Find a clean winner for major races!!

[ToreBear]

I agree with Cloxxki. The way one goes about finding the winners is open to debate. The important thing is that one searches.

The way Aso spins it, to leave the titles vacant to me is just another form of "it was all in the past, lets move on". It's just the Omerta rearing it's ugly head to "protect the sport". That ****es me off.


I believe 96,97 and 98 were the dirtiest years. Those might be years when just surviving clean was an achievement in itself. But I think even a dirty team like festina had 3? clean riders in 1998, with Bassons being the most famous.

After that I think there were more and more clean riders.

I think the clean riders are there. If all the dopers infesting the sport will allow their discovery, I think they can be identified. Not just because they deserve the recognition, but because we need to know. Cycling can't move on with a giant black hole from 1991 to 200x.

But first it's time for the Lance years.


This was in a newspaper back in august:
http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/artikkel.php?artid=10068156


Names to scrutinize.
Daniele Nardello 1999 2000
Wladimir Belli 1999
(Andrej Kivilev Died before he was caught?) 2001
Francois Simon 2001

Carlos Sastre 2002 2003? 2004
Haimar Zubeldia 2003
Cadel Evans 2005

Red is caught for doping.
Yellow is strongly linked to doping.
Green is never having been directly suspected of doping.

Start from the top and scrutinize each name. The real winners might not be these guys, but I'm sure they can be found lower down on the list.

 

[Cloxxki]

It's OK if few riders raise their hand to be considered for one or multiple TdF wins. More prize money for them. They're the true hero's of 90's and 00's cycling. They competed clean despite pressure, ridicule and poverty.

Hopefully a rider comes forward saying that he's currently been considered a doper, but in fact didn't do anything. The scrutiny process will be interesting.

Other level of proof is required to pass on a win than to declare someone a doper. ASO seems to be unwise also commercially to make this one big downer. They could have a Frenchman winning some, for crying out loud! And, supported by other riders and fans from all over the world! Guess what, a French rider not being hated, but commened for his courange and true Olympic heart.

Even if ASO insists to kill the decade, I'd like to be part of a movement seeking the worthy winners of major races of the Armstrong era. Also-ran becomes winnen, lantern rouge takes second. I can live with that.

With truth, we should also be served a happy ending. We can't make the movie of the dark era and let the last scenes be with Lacrimosa as the soundtrack.

 

[Cloxxki]

Anyone else still passionate about this?
IMO the lost era was just an era of fewer, and less know true heroes.
ASO should be addressed, and overwhelmed, in calls for naming a clean winner for Armstrong's years. It's too much honor to the piece of filth to keep "his" space vacated until eternity.
Much rather I'd see an unknown name there, and 50 years from now someone will look him up and hear how many dopers were passed to find this clean winner.
It's a lost era, if we fail to acknowledge its dark truths, and don't come up with a positive note.

CROWN THE CLEAN!!!!

 

[del1962]

I think the problem is that if the dopers where not doping the whole thing would have taken on a completely different perspective, lots of new riders competing like say Scott Mercier
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I think the problem is that if the dopers where not doping the whole thing would have taken on a completely different perspective, lots of new riders competing like say Scott Mercier
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514

for the 90s yes. for the 2000s now. the best riders still rode up front mostly. except some wouldn't have dominated as much like pharmstrong and basso.

 

[skippy]

" ASO " has to announce on the 24th October that they ALONE decide who is welcome at the Grand Depart in Corsica !

They need to state that ANY Team Member must " State " at risk of Perjury and LIFE TIME BAN , that they do not DOPE or engage in any conspiracy that involves SPORTING FRAUD !

HOW THEY MAKE THIS WORK , remains for the experts to decide !

Of course it would be easier to ignore what has taken place since 1990 !

"Scots law " & " 150watts of awesome " were two blogs thatspeculated on replacing lance and i included in my post about Cadel winning in 2005 !

 

[Bratam]

Jan Ullrich Olympic Roadrace 2000

I'll never forget that race. Saw him blitz them with my own eyes. He looked incredibly lean and muscular. He also should have won the time trial gold a few days later except that Ekimov, who beat him by 8 seconds had the advantage of starting much earlier in the day and thereby had an estimated 30+ second wind advantage (it was reported at the time). Not to mention that Ekimov was USPS rider and potentially had the same assistance as Armstrong who took the bronze in the TT.

 

[Cloxxki]

ASO is like a broken record, they want to close this deal in a matter of days. No winners.
A great disjustice to those brave and strong enough to contend as the rules stated.

We need to send out a signal to future generations of competitors, that it's honerable to race clean. And that true Olympians are eventually recognized until eternity. We need to find the rightfull winners to all the vacated titles.
We can't have this dark era with vacated titles, and the originals winners grey'd out, like really they were the winners, just not officially.
We NEED to take a stand for clean cycling. It has been right there, just seriously under-represented.

Recently I took part in a road run, over 5k. Nothing special. 3 leaders, just out of sight for both the moto and me, cheated themselves out of 400-600m by cutting the course on a narrow piece of land between 2 water. I was placed 4th at the time, and decided to wait for a marshall to indicate I had reached the turnaround point.
Guess what, officials talked ot the 3, not me, and they got to do the podium and cups thing. The only ones who cheated, got to win. Very, very bad example to sports. Everyone knew their times were impossible for them, and will never be reached in all of their careers. Yet, it cutting served them well. Even 3rd place who ended up losing 2 minutes to the "winner", stayed well out of my reach. We'll never know how he'd gone through 500m of extra road....

I can imagine how the clean finishers for those races feel. Even the DNF's, due to exhaustion. It's not like the TdF or some classic is a free ride at the back of the peloton. Not when there are cobbles, crosswinds, or altitude to negotiate.

We need winners for the dark era, and we need to get vocal!

 

[maxmartin]

Thomas de Gendt, that is my boy!!!

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...encourages-fans-with-100-clean-statement.aspx

 

[Cloxxki]

I'm more interested in the so-called lost era. The stuff the blue blazers want to go away, no winners. The moral winners are out there! So let's find them, and make a case to the blue blazers to crown them as the kings they are.

 

[martinvickers]

I'm more interested in the so-called lost era. The stuff the blue blazers want to go away, no winners. The moral winners are out there! So let's find them, and make a case to the blue blazers to crown them as the kings they are.

I'm afriad i can't agree. Because in the end, the Tour is also a tactical race, and the 9th, 10th, 27th placed clean riders did not take part in race winning tactics - if they had realised they were in fact, at the business end of the race, they would inevitably have raced differently...not taking it easier on a final Col, keeping an eye on the guys 6 places in front, but in truth your main rival for yellow - it just doesn't - sadly - work that way.

 

[Cloxxki]

I'm afriad i can't agree. Because in the end, the Tour is also a tactical race, and the 9th, 10th, 27th placed clean riders did not take part in race winning tactics - if they had realised they were in fact, at the business end of the race, they would inevitably have raced differently...not taking it easier on a final Col, keeping an eye on the guys 6 places in front, but in truth your main rival for yellow - it just doesn't - sadly - work that way.

You're unfortunately right on the tactics. I hate that part about cycling actually. Just shows there's not enough TT's and climbs in a grand tour.
Anyways, if there is a clean helper who somehow finished before a clean #1, I am cool with that, also the other way around. It's a bike race, the rules are known to everyone. Those who dope are deleted from the race's results. He left on top, won the frickin' race. And yeah, it's likely going to be a domestique, not even a leader. Because in those EPO/BB days, if a domestique (good enough to make the time limit on a climbing TT) doped like they nearly all did, he'd be faster than a LeMond type riding clean.
Clean domestiques were expected to pull for doped up leaders. Let's crown one the winner, if he is the one coming out on top. Don't care if he was 107th or 129th. It's a race. Results are kept. Also for those way out of contention.

 

[skidmark]

I'm afriad i can't agree. Because in the end, the Tour is also a tactical race, and the 9th, 10th, 27th placed clean riders did not take part in race winning tactics - if they had realised they were in fact, at the business end of the race, they would inevitably have raced differently...not taking it easier on a final Col, keeping an eye on the guys 6 places in front, but in truth your main rival for yellow - it just doesn't - sadly - work that way.

This is why I also can't focus too much on finding a 'winner' (although I think the quest to identify and celebrate clean athletes in that time is worthy, as that was a dark, dark time). I actually think that the biggest disgrace in cycling in the last 15 years in terms of results was not a DQ and reshuffling of the leaderboard, but rather the 2007 Tour when Rasmussen was removed after all the mountain stages. What a bungle - Contador wins by 23 seconds, when he gained at least that amount on the field by having Rasmussen to pace with him on the climbs in the last week when they leapt away. It just meant that he got the advantage of racing with a rider who actually 'wasn't there', results-wise.

 

[martinvickers]

This is why I also can't focus too much on finding a 'winner' (although I think the quest to identify and celebrate clean athletes in that time is worthy, as that was a dark, dark time). I actually think that the biggest disgrace in cycling in the last 15 years in terms of results was not a DQ and reshuffling of the leaderboard, but rather the 2007 Tour when Rasmussen was removed after all the mountain stages. What a bungle - Contador wins by 23 seconds, when he gained at least that amount on the field by having Rasmussen to pace with him on the climbs in the last week when they leapt away. It just meant that he got the advantage of racing with a rider who actually 'wasn't there', results-wise.

I agree with sentiment, but have set out why in practice I'm not sure it's worth the bother (not least because we may find out next year the 'clean' winner was doped like a chicago moll) - award the 99 yellow to Christope Bassons, the 00 yellow to the ''unknown clean cyclist" - leave the rest blank - statement made

 

[skippy]

In my comment #32 , I advised two sites that disclose “ Possible solutions “ to this quandary ? Now that we know that ASO regard only 1999 to 2005 as questionable it becomes necessary for an “ Amnesty in ALL SPORTS “ before any Cyclists will clear their consciences . Agree with Cloxxki that ASO are not interested in working on a solution , BUT , ALL true Cycling Fans , though they don’t count to the organisers , deserve an answer ?

Until there is a venue that , the likes of Sean Yates & Mick Rogers , can indicate their Questionable past according to “ Clinic participants , no other candidates for the “ vacated TDF titles “ could be considered 100% acceptable ?

With this in mind , I would suggest that “ clinic members join in signing on at :

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/wada-create-an-amnesty-in-all-sports#

There is enough Clinic Visitors " evidence " to confirm that Sport is run for the benefit of " Criminal Syndicates " . This is further confirmed by :

" WORLD TRAFFIC IN DOPING SUBSTANCES " by Alessandro Donati

We all know that John Swanson and others , have already disclosed their identity in other threads , but , if enough of you have the courage displayed in the “ forum , you will add yourselves !

Dear Wiggo tried to leave comment on your enjoyable blogs , to no avail .

Mods : To sign in , it NOW means going to “ Log IN “ , you arrive back on the “ Cyclingnews News Page “ , BUT , after completing details , you arrive back at the thread , BUT the news page which costs 2MB at 16b/sec , has disappeared . NOW we know we are supposed to read the news , so why this ? Doesn’t encourage advertisers that we have NO chance to see the ad ?


http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/wada-create-an-amnesty-in-all-sports#