Teams & Riders Fabio Jakobsen thread

[Red Rick]

I'll repost his Tweet:



i.e. Jakobsen is pretty crystal clear here: he's telling the entire world A/Groenewegen hasn't apologized to him & B/he has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's painting Groenewegen as an a**hole. Which might work for him & people who don't like Dylan, but there's a line where this stuff goes too far & people who had natural sympathy for Jokobsen could also believe this sort of public shaming of Groenewegen is unfair & uncalled for.

Essentially by going public with his grievances, this just escalated to an unfortunate level for all concerned.



What if Groenewegen genuinely believed the meeting between both of them had cleared the air a little? (at least from his perspective). We have no idea & we certainly can't (& should not) presume anything regarding Groenewegen's intentions with his prior statement about the meeting.

It's (as a I said) unfortunate because now we get a whole bunch of people on social media (& everyone knows how this works) burning Groenewegen at a stake this morning based on Jakobsen's Tweets.

Imagine getting pushed into the barriers, nearly dying then getting criticized for calling out the guy who did it on his ***.

 

[BlueRoads]

Obviously this is a matter of legal statements, it's about whether Groenewegen is responsible or if it was a very unfortunate but normal race incident.
And the main question is should you take responsibility for your actions if that means taking the juridical consequences or whether the punishment would be unjustified so that it's okay to avoid taking the blame.
Personally I think you should own up to your actions, like a drunk driver who caused an accident should do. In my eyes that could also help Groenewegen more than if he goes on living his life knowing he never took the blame.

 

[RedheadDane]

i.e. Jakobsen is pretty crystal clear here: he's telling the entire world A/Groenewegen hasn't apologized to him & B/he has not taken responsibility for his actions.

Still not sure I'd call it annihilation. Just Jakobsen pointing out that simultaneously too much has been said; Groenewegen mentioning the meeting in the first place, and a lot still needs to be said; Groenewegen needing to apologise, and take responsibility directly to Jakobsen!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

It's just a bit weird to expect apologies from someone in a room with 2 lawyers especially if that person has been demonised and wrongfully accused of all kinds of things. It really backfired and i think it's purely a product of the vile rivalry that always surrounds Patrick Lefevre and his wolfpack.
I fear they know his carreer is over though because this sure feels like a desperate move.

This is a very strange comment.

What business does Groenewegen have meeting with Jakobsen other than to apologise? Jakobsen owes him nothing, certainly not the opportunity to feel better about himself without apologising and certainly not the opportunity to use a meeting to improve his image without apologising.

If Groenewegen is being advised that he shouldn’t offer a personal apology for legal reasons, fine. There may be a lot of money at stake. That’s a reasonable choice. But he can’t reasonably expect Jakobsen to play along with a show of reconciliation on that basis.

 

[Netserk]

I think it's ugly to demand that he takes responsibility in the presence of legal teams. As if an apology can only be sincere if it incriminates him.

 

[SafeBet]

i.e. Jakobsen is pretty crystal clear here: he's telling the entire world A/Groenewegen hasn't apologized to him & B/he has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's painting Groenewegen as an a**hole. Which might work for him & people who don't like Dylan, but there's a line where this stuff goes too far & people who had natural sympathy for Jokobsen could also believe this sort of public shaming of Groenewegen is unfair & uncalled for.

Yep, that's the case for me.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I think it's ugly to demand that he takes responsibility in the presence of legal teams. As if an apology can only be sincere if it incriminates him.

Groenewegen is perfectly entitled to put insulating himself from financial consequences first. He has his own future to look after, fine. But if that’s his choice, he shouldn’t be going to meetings with Jakobsen who clearly expects a direct apology and he shouldn’t be chatting to the media about them unburdening their hearts. When you‘ve wronged someone grievously, you can’t have it both ways. I‘m very sure that any lawyer who is advising him not to apologise is also advising him to keep his trap shut entirely.

If I was Jakobsen, I wouldn’t entertain any half hearted attempts at reconciliation or participate in any public relations massaging of Groenewegen’s image until I was certain either that I would be able to resume my career at the top level or that Groenewegen would be compensating me for its loss. He has a future to consider too, although quite possibly a less comfortable one than he had to look forward to before someone put him in the barriers at 70 kp/h.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I'll repost his Tweet:



i.e. Jakobsen is pretty crystal clear here: he's telling the entire world A/Groenewegen hasn't apologized to him & B/he has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's painting Groenewegen as an a**hole. Which might work for him & people who don't like Dylan, but there's a line where this stuff goes too far & people who had natural sympathy for Jokobsen could also believe this sort of public shaming of Groenewegen is unfair & uncalled for.

Essentially by going public with his grievances, this just escalated to an unfortunate level for all concerned.



What if Groenewegen genuinely believed the meeting between both of them had cleared the air a little? (at least from his perspective). We have no idea & we certainly can't (& should not) presume anything regarding Groenewegen's intentions with his prior statement about the meeting.

It's (as a I said) unfortunate because now we get a whole bunch of people on social media (& everyone knows how this works) burning Groenewegen at a stake this morning based on Jakobsen's Tweets.

This is quite simple. If Groenewegen or Jumbo or the lawyer hadn't issued that statement about reconciliation then Jakobsen or Quickstep or his lawyer wouldn't have replied.

 

[Netserk]

Groenewegen is perfectly entitled to put insulating himself from financial consequences first. He has his own future to look after, fine. But if that’s his choice, he shouldn’t be going to meetings with Jakobsen who clearly expects a direct apology and he shouldn’t be chatting to the media about them unburdening their hearts. When you‘ve wronged someone grievously, you can’t have it both ways.

I‘m very sure that any lawyer who is advising him not to apologise is also advising him to keep his trap shut entirely.

You don't think he should meet FJ at all? I think it's understandable and reasonable to want to meet him and apologise as much as he could without incriminating himself.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's just a bit weird to expect apologies from someone in a room with 2 lawyers especially if that person has been demonised and wrongfully accused of all kinds of things. It really backfired and i think it's purely a product of the vile rivalry that always surrounds Patrick Lefevre and his wolfpack.
I fear they know his carreer is over though because this sure feels like a desperate move.

So this is kind of what i was talking about. Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's ugly to demand that he takes responsibility in the presence of legal teams. As if an apology can only be sincere if it incriminates him.

Could be.

But then you also shouldn't go out in the media and imply bygones is bygones.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

You don't think he should meet FJ at all? I think it's understandable and reasonable to want to meet him and apologise as much as he could without incriminating himself.

I don’t think he should expect Jakobsen to meet with him if he isn’t going to apologise and he shouldn’t expect Jakobsen to play silently along with misleading PR statements implying reconciliation if he isn’t going to apologise.

It is vastly more likely that his refusal to apologise is about insulating himself from financial consequences (ie civil proceedings) than it is about fear of criminal consequences, by the way.

 

[Red Rick]

Groenewegen is perfectly entitled to put insulating himself from financial consequences first. He has his own future to look after, fine. But if that’s his choice, he shouldn’t be going to meetings with Jakobsen who clearly expects a direct apology and he shouldn’t be chatting to the media about them unburdening their hearts. When you‘ve wronged someone grievously, you can’t have it both ways. I‘m very sure that any lawyer who is advising him not to apologise is also advising him to keep his trap shut entirely.

If I was Jakobsen, I wouldn’t entertain any half hearted attempts at reconciliation or participate in any public relations massaging of Groenewegen’s image until I was certain either that I would be able to resume my career at the top level or that Groenewegen would be compensating me for its loss. He has a future to consider too, although quite possibly a less comfortable one than he had to look forward to before someone put in the barriers at 70 kp/h.

Yeah. I just don't have any sympathy for Groenewegen looking like an *** in the media when he's made *** moves.

 

[Netserk]

I don’t think he should expect Jakobsen to meet with him if he isn’t going to apologise and he shouldn’t expect Jakobsen to play silently along with misleading PR statements implying reconciliation if he isn’t going to apologise.

It is vastly more likely that his refusal to apologise is about insulating himself from financial consequences (ie civil proceedings) than it is about fear of criminal consequences, by the way.

It's not clear at all to me that because he hasn't admitted to the legal responsibility of the crash in the presence of FJ's lawyers, he hasn't apologised at all. It's seems to me to be spin to conflate the two.

 

[yaco]

Much ado about nothing - And I have no idea why either party is making public statements when there is allegedly legal action happening.

 

[Bardamu]

I don't understand how trying to see the whole situation also from Groenewegen's POV, humanising him, is a form of a disgusting PR campaign by Jumbo.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't understand how trying to see the whole situation also from Groenewegen's POV, humanising him, is a form of a disgusting PR campaign by Jumbo.

He's more occupied with having to face as little consequences as possible than apologizing. So yeah any attempt to make him look like a victim is disgusting.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't understand how trying to see the whole situation also from Groenewegen's POV, humanising him, is a form of a disgusting PR campaign by Jumbo.

When at the expense of the actual victim, or with the intention to spin the story in order to control the narrative? Hell yeah.

You don't think he should meet FJ at all? I think it's understandable and reasonable to want to meet him and apologise as much as he could without incriminating himself.

Apologizing as much as he could without incriminating himself means not apologizing at all in this case. "I'm sorry for what happened to you Fabio" - Fck off. Everybody is sorry for what happened to Fabio, but not everybody slammed him into the barriers.

The entire world saw what happened. Him saying sorry in front of lawyers won't change anything. When you kill somebody and it's recorded on videotape, the prosecution doesn't need to hear the accused to say he's sorry in order to build a case. I'd like to hear from an actual lawyer here on the forum, can't believe there is none among our community. Because i think this is all mumbo-jumbo (some pun intended) based on Hollywood movies. This entire premise, as far as i know, is based on nothing but assumptions in comment sections by fans.

Why would he meet if he wasn't prepared to flat out say he's sorry? Why would he assume Jakobsen has any interest in "hearing a somewhat apology"? Why would he paint the picture as if both came away relieved and fulfilled from the table, when clearly that isn't the case?

 

[Netserk]

He's more occupied with having to face as little consequences as possible than apologizing. So yeah any attempt to make him look like a victim is disgusting.

So you are of the opinion that he hasn't apologised at all?

 

[AlfaLum]

I don't understand how trying to see the whole situation also from Groenewegen's POV, humanising him, is a form of a disgusting PR campaign by Jumbo.

yeah i am sure that if you almost kill someone while driving with your mobile phone in your hands you would have a hard time as well.

I would still appreciate it more if you would afterwards think about your victim more than about humanising yourself.

 

[Red Rick]

So you are of the opinion that he hasn't apologised at all?

An opinion based directly on what the victim is claiming.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

An opinion based directly on what the victim is claiming.

So, Groenewegen?

 

[King Boonen]

...
The entire world saw what happened. Him saying sorry in front of lawyers won't change anything. When you kill somebody and it's recorded on videotape, the prosecution doesn't need to hear the accused to say he's sorry in order to build a case. I'd like to hear from an actual lawyer here on the forum, can't believe there is none among our community. Because i think this is all mumbo-jumbo (some pun intended) based on Hollywood movies. This entire premise, as far as i know, is based on nothing but assumptions in comment sections by fans.
...

Pretty much exactly my opinion here too. I'd guess it's also very easy to spin an apology as not an omission of guilt, people feel guilty and responsible for things all the time without it actually being their fault. It's difficult to believe a simple apology has much bearing here without someone with actual knowledge backing that up.

 

[jmdirt]

I'll repost his Tweet:



i.e. Jakobsen is pretty crystal clear here: he's telling the entire world A/Groenewegen hasn't apologized to him & B/he has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's painting Groenewegen as an a**hole. Which might work for him & people who don't like Dylan, but there's a line where this stuff goes too far & people who had natural sympathy for Jokobsen could also believe this sort of public shaming of Groenewegen is unfair & uncalled for.

Essentially by going public with his grievances, this just escalated to an unfortunate level for all concerned.



What if Groenewegen genuinely believed the meeting between both of them had cleared the air a little? (at least from his perspective). We have no idea & we certainly can't (& should not) presume anything regarding Groenewegen's intentions with his prior statement about the meeting.

It's (as a I said) unfortunate because now we get a whole bunch of people on social media (& everyone knows how this works) burning Groenewegen at a stake this morning based on Jakobsen's Tweets.

I was a huge fan of DG, I loved the way that he ripped the cranks off of the bike, and twisted the frame while ripping up the road. The crash really disappointed me, but I probably could have gotten past it to enjoy his sprinting once again, but IMO his/JV's handling of the situation makes me forget him. I don't wish him harm, I just don't care about him anymore. I had nearly no 'feelings' for FJ before the crash, and while I wish that it didn't happen, and I wish him success on his return, I still really have no feelings for him. My point? I'm not a PJ fan throwing fruit at DG, I was a DG fan who turned away.

The silliness that happens on social media is so alarming on every level.

 

[Bardamu]

When at the expense of the actual victim, or with the intention to spin the story in order to control the narrative? Hell yeah.


Apologizing as much as he could without incriminating himself means not apologizing at all in this case. "I'm sorry for what happened to you Fabio" - Fck off. Everybody is sorry for what happened to Fabio, but not everybody slammed him into the barriers.

The entire world saw what happened. Him saying sorry in front of lawyers won't change anything. When you kill somebody and it's recorded on videotape, the prosecution doesn't need to hear the accused to say he's sorry in order to build a case. I'd like to hear from an actual lawyer here on the forum, can't believe there is none among our community. Because i think this is all mumbo-jumbo (some pun intended) based on Hollywood movies. This entire premise, as far as i know, is based on nothing but assumptions in comment sections by fans.

Why would he meet if he wasn't prepared to flat out say he's sorry? Why would he assume Jakobsen has any interest in "hearing a somewhat apology"? Why would he paint the picture as if both came away relieved and fulfilled from the table, when clearly that isn't the case?

I really don't see how this is going at the expense of Jakobsen. The whole situation is difficult for everybody, and I think it's good that we also try to remember that Groenewegen is also still a person who's gone through a very hard time.

Why are we supposed to feel empathy for just one person here? Not you necessarily, but I have a feeling that too many people here are equating what Groenewegen did with manslaughter/murder, which is imo very unhealthy and might say something about those persons.