FLandis Racing in Nevada City

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Anonymous

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cody251 said:
Wow, you took time to look me up! Thanks for making my day. I'm sure with a few more hours you can dig up all my other "fanboy" posts. OMG he rides a Trek! It was a gift, it rides nice, so what??
Wow, not only are you a fanboy, but you don't know how to use the easily accessible forum search tools. Why, it took me all of 30 seconds to find the post...AMAZING!!! Hey, not only that, but I did it using this thing called "wifi." Yea, yea, I mean, my laptop wasn't even connected to anything...crazy...

As for the fanboy bike, well, papa gonna bet there is some USPS/Discovery apparel in your cycling drawer...or at least in your past. Most of that was cheap crap, and cheap crap wears out pretty quickly, so probably you wore it out on your Saturday group ride. Then again, maybe you kept some for special occasions only...

No, I don't read minds, it just seems like I do.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Wow, not only are you a fanboy, but you don't know how to use the easily accessible forum search tools. Why, it took me all of 30 seconds to find the post...AMAZING!!! Hey, not only that, but I did it using this thing called "wifi." Yea, yea, I mean, my laptop wasn't even connected to anything...crazy...

As for the fanboy bike, well, papa gonna bet there is some USPS/Discovery apparel in your cycling drawer...or at least in your past. Most of that was cheap crap, and cheap crap wears out pretty quickly, so probably you wore it out on your Saturday group ride. Then again, maybe you kept some for special occasions only...

No, I don't read minds, it just seems like I do.
Okay, my turn. You on Landis:
Thoughtforfood said:
Hey genius, he didn't win the TdF. He cheated and then lied about it like the little junkie he is, and he was stripped of his title. He is an unrepentant needle freak who will use junk as long as he can get away with it.
Again, what now, makes FLandis so believable, honest and easy to support?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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cody251 said:
Again, what now, makes FLandis so believable,
It is not like Landis told us anything we did not already know. The UCI payoff, the blood doping, Ferrari being involved. I heard the story of him babysitting the fridge about 5 years ago. After OP, The Vienna Blood lab, the labs in Valencia and Portugal, Manzano, etc.

What Floyd said should be no surprise to anyone who has followed cycling for the last 10 years.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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cody251 said:
Okay, my turn. You on Landis:


Again, what now, makes FLandis so believable, honest and easy to support?
That's funny :D

I often think people tend to describe themselves when they're abusing people without reason, if you imagine they're talking about themselves, it can be surprisingly accurate.
e.g. a poster who constantly diminishes others intelligence...
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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cody251 said:
Okay, my turn. You on Landis:

Again, what now, makes FLandis so believable, honest and easy to support?
Ok, you were addressing that to this comment:
Originally Posted by Thoughtforfood

Hey genius, he didn't win the TdF. He cheated and then lied about it like the little junkie he is, and he was stripped of his title. He is an unrepentant needle freak who will use junk as long as he can get away with it.
Perhaps you missed it - but Floyd has confessed that throughout his career (& including his TdF 'victory') he was using a vast array of PED's.

So, TFF's above post is correct - because now Floyd has 'repented'.
Does this mean that everything Floyd says is 100% true? No, but almost all if what he has said thus far is merely confirming what has been well known within the sport for a long time.

If any of Floyd's statements come as a surprise then I suggest you use the search link within 'The Clinic' which I trust will answer any of your questions.
 
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Anonymous

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cody251 said:
Okay, my turn. You on Landis:


Again, what now, makes FLandis so believable, honest and easy to support?
As I have stated many times regarding him and riders like Joe Papp. Having been clean and sober for 19 years, I value the point at which a person comes clean about themselves. I have seen thousands of people do that, and my inclination for FLandis is that he is being honestly open. I could be wrong. I have been wrong about things like that before. However, my experience is that the greatest majority of people who open up that much are genuine in their contrition and want to move on to a better life. Doping has many parallels to addictive drug usage. It is part of the reason I knew The Uniballer was a doping cheat when he chased down Simeoni. People who have something to hide do sh!t like that. Seen it a thousand times also.

I also, on a personal level accept that my judgments many times are wrong, just as are everyone's. In the case of FLandis, I don't think I am, but only one person really knows the answer, and my experience tells me that even he may not fully understand why he did what he did. There very well could be good motives mixed with bad ones. Pretty common. In fact, I would suggest that it is the rule rather than the exception. That is just how people are built.

As for you, please note that you came in swinging at me. I don't know who you are or what your deal is, and quite frankly, it really isn't that important. Funny thing is that I must not be that far off the mark. Hey, I give as good as I take, and I have no reason to back down from someone so obviously bent on striking out. You want to play nice, I have no problem with that. You want to engage me in a verbal boxing match, and I am game. From the tale of the tape thus far, you are getting your a$$ kicked. Maybe you should stop.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Ok enough flaming here. Use PM to continue your discussion. The one to do it here will receive infractions.

And take the PED discussion to the clinic. Ample space, and already lots of threads.

Please. :)
 
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Bala Verde said:
Ok enough flaming here. Use PM to continue your discussion. The one to do it here will receive infractions.

And take the PED discussion to the clinic. Ample space, and already lots of threads.

Please. :)
Okay, I am willing. I ask that you leave my previous post up because I do address FLandis, and I would also like Cody to know that if he wants to stop the boxing match, I am very willing to do so.

Sorry you had to delete so much stuff. I knew when I posted the thread that it would be a bit contentious. There was certainly some animosity at the actual race.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
<snipped>

I knew when I posted the thread that it would be a bit contentious. There was certainly some animosity at the actual race.
TFF, thanks for posting the pictures. I wanted to ask about the response to Floyd at the race. How was he received by the fans, and could you tell how the peloton treated him?
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Beech Mtn said:
TFF, thanks for posting the pictures. I wanted to ask about the response to Floyd at the race. How was he received by the fans, and could you tell how the peloton treated him?
Kind of interesting how Floyd was booed at the start as he was announced. I do not understand the logic of those louts, I do not like Floyd anymore but I would be polite to him. Americans, they think they are at WWF or Friday nights at the fights. Makes me ashamed to be one. Whenever I go abroad I try to respect the cultures and I do not act up ever. Same here in good old Cal-I For-ni A.
 
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Beech Mtn said:
TFF, thanks for posting the pictures. I wanted to ask about the response to Floyd at the race. How was he received by the fans, and could you tell how the peloton treated him?
There were some boo's but applause too when he was called up. I was surprised they called him up. We were on the lower part of the hill at first, and there were a few "GO FLOYD" shouts. I cheered him 4 or 5 times. We moved to the top of the hill toward the end, and one guy yelled "GO HOME FLOYD" to which I yelled "GO FLOYD" staring straight at the guy who showed his displeasure.

The riders seemed to regard him as just another guy in the race. On his cool-down, riders were talking to him. Seemed like race talk by the gestures. I did see one guy with "Ride Clean" on his shorts, so maybe he was okay with Floyd being there. I did see several people with yellow on, and a house with a "Radio Shack HQ" written on cardboard. Also, just after the top of the hill, someone wrote "Radio Shack" in chalk on the street...though there were no Radio Shack riders in the race.

There was a guy in full Quick Step kit riding who got shelled by the second lap. I couldn't figure out who he was, but turns out Quick Step sponsors some regional team in the area according to one of the guys on the street.

It was cool, and looked to me like Floyd just wanted to race his bike. In fact, seems like he just wanted to lay low and race and that was it.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Okay, I am willing. I ask that you leave my previous post up because I do address FLandis, and I would also like Cody to know that if he wants to stop the boxing match, I am very willing to do so.

Sorry you had to delete so much stuff. I knew when I posted the thread that it would be a bit contentious. There was certainly some animosity at the actual race.
Actually your posts re race and photos are not the contentious part at all. Thanks for those. It's the constant initiation of said 'boxing matches' that is.

But like I said, thanks for the thread related posts. Good to know Landis is out doing his thing.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Thanks for the race info. Sounds like it was a good race. From the livestream, it looked hard-fought, but was also hard to tell what was going on sometimes, as the camera work was not really set up to follow a group around and gauge whether a gap was growing or shrinking, who was attacking, etc.

I did see several people with yellow on
Good to know there were Contador fans at the race - I'm glad he's getting some representation here in the US despite the media blackout. ;)
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Beech Mtn said:
Thanks for the race info. Sounds like it was a good race. From the livestream, it looked hard-fought, but was also hard to tell what was going on sometimes, as the camera work was not really set up to follow a group around and gauge whether a gap was growing or shrinking, who was attacking, etc.


Good to know there were Contador fans at the race - I'm glad he's getting some representation here in the US despite the media blackout. ;)
Contador fans at Nevada City? That is bizarre.
 
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progressor said:
Actually your posts re race and photos are not the contentious part at all. Thanks for those. It's the constant initiation of said 'boxing matches' that is.

But like I said, thanks for the thread related posts. Good to know Landis is out doing his thing.
I didn't initiate it. But I did defend myself. Well.

You're welcome for the other stuff.
 
eleven said:
Indeed, he claims the test was somehow wrong. That's an important distinction. But If you're trying to clean up the sport, continuing to claim that you received a false positive for the substance that got you banned is, well....Not a productive step towards your goal.

He just gives fodder to every rider out there who blames a false positive for his ban. Maybe his attorneys found implications if he confessed on that part? Who knows.
No offense, but what Landis is claiming is no different than what I've had to contend, which is that the substance that I supposedly tested positive for in 2006 didn't correspond to any doping product that I was taking. I had EPO, HGH, cortisone and other peptide hormones in my body, yet my urine sample was declared positive for "testosterone or its metabolites."

I didn't intentionally use testosterone in any form...yet I accepted the sanction because I was cheating via other methods. Yet I'm not going to admit to using testosterone intentionally during that race (the 2006 Tour of Turkey) - because I wasn't.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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joe_papp said:
No offense, but what Landis is claiming is no different than what I've had to contend, which is that the substance that I supposedly tested positive for in 2006 didn't correspond to any doping product that I was taking. I had EPO, HGH, cortisone and other peptide hormones in my body, yet my urine sample was declared positive for "testosterone or its metabolites."

I didn't intentionally use testosterone in any form...yet I accepted the sanction because I was cheating via other methods. Yet I'm not going to admit to using testosterone intentionally during that race (the 2006 Tour of Turkey) - because I wasn't.
This actually explains a lot about Landis--if this is the situation he was in, then his fight to prove the lab got it wrong makes sense--he knew the product they caught him for was one of the few he didn't take. That would have given him hope for a reversal of the result, based on faulty science. Which of course doesn't make his fight to prove he rightfully won the Tour any less dishonest, but if gives it a more factual basis.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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I always wondered whether Floyd was so p!ssed because he was a high profile winner who got caught, and the precedent had been in place for the UCI to cover up positives by high profile winners.

We know about LA's backdated TUE for corticosteroids at the '99 Tour, and we know about Brochard testing positive at the race where he won the World Championship. In both of those cases, UCI appears to have happily allowed the teams to cover up the positive with a back-dated TUE, so the positives went away as if they had never happened. UCI kept its World Champion, and no scandal erupted.

But then here comes Floyd, who had just won the Tour and wasn't given the same special treatment by the UCI. It was like any other small-time guy who won a stage of some unimportant race. Floyd's positive became public immediately and his career went down the tubes. I can see how he might be bitter at UCI and AFLD, and feel singled-out.
 
Wallace said:
This actually explains a lot about Landis--if this is the situation he was in, then his fight to prove the lab got it wrong makes sense--he knew the product they caught him for was one of the few he didn't take. That would have given him hope for a reversal of the result, based on faulty science. Which of course doesn't make his fight to prove he rightfully won the Tour any less dishonest, but if gives it a more factual basis.
I'm not defending the behavior at all (just to be clear) - but I think it's valuable to understand the mentality and what could be the basis for engaging in a fundamentally dishonest campaign that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and resulted in an outcome no better than if he'd just accepted the sanction to begin with...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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joe_papp said:
No offense, but what Landis is claiming is no different than what I've had to contend, which is that the substance that I supposedly tested positive for in 2006 didn't correspond to any doping product that I was taking. I had EPO, HGH, cortisone and other peptide hormones in my body, yet my urine sample was declared positive for "testosterone or its metabolites."

I didn't intentionally use testosterone in any form...yet I accepted the sanction because I was cheating via other methods. Yet I'm not going to admit to using testosterone intentionally during that race (the 2006 Tour of Turkey) - because I wasn't.
joe_papp said:
I'm not defending the behavior at all (just to be clear) - but I think it's valuable to understand the mentality and what could be the basis for engaging in a fundamentally dishonest campaign that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and resulted in an outcome no better than if he'd just accepted the sanction to begin with...
Joe,

This is very enlightening...I was wondering if this were a possible reason for his statements about 2006...and this seems very much to validate his statements.

I may be speaking for myself here, but you are more than welcome to share this insight with all the dudes on here who keep insisting he's lying now because he was lying then...
 
flyor64 said:
Joe,

This is very enlightening...I was wondering if this were a possible reason for his statements about 2006...and this seems very much to validate his statements.

I may be speaking for myself here, but you are more than welcome to share this insight with all the dudes on here who keep insisting he's lying now because he was lying then...
I'm glad that you find it to be of value. Though I'll be the first to admit that this part of the discussion is trending towards a topic that should be shifted to the clinic, as you seem to realize the doping game within the bike game takes place on a field where there is a significant amount of moral relativism and self-deceit. Trust me, it *seemed* at the time to be perfectly logical and normal to plan to fight the charges against me of doping based on the fact that what the lab supposedly caught me with wasn't something that I'd ever knowingly taken.

Of course, it was only a few months later that my thinking shifted from "They couldn't catch me for using the products I actually used so why shouldn't I try to get out of this?" to "I've been getting away with this for so long that I should give them credit for having caught me with something, even if I really didn't knowingly take it - after all I've been a serial cheat for many years."
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
I didn't initiate it. But I did defend myself. Well.

You're welcome for the other stuff.
I called you a hypocrite, which you admitted and said you didn't care. You called me a moron re: blackmail which you later conceded with additional pressure. How am I starting a boxing match? And how did you "defend yourself well"? You win, I don't want visit the forums, hence the reason I kept off of them for near a year. I know I will be sorely missed by you but I'm sure you can find some other fellow to pretend you owned so you can continue to toot your own vuvzela. :D
 
Mar 10, 2009
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joe_papp said:
I'm glad that you find it to be of value. Though I'll be the first to admit that this part of the discussion is trending towards a topic that should be shifted to the clinic, as you seem to realize the doping game within the bike game takes place on a field where there is a significant amount of moral relativism and self-deceit. Trust me, it *seemed* at the time to be perfectly logical and normal to plan to fight the charges against me of doping based on the fact that what the lab supposedly caught me with wasn't something that I'd ever knowingly taken.

Of course, it was only a few months later that my thinking shifted from "They couldn't catch me for using the products I actually used so why shouldn't I try to get out of this?" to "I've been getting away with this for so long that I should give them credit for having caught me with something, even if I really didn't knowingly take it - after all I've been a serial cheat for many years."
Forgive me for not reading enough to know your full story but thanks for the insight. I wish more riders had the later thinking.
 
cody251 said:
Forgive me for not reading enough to know your full story but thanks for the insight. I wish more riders had the later thinking.
No problem. I'm happy to have the chance to share a more intimate perspective on doping than is typically accessible to other riders and fans who've not been exposed to drug-use directly.

That said, I think Landis showed his natural class as a bike rider by delivering a very respectable performance at Nevada City with almost no training whatsoever. I liked the suggestion that someone made about Floyd potentially focusing on ultra-endurance MTB racing? Looking at the ongoing success of a rider like Ned Overend, why shouldn't Landis expect to be able to compete domestically for the foreseeable future, were he so inclined? I think though that it's probably a question of desire or motivation. I don't want to speak for Floyd but if he can deliver a top-5 at Nevada City without even training for it (and certainly w/o doping), then he could reasonably expect to continue to compete at the national level here in the USA even while working a full-time job, for example.

Anyway, just my $0.02 for the day...
 

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