Favorite climbs in Grand Tours

[roundabout]

I think Aspet-Mente-Portillon-Peyresourde-Azet-Pla d'Adet as seen in 2001 and 2005 is the toughest set of climbs used in a single stage in the Pyrenees. But with the change in philosophy, I doubt that there will be 6 climbs of category 2 and over on a single stage at least in the near future.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Aspet-Mente-Portillon-Peyresourde-Azet-Pla d'Adet as seen in 2001 and 2005 is the toughest set of climbs used in a single stage in the Pyrenees. But with the change in philosophy, I doubt that there will be 6 climbs of category 2 and over on a single stage at least in the near future.

Not gonna lie, the part where they seem to avoid really hard to get more than 3 per stage has been shocking.

Mente especially is an underrated climb that's legit really good yet it's always just a leg warmer, especially from the west.

 

[OlavEH]

I think Aspet-Mente-Portillon-Peyresourde-Azet-Pla d'Adet as seen in 2001 and 2005 is the toughest set of climbs used in a single stage in the Pyrenees. But with the change in philosophy, I doubt that there will be 6 climbs of category 2 and over on a single stage at least in the near future.

Comparing those two versions of Pla d'Adet to the 2014-version IMO illustrates very well the trend in the design of mountain stages in the Tour. In the 2014-version they dropped Aspet and Mente and the stage was 80 km shorter than in 2005.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I think Aspet-Mente-Portillon-Peyresourde-Azet-Pla d'Adet as seen in 2001 and 2005 is the toughest set of climbs used in a single stage in the Pyrenees. But with the change in philosophy, I doubt that there will be 6 climbs of category 2 and over on a single stage at least in the near future.

Aspet-Mente-Peyresourde-Aspin-Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden in 1988 has to be harder and you can probably beat that too by going further back in time, those Pla d'Adet stages probably beat everything else this century though. It hurts to compare that stage with this year's Luz Ardiden stage...

I could see a stage with six climbs at cat. 2 or above in the near future if ASO actually started doing hard stages outside the high mountains - the only stage since Pla d'Adet 2005 to fit the criteria is PBF 2014. The 2015 Andorra stage in the Vuelta would also count but that really was the exception with Unipublic, much like it would be if ASO did something of the sort.

Mente especially is an underrated climb that's legit really good yet it's always just a leg warmer, especially from the west.

It's just so awkwardly located relative to the places with the money to host.

 

[Red Rick]

Aspet-Mente-Peyresourde-Aspin-Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden in 1988 has to be harder and you can probably beat that too by going further back in time, those Pla d'Adet stages probably beat everything else this century though. It hurts to compare that stage with this year's Luz Ardiden stage...

I could see a stage with six climbs at cat. 2 or above in the near future if ASO actually started doing hard stages outside the high mountains - the only stage since Pla d'Adet 2005 to fit the criteria is PBF 2014. The 2015 Andorra stage in the Vuelta would also count but that really was the exception with Unipublic, much like it would be if ASO did something of the sort.

It's just so awkwardly located relative to the places with the money to host.

Hardest Pyrenees stages in the last 7 years have all been Vuelta stages.

 

[OlavEH]

ASO should really do something in the Pyrenees than centering almost all action round Bagneres-de-Luchon and the classic "circle of death"-climbs. A possible very good option would be to make the most out of the stages to Foix (like the one next year) by having multiple climbs before a descent from Peguere. A stage with Mente - Aspet - Core - Latrape - Agnes before Peguere and a descent finish to Foix as the last mountain stage could possibly be great.

 

[Nirvana]

Speaking about possible monster stages I can't help myself with posting this again:

This is some serious climbing. You can take just 100-120 km of this to make the hardest stage of the year.

With some additions you could do 5 stages and a great third week with that climbs without wasting any.

*Vars, Bonette, Lombarde, Sant'Anna.
*Fauniera + Madonna del Colletto.
*Esischie, Sampeyre, Pontechianale.
*Agnello, Izoard, finish in Briançon.
*Croix de Fer, Galibier, Granon.

Then throw in a 70+ kms ITT as final stage.

N.B.: you can also make them harder by adding something else at the beginning.

 

[Netserk]

ASO should really do something in the Pyrenees than centering almost all action round Bagneres-de-Luchon and the classic "circle of death"-climbs. A possible very good option would be to make the most out of the stages to Foix (like the one next year) by having multiple climbs before a descent from Peguere. A stage with Mente - Aspet - Core - Latrape - Agnes before Peguere and a descent finish to Foix as the last mountain stage could possibly be great.

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Bagnères-de-Luchon -> Foix, 197km

Portillon (1), Menté (1), Aspet (2), Core (1), Latrape (2), Agnès (1) and Péguère (1).

 

[Red Rick]

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Bagnères-de-Luchon -> Foix, 197km

Portillon (1), Menté (1), Aspet (2), Core (1), Latrape (2), Agnès (1) and Péguère (1).

Profile dead link broken

 

[Netserk]

Profile dead link broken

Info in the post is enough to imagine/recreate the profile. Even eight years later I still remember that tracks4bikers stretched the y-axis for that profile.

 

[Roku]

Stelvio - A relentless, steady and neverending uphill drag.

I particularly don't like the impossible gradients organizers are looking for at the present times, thus is why I am not a big fan of Zoncolan and Anglirú.

 

[OlavEH]

Bagnères-de-Luchon -> Foix, 197km

Portillon (1), Menté (1), Aspet (2), Core (1), Latrape (2), Agnès (1) and Péguère (1).

Yep, something like that. And you could easily drop Portillon and still have a great stage. About 180 km from Bagneres de Luchon via those other climbs to Fox.

Similarly there is really good options in the Alps without doing 220-230 km and 6,5-7 hours of racing. Joux Plane is a climb well overdue for being used again. A stage from Albertville via Saisies-Aravis-Colombiere-Romme - Joux Plane and gentle uphill finish to Les Gets would be about 150 km but still a set-up for a really good stage.

 

[skippo12]

Stelvio - A relentless, steady and neverending uphill drag.

I particularly don't like the impossible gradients organizers are looking for at the present times, thus is why I am not a big fan of Zoncolan and Anglirú.

Agree with exceptions. I am okay with them if the climbs are longer and if the crazy gradients are used as something special. Not the Rodriguez vs Valverde Vuelta designs that had at least 4-5 stages ending on muritos.
Italian homer pick. Muro di Guardiagrele was awesome. Would at least show some creativity to give it another try after the Lanciano instead of the usual mountain finish.

 

[tobydawq]

Agree with exceptions. I am okay with them if the climbs are longer and if the crazy gradients are used as something special. Not the Rodriguez vs Valverde Vuelta designs that had at least 4-5 stages ending on muritos.
Italian homer pick. Muro di Guardiagrele was awesome. Would at least show some creativity to give it another try after the Lanciano instead of the usual mountain finish.

Did the Montelupone climb retire together with Purito?

 

[Nirvana]

Did the Montelupone climb retire together with Purito?

If we talk about Tirreno also Chieti, Macerata, Camerino, Colmurano, the crazy Porto Sant'Elpidio stage with 30% walls just to cite the first that come to my mind. All retired since Vegni came on board as stage designer, except the one off more classical route seen in 2019 he does always the same with the three GC relevant stages being an hilly one with shallow gradients that generally favour an uphill sprint in Tuscany/Umbria, the MTF to lure in climbers and another hilly stage always located in a small area of the Marche with a route that incentives more attacks from afar. With Zomegnan (and also the short spell of Acquarone) we had a lot more variety with an hilly stage in Abruzzo instead of the MTF and a wider use of the whole Marche region.

 

[tobydawq]

If we talk about Tirreno also Chieti, Macerata, Camerino, Colmurano, the crazy Porto Sant'Elpidio stage with 30% walls just to cite the first that come to my mind. All retired since Vegni came on board as stage designer, except the one off more classical route seen in 2019 he does always the same with the three GC relevant stages being an hilly one with shallow gradients that generally favour an uphill sprint in Tuscany/Umbria, the MTF to lure in climbers and another hilly stage always located in a small area of the Marche with a route that incentives more attacks from afar. With Zomegnan (and also the short spell of Acquarone) we had a lot more variety with an hilly stage in Abruzzo instead of the MTF and a wider use of the whole Marche region.

I dunno, I think Tirreno has always been quite a locked race with only very, very few stages with action from afar the past 15 years, but the last three years have been great, so I don't think you can fault Vegni too much.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

2013 Tirreno was great. Vincenzo robbery

Angello is a great GT climb.

 

[Nirvana]

I dunno, I think Tirreno has always been quite a locked race with only very, very few stages with action from afar the past 15 years, but the last three years have been great, so I don't think you can fault Vegni too much.

But the ability to design stages that force action from afar is the only good thing about Vegni, in everything else is from bad to terrible and generally inadequate for the role he hold, and looking at this year's Giro route probably lost also that ability.

 

[Ulle97]

Just a question to the forum about 2 Alpine monsters that are a staple of Tour and Giro history.

The Galibier and Stelvio.

I was taking a look at their use in GTs over the last 20years and what surprises me is despite the fact they are almost the same size (Galibier about 100m lower), the stages with the Stelvio seem to create far more carnage and larger time gaps.

Is it because the Stelvio is a far harder climb? Do they not race the Galibier hard enough? Maybe the colder conditions in May play a factor?

Is it fair to say that the Stelvio is just a different beast to the Galibier???

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Super La Planche des Filles









(please don’t ban me @Red Rick )

 

[OlavEH]

Is it because the Stelvio is a far harder climb? Do they not race the Galibier hard enough? Maybe the colder conditions in May play a factor?

Is it fair to say that the Stelvio is just a different beast to the Galibier???

Well, maybe that Galibier usually is used in combo with Alpe d'Huez which gives a very long descent, where the last two thirds is non-technical, and 10 kms of flat before the last climb.

 

[Gigs_98]

Just a question to the forum about 2 Alpine monsters that are a staple of Tour and Giro history.

The Galibier and Stelvio.

I was taking a look at their use in GTs over the last 20years and what surprises me is despite the fact they are almost the same size (Galibier about 100m lower), the stages with the Stelvio seem to create far more carnage and larger time gaps.

Is it because the Stelvio is a far harder climb? Do they not race the Galibier hard enough? Maybe the colder conditions in May play a factor?

Is it fair to say that the Stelvio is just a different beast to the Galibier???

I think there are many factors at play here.

First of all, the north side of the Stelvio, the one which is way harder, has only been used twice in the last 20 years. And while that side indeed has created enormous time gaps, the other one has not. Both in 2012 and in 2014 the stage created big gaps but the crucial attack either came before the climb or in the case of 2014 on the descent. Then there is 2017 where all the favorites rolled over the Stelvio together.

That being said, I would say the north side, which does indeed create more carnage than the Galibier, really is just a bit harder. The Galibier is hard too, but it only starts going above 8% on the last few kilometers. Compare that to the Stelvio where the last 16km average 8.4%. According to cyclingcols that's as steep as the steepest 5km stretch of the Galibier. In todays peloton where high gradients are necessary for big gaps that just makes a big difference.

And then lastly, I think a big factor why the Galibier doesn't create as much carnage is that it doesn't link particularly well with any climb and you have a very long and flat descent where being in a group is a huge advantage. Looking back to recent Tour editions, the race quite regularly blew apart on the Galibier. In 2021 you had Pogacar vs. Jumbo, in 2011 you had Contador and Schleck attacking and in 2007 Contador had a minute gap to the gc group after an attack Cadel Evans is allegedly still recovering from. But in all of those races the gc group was back together after the descent.

I also just realized that if I write about the different sides of the Stelvio, I have to mention the different sides of the Galibier too. Because the southern sides really are just that much easier.

 

[Red Rick]

Just a question to the forum about 2 Alpine monsters that are a staple of Tour and Giro history.

The Galibier and Stelvio.

I was taking a look at their use in GTs over the last 20years and what surprises me is despite the fact they are almost the same size (Galibier about 100m lower), the stages with the Stelvio seem to create far more carnage and larger time gaps.

Is it because the Stelvio is a far harder climb? Do they not race the Galibier hard enough? Maybe the colder conditions in May play a factor?

Is it fair to say that the Stelvio is just a different beast to the Galibier???

Stelvio is much harder. Galibier has a significatn resting period between the Telegraphe and the start of the hard section of the Galibier, and the Galibier is only 8% or just over for the final 8km. Cyclingcols reports only 2.8km at 10% or more for the entire Telegraphe+Galibier while reporting over 6km for the Stelvio.

I don't think weather or altitude difference is very important. But stage difficulty does matter as well. And if they do the main part of the Galibier the stage generally isn't very difficult before, with the hardest scenario being like the weakest side of the Glandon before.

 

[Gigs_98]

May I also note the irony of someone called @Ulle97 asking why the Galibier doesn't cause more carnage.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

May I also note the irony of someone called @Ulle97 asking why the Galibier doesn't cause more carnage.

He did put the weather out there as a factor.