Fernando Alonso = Massive baby?

[King Boonen]

Cycling needs it, the sport can only get better from it. Such reasoning of yours is used by 10 year old kids.

Utter rubbish. Gifting a team to someone because they are bringing money will annoy current sponsors and could easily lose the sport money.

you then have the issue that this money is obviously tied to Alonso and the Ferrari connection. What if he gets bored? Will the funding continue? Such money will massively inflate wages of the top riders to a point that many teams can't afford. Then what happens if the funding goes? You've created an unsustainable model that can only be supported by sponsors plowing more and more money into it. Exactly the same thing has happened to the premier league in the UK, but that survives because it is football and one of the best leagues in the world. It already had the fan base and has managed to grow based on the worldwide appeal of football. But pretty much none of the teams are actually sustainable businesses on their own and all require constant investment of huge amounts of money. Money that just isn't available in cycling.

He wants a team? Fine. Start at the PCT level, prove he is serious about it and work up to the WT. Or buy a WT team and the associated licence. Or build a team and bid for a licence, just like everyone else has to.

But breaking the rules just because he thinks he's a big shot? No.

 

[hfer07]

Utter rubbish. Gifting a team to someone because they are bringing money will annoy current sponsors and could easily lose the sport money.

you then have the issue that this money is obviously tied to Alonso and the Ferrari connection. What if he gets bored? Will the funding continue? Such money will massively inflate wages of the top riders to a point that many teams can't afford. Then what happens if the funding goes? You've created an unsustainable model that can only be supported by sponsors plowing more and more money into it. Exactly the same thing has happened to the premier league in the UK, but that survives because it is football and one of the best leagues in the world. It already had the fan base and has managed to grow based on the worldwide appeal of football. But pretty much none of the teams are actually sustainable businesses on their own and all require constant investment of huge amounts of money. Money that just isn't available in cycling.

He wants a team? Fine. Start at the PCT level, prove he is serious about it and work up to the WT. Or buy a WT team and the associated licence. Or build a team and bid for a licence, just like everyone else has to.

But breaking the rules just because he thinks he's a big shot? No.

You really have good points in your argument, which I agreed with most of them. The main issues here are the "long term commitment" of the sponsors & the business aspect/model of cycling -both being outdated & not providing an stable environment for the sport to function properly.

As far as the Alonso team goes- you brought a fair point in asking if the Pro Tour needs another team, specially with the amount of riders used for WT races, GT's and so on-it will be up to the UCI to establish the rational of it, apart of course from the investment itself. I'm all for "downsizing" riders per team & balance it off with the incorporation of more teams.

What interests me the most about Alonso is him being a world renown figure with serious investors behind him, can "potentially" help cycling to build a healthy economical structure where teams can secure a longer term commitment & in the process, make money. As a conclusion I do believe UCI should "listen" what he has to offer, and perhaps come up with a compromise in which both sides benefit fairly for the betterment of the sport.

 

[Gloin22]

exactly tell him there are already teams with existing sponsors why should
promises trump existing commitment

euskatel learned that promises don't count for much

+ teams should be about riders /sponsors not spoilt rich boys with too much time on their hands

Mark L

That makes no sense though with the current system. There are no promotions and relegations in cycling..

 

[Arnout]

Are there really sponsors that are waiting in line to sponsor a WT-cycling team?

I mean HTC could not get a sponsor despite hammering out victories (albeit mostly sprint victories) left and right. And they had Cav which guarantees a certain coverage seeing as he is one of the main characters in the game.

No fan of Alonso (I am more of a Räikkönen/Massa kind of guy) but isn't it good news that some new sponsors come along?

Although I agree, he should not get any preferential treatment.

It's hard being a Massa or Raikkonen fan when Alonso is around I assume

If he indeed has secure backing he will get what he wants. UCI is not stupid and they will bend over backwards if the UAE indeed want to get involved. It's just money talking.

Also, the relative lack of news lately has probably to do with the Ferrari F1 situation too. It's not going well and I don't think Ferrari would be happy if Alonso is in the media talking about cycling all the time.

I think he needs to invest in an existing team, or suck it up in the lower leagues first.

As has been said before, cycling has a structure. He can't just ride coach and horses through the rules.

He couldn't just sign loads of superstars and line up in La Liga next season. He'd have to buy a La Liga club, or start at the lowest level in the Spanish pyramid that allows new entrants. Same goes for most sports.

He should buy Cannondale. Probably the easiest way of getting Sagan and a WT license.

Cycling is based on rider value and not on team value. Thing is, even if you buy a lot of riders which he is planning to do, the rider value counts for nothing if the UCI has the final say. There has been a lot of controversy with secret UCI rankings being different than the public ones and of course teams like Unibet have really suffered from politics surrounding the UCI and the ProTour. Asking publicly for clarity is just a way of putting pressure on the other party, they do that in Formula 1 almost daily.

 

[Michele]

Correct me if wrong, but didn't Greenedge receive their WT license without having a real sponsor and without the needed points?

 

[_nm___]

an alternative to having the WT licence is having the riders that guarantee you an invitation:

buy Sepp Vanmarke or Greg Van Avermet (whoever is cheapest) out of his contract, you're sure to be invited to the cobbled classics.
buy Romain Bardet out of his contract, you're sure to be invited to the hilly spring classics organised by ASO.
buy Nairo Quintana or Michal Kwiatkowsky (whoever is cheapest) out his contract, you're sure to be invited to the tour de france.
there should be enough money left to build a team around them.

if you can create enough hype and results with this team (which shouldn't be too difficult if you've performed all the above), you'll be invited to some other world tour races, too


if he's got the money he should splash it on relatively cheap contract buy outs, and forget about the world tour licence. he would be playing by the rules and he would be revolutionising cycling by the same token

 

[The Hitch]

an alternative to having the WT licence is having the riders that guarantee you an invitation:

buy Sepp Vanmarke or Greg Van Avermet (whoever is cheapest) out of his contract, you're sure to be invited to the cobbled classics.
buy Romain Bardet out of his contract, you're sure to be invited to the hilly spring classics organised by ASO.
buy Nairo Quintana or Michal Kwiatkowsky (whoever is cheapest) out his contract, you're sure to be invited to the tour de france.
there should be enough money left to build a team around them.

if you can create enough hype and results with this team (which shouldn't be too difficult if you've performed all the above), you'll be invited to some other world tour races, too


if he's got the money he should splash it on relatively cheap contract buy outs, and forget about the world tour licence. he would be playing by the rules and he would be revolutionising cycling by the same token

You would think so.

But on the other hand, see Geox TMC.

 

[Butterhead]

Surely if he signs the big name riders he wants then they will have enough points to guarantee a license anyway?

If the budget is only 20 million euros? It´s not many big names you can pay for that budget, 1 and 29 doms, at most.

 

[Butterhead]

an alternative to having the WT licence is having the riders that guarantee you an invitation:

buy Sepp Vanmarke or Greg Van Avermet (whoever is cheapest) out of his contract, you're sure to be invited to the cobbled classics.
buy Romain Bardet out of his contract, you're sure to be invited to the hilly spring classics organised by ASO.
buy Nairo Quintana or Michal Kwiatkowsky (whoever is cheapest) out his contract, you're sure to be invited to the tour de france.
there should be enough money left to build a team around them.

if you can create enough hype and results with this team (which shouldn't be too difficult if you've performed all the above), you'll be invited to some other world tour races, too


if he's got the money he should splash it on relatively cheap contract buy outs, and forget about the world tour licence. he would be playing by the rules and he would be revolutionising cycling by the same token

loool no way, not if the budget is only 20 million euros mate, forget it.

 

[Netserk]

If the budget is only 20 million euros? It´s not many big names you can pay for that budget, 1 and 29 doms, at most.

20 is a big budget...

 

[Jagartrott]

Let's welcome Trojan Horses like Man City into cycling - what a great idea. You bring the money, you get to make up the rules. Cannot possibly go wrong.

 

[Butterhead]

20 is a big budget...

Its medium, not that big mate, 20 doesn´t buy you several of the big names as quoted from a couple of posters here, far from it. For 20 you can have 1, remember they always want some of their own mates with them and they are not cheap either, my bet is that a guy like Sagan would probably bring at least 3 guys with him. 20 million is not a lot, it really isn´t.

 

[Netserk]

12-15 is medium big. 20 is big.

 

[Ruby United]

I am not shocked at all that he wants some guarantees before he agrees to spend his money, even if that is not really how cycling works.

Agreed. He only wants to build a team if it will be in world tour and he doesn't want to sign players until he can get that guarantee. It will be great for cycling for a new pro team.

 

[alspacka]

loool no way, not if the budget is only 20 million euros mate, forget it.

Last time I looked into team budgets estimates vary wildly. However, Sky publish their accounts...

Total operating expenses 2012: £21.36m
Rider and staff wages: £15.39m


So, it's safe to say 20m is a very decent budget.

 

[purcell]

Correct me if wrong, but didn't Greenedge receive their WT license without having a real sponsor and without the needed points?

Don't confuse people with facts!

 

[King Boonen]

Correct me if wrong, but didn't Greenedge receive their WT license without having a real sponsor and without the needed points?

Can't remember, but that's a strawman argument anyway.

OGE set up a team and submitted a licence application that was granted in the second(?) round of registration. They did not go moaning to the UCI and demand they be guaranteed a licence before they'd even signed a single rider.

 

[Pricey_sky]

If the budget is only 20 million euros? It´s not many big names you can pay for that budget, 1 and 29 doms, at most.

20 mill is a very decent budget. Not saying they can buy everyone they want but certainly enough to get riders with plenty of points earned.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Agreed. He only wants to build a team if it will be in world tour and he doesn't want to sign players until he can get that guarantee. It will be great for cycling for a new pro team.

Agree with this. It seems to me he wants the UCI to check his paperwork before submitting it and paying the UCI's substantial, yet undisclosed, WT fees. Also remember the process of granting a WT license is secret.

The UCI has a history of doing all kinds of things that made the sport smaller. Less races, demoting popular races, fewer teams, suppressing wages, killing second and third tier continental racing.

We know the UCI itself has very specific plans about the number of teams, number of races. Those plans might not include Alonso. The UCI could collect an undisclosed WT-level payment and deny his organization a WT license. The UCI doesn't want the WT to grow. They want to grow revenue. Different goals.

 

[zigmeister]

The UCI, their processes and politics haven't changed one bit. Yeah, Alonso and his guys have a point. Make some obvious changes for the better of the sport.

You can't sign a rider until August, yet, why are we signing contracts and investing 10s of millions into this thing, if the license and tour teams aren't decided until after that fact??? UCI is full of idiots.

Cookson has worked magic hasn't he since his successful election bid right? He's done nothing but confiscate Fat Pat's laptop...end of story. Nothing to benefit and change a single thing for the teams/riders. Just pump himself and his ego up more. OH wait, they made a great rule change for the HR record bike specifications...well done!!!

And of course, a thread is created, and oopppss...more info comes out later from Alonso's people, they haven't asked anybody for any special favors. Simple stated the obvious and frustrations with the moronic process.

 

[King Boonen]

You can't sign a rider until August, yet, why are we signing contracts and investing 10s of millions into this thing, if the license and tour teams aren't decided until after that fact??? UCI is full of idiots.

So you would advocate awarding someone a licence for next year without knowing if they are even going to have a team to race? I'm pretty sure the UCI have that the right way round.

 

[pastronef]

Wasn't Alonso supposed to be in Italy after the Monaco GP to talk with Bettini about the new team?

 

[Arnout]

Wasn't Alonso supposed to be in Italy after the Monaco GP to talk with Bettini about the new team?

He was in Maranello for sure after Monaco so who knows.

 

[RiccoDinko]

anything new, or just a big bluff?

 

[42x16ss]

Cookson has worked magic hasn't he since his successful election bid right? He's done nothing but confiscate Fat Pat's laptop...end of story. Nothing to benefit and change a single thing for the teams/riders. Just pump himself and his ego up more. OH wait, they made a great rule change for the HR record bike specifications...well done!!!

How dare you! You forgot cameras on bikes!!!!