is not with the idea of building a stronger case against him. On the contrary, it’s possible that anything he says under these conditions could be challenged in a trial. The reason the government doesn’t want to inform him of his rights is because once a lawyer intervenes between him and the government, the chances of finding out about any other people that might have been involved in the bombing decreases considerably. The government is arguably gambling here, risking their case against Dzhokhar for the sake of getting more information on others.

It seems to me that Dzhokhar is clearly toast at this point. He will spend the rest of his life in prison, the only question being how much longer that life will be, i.e., will he be executed. But if other people were involved in the bombing, his testimony could be critical in finding them and preventing future actions. There have been unconfirmed reports of a cell involving a dozen people, and two people who were among three who were originally detained and then released have been re-arrested. I understand the symbolism in reading him his rights, and am also uncomfortable about not doing this, but if as a practical matter not reading them only affects the ability to gather evidence against others, a case can be made for suspending these rights. I can at least understand the thought process involved.

Beyond that, many puzzling questions remain, at least for me:

a) Why did he do this? It appears that Tamerlan was less assimilated into American culture. The bombing was more likely his idea, or if there were others involved, he was in more direct communication with them. But why would Dzhokhar—who seemed fully integrated into America, and never mentioned his brother to friends—go along with it? I hear the term "brainwashed" thrown around, but it's really not that easy to persuade most people to do something that goes against normal human sensibilities, particularly someone who is firmly entrenched in healthy social networks. If he were isolated in some terrorist camp for several months, listening to their views of the world, 24/7, yes, I could understand. But not through occasional chats with the brother.

b) What did they plan to do after the bombing? Did they think they could remain in Boston, unrecognized? Someone who worked on Dzhokhar’s car said when he came for it the next day and was told it wasn’t ready, he was very nervous. But he was also reported to be at a party the night after that, and very relaxed. Had they decided by then that they weren’t going to get caught? Or was the plan all along to remain in Boston and carry out more bombings and killings, since they did have a large supply of weapons and bombs?

c) Did they panic when they were identified though their photos? Why would they kill a policeman who AFAIK hadn’t identified them and wasn’t pursuing them? It was reported that they started the confrontation with the other cops. Why? If they had all these guns and ammo and bombs, why wouldn’t they plan another bombing? Did they decide that now that their cover had been blown it would be easier just to try to kill a few cops than pull off another bombing? The bombing seemed well planned, yet they come across as incredibly disorganized and unplanned after that.

d) Where did they get the money for the weapons and the bomb and for Dzhokhar’s car, which I believe was a Mercedes?
 

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