File under "You have got to be &$(%ing kidding me?!

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Mar 13, 2009
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movingtarget said:
Quite funny that Evans blindsided Lotto after winning the Worlds and had been negotiating with BMC when Lotto expected him to re-sign. Marc Sergeant sounded shocked when Evans told them he was leaving as the current World Champion.
was pretty obvious who he was going to, when it was not announced for weeks. There was only one option
 
blackcat said:
...

So, Evans could have a tin ear for team and personal politics. He could. He might also know politics, but have an actionable tin ear because he cannot do "politics", or he does not understand the social equation. I shall ask esteemed polymath D-Q for his opinion.

But feel free to chew me out Ethics/Gradient
Now that is some flattery.

But, we aren't supposed to discuss or debate the poster(s), just the topic or point.

Situation: Newbie (2 posts total) is criticizing long-time poster. And, on a post that is pretty well thought out.


On Evans: He is a professional cyclist.

Professional cyclists having ultimately one responsibility, which is to promote the advertisers.

That requires being and acting professional. Doing so has secondary benefits like having your teammates, coaching staff, etc. want to work with you

Evans was not a newbie when he lost it, on camera.

If you are a GC leader. In kit. At a race site. With reporters and their cameras focused on you. Then you are "on camera".

Even if it wasn't roid rage, Evans needed to grow up. And, his irrational behavior - WHILE BEING INTERVIEWED ON CAMERA - is more than fair target to assess his ethics in a sport known for poor models.

He needs the press. His team needs the press. His team and his teammates don't need a head case that acts like he is on drugs.

Dave.
 
May 26, 2010
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D-Queued said:
.....

Professional cyclists having ultimately one responsibility, which is to promote the advertisers.

.........
Professional cyclists have more than one responsibility.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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To me there seemed to be significant difference in his appearance pre -and post his TDF-win/best period.. Before he got the yellow in Paris he striked me as being high-tempered unable to control his outbursts..
I wonder if he really was angry to be "conspired" against by all these (full-genius) dopers.. Getting the prize he had been hungering for so long did seem have some sort of therapeutic effect on him..
As for diseases he migh/may suffer I dunno..
Maybe the environment was so bad that it could make any guy lose the plot...
Back when he pulled off his angry stunts I must admit I found it hard to emphatize with him, but in hindsight he somehow redeemed himself by some amount of changing his ways...

As for riding style, He reminded me a bit of Ullrich post-97.. Often riding his own tempo, strong TT and few chances taken.. (before his win obviously)
I dunno if they somehow had similarly "doping styles" but funny enough both are often described as "real" talents.. Whatever that is...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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The Hitch said:
I don't understand why people continue to believe that anyone who is doping must be superhuman every single day of every single year. Doping makes you way better, it doesn't make you immune from bad days, or in this case slightly worse days.

This seems to be a particular habbit of Evans fans. Oh look Evans had a bad day here and one here, as if that somehow ruled out him doping (even though on these bad days he was still 1000x better than all the other guys who got caught on EPO)

Look at Landis for christ sakes. Or Armstrong in 2003. Or Contador in Paris Nice. Or Ullrich LDA back in 98 when everyone was on 60% and he still lost more time on 1 stage than Evans did in 3 consecutive tours put together.

The idea that riders who dope must automatically win every stage and Evans failure to win stages while still beating all the other dopers somehow, is suggestive of being clean, is ridiculous.
how many jour sans did Armstrong have? a couple. and they were never jour sans with the gravity to lose the Tour.

But Armstrong was the exception that proves the rule. And his doping was different scale.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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movingtarget said:
What I was saying was that I don't think Evans TT results in GTs from 2005 to 2014 were that great. He never won a GT TT on the road and often he did one good TT and one weaker one. He wasn't even close to being superhuman but of course that does not mean he did not dope. But you also could argue that Cancellara and Martin were dominating TTs in Evans best years and previous years when GC riders were winning TTs were no longer happening.
GC riders need to spend their "building" months in the hills doing Rasmussen type mtn passes in the Dolomites. Axiomatically means the GC riders tt's will be of less speed, because their major training is in the mountains.

So Armstrong and Ullrich were exceptions with their wins. And Contador. In this sense, if you neutralise this, Evans is performing extremely high. But, the GC riders do bring a different motivation to this stage. 70% of the peloton take this as a day-off, with an aim of just making time cut.
 
Benotti69 said:
Professional cyclists have more than one responsibility.
I know what you're saying, but it really is as simple as I suggest.

Cycling is effectively unique in how sponsor logos are displayed prominently on the athletes clothing.

Whenever the athlete gains coverage, the sponsors are rewarded.

Sponsor fees are calibrated to the size of the logo on the clothing, and can even include team naming rights. Thus, sponsors pay professional cycles in order to generate 'impressions'.*

Such explicit commercialization is even frowned on, restricted or banned in other professional sports. Those other sports benefiting from gate receipts, food and beverage sales, and TV/radio rights to cover access controlled events.

Objective = as many impressions as possible

Effective strategies to achieve impressions include winning races, standing on podiums, long solo breakaways, intermediate sprints, TT prowess, mountain top placings, etc.

Anything that monopolizes the coverage, in a positive fashion, works.

Dave.

* please recall that this is more or less the entire defense case put forward by Lance with respect to USPS and the Qui Tam case.
 
mrhender said:
To me there seemed to be significant difference in his appearance pre -and post his TDF-win/best period.. Before he got the yellow in Paris he striked me as being high-tempered unable to control his outbursts..
I wonder if he really was angry to be "conspired" against by all these (full-genius) dopers.. Getting the prize he had been hungering for so long did seem have some sort of therapeutic effect on him..
As for diseases he migh/may suffer I dunno..
Maybe the environment was so bad that it could make any guy lose the plot...
Back when he pulled off his angry stunts I must admit I found it hard to emphatize with him, but in hindsight he somehow redeemed himself by some amount of changing his ways...

As for riding style, He reminded me a bit of Ullrich post-97.. Often riding his own tempo, strong TT and few chances taken.. (before his win obviously)
I dunno if they somehow had similarly "doping styles" but funny enough both are often described as "real" talents.. Whatever that is...
Evans behaviour did not damage him at all. In today's society when flashing your **** every few weeks and making a sex tape is a calculated career move, Evans behaviour is small potatoes. When people are constantly passing emails and videos to each other in the name of entertainment which is usually bad behaviour or something strange Evans was a mini celebrity for a while and now it is forgotten except by the dedicated cycling fan. What he did is seen by most as entertainment while years ago he probably would have been asked for a please explain by officials. His behaviour did not have any effects at all with his sponsor or whoever and that probably says more about today's society than it does about Evans.

His outburst with the dog was weird, the one with journalists stepping on his bike after a stage was more understandable and the one with a journalist touching him on the shoulder after a heavy fall was a misunderstanding. There were others of course but even now Evans still seems out of place being interviewed, he is just not comfortable being in the public eye even though he is more relaxed than he used to be.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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D-Queued said:
I know what you're saying, but it really is as simple as I suggest.

Cycling is effectively unique in how sponsor logos are displayed prominently on the athletes clothing.

Whenever the athlete gains coverage, the sponsors are rewarded.

Sponsor fees are calibrated to the size of the logo on the clothing, and can even include team naming rights. Thus, sponsors pay professional cycles in order to generate 'impressions'.*

Such explicit commercialization is even frowned on, restricted or banned in other professional sports. Those other sports benefiting from gate receipts, food and beverage sales, and TV/radio rights to cover access controlled events.

Objective = as many impressions as possible

Effective strategies to achieve impressions include winning races, standing on podiums, long solo breakaways, intermediate sprints, TT prowess, mountain top placings, etc.

Anything that monopolizes the coverage, in a positive fashion, works.

Dave.

* please recall that this is more or less the entire defense case put forward by Lance with respect to USPS and the Qui Tam case.
USPS = inverted annuity for posterity. = significant liabilities

how bout them impressions <strikethru> apples
 

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