Floyd

[Animal]

If it's the Testoserone:Epitestosterone ratio we are talking about failing, then I too was very sceptical of his claims at first.

However I remember at the time a doctor friend of mine who also performs bioassays was saying that apparently the absolute values in the sample were so low that the ratio was not entirely reliable. It could be that he is telling the truth about that.

 

[sniper]

If it's the Testoserone:Epitestosterone ratio we are talking about failing, then I too was very sceptical of his claims at first.

However I remember at the time a doctor friend of mine who also performs bioassays was saying that apparently the absolute values in the sample were so low that the ratio was not entirely reliable. It could be that he is telling the truth about that.

There is no doubt in my mind that Landis is telling the truth and nothing but the truth (at least what he believes to be the truth; of course, he could be making small mistakes about the chronology and exact dates of events or other details).
It's about this 'coming clean' thing. If you look into the guy's eyes, you feel he needed to come clean, but really come clean. If I see and remember Landis, I am convinced that with 'coming clean', he meant 'coming clean' all the frikkin' way. This guy doesn't have nothing left to hide, lost all his pride, so to regain some of that pride, he's coming clean in the true sense. Whether there is frustration, depression and anger involved in Floyd's decision to come clean, I don't know. Probably, but that doesn't change my intuitive confidence in what the guy's saying, including the testosteron-case.

 

[scribe]

Before this thread, I thought that the whole "I didn't dope in Mercury or when I was 2nd in the Dauphiné" thing was more unbelievable than the bit about the testosterone. Maybe Landis, like other doped riders, needs to think he could do it clean or something.

There is a certain value to having the public/peers believe that you are/were an absolute elite athlete in your discipline.

 

[Epicycle]

There is a certain value to having the public/peers believe that you are/were an absolute elite athlete in your discipline.

Yeah Ben Johnson still says he stopped taking steroids 6 weeks before the Olympics and claims he tested positive because his drink was spiked. Johnson believes he was naturally that fast, he says steroids were just a placebo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/oct/05/ben-johnson-drugs-olympics

 

[fatandfast]

I don't think he would lie about this now purely for monetary reason - he hasn't got any anyway! And you can't cut the hairs of a bald man...

To me it does actually seem like he genuinely doesn't know where the testo came from during the tour. He's completely up front with the fact he used it prior to the Tour and that he used other stuff during the Tour.

If he's lying about it now it must be something more problematic than simply money - maybe to do with all the hoo-hah around the lab-hacking, claims of fraud and so on?

I also think it's interesting he still very much has a beef with the authorities about how dope cases are run. Although he's happy to say "yeah, I did it", he clearly feels accused cyclists are treated unfairly in the process.

Landis needs to stay on point. When he came out about Armstrong that was his zero line (LBL,Landis before Lance story LAL,Landis after Lance story). From that point forward his story right/wrong/negative/positive must stay straight with the new set of facts that he now proclaimed as absolutely true. He and his financial future however dim rely on being asked by everybody about doping. Landis is holding on to the remote hope of getting a reward from his government cooperation. Nobody wants Landis to ride w or for them, nobody wants his services as a coach or team assistant and there is no interest in retelling his temp tour victory story . He is a Lance dope expert and nothing else..if this special knowledge turns out to be of little value he will be worth less. He should sell his organs that will determine his worth as a person,,just meat no soul. As with DiLuca and others there is no standard treatment of convicted and accused racers Landis is probably looking on still shaking his head

 

[RTMcFadden]

If it's the Testoserone:Epitestosterone ratio we are talking about failing, then I too was very sceptical of his claims at first.

However I remember at the time a doctor friend of mine who also performs bioassays was saying that apparently the absolute values in the sample were so low that the ratio was not entirely reliable. It could be that he is telling the truth about that.

Exactly. The Testosterone level was borderline low, and the Epitestosterone level was almost undetectable. A simple understanding of mathematics will tell you that based upon the absolute numbers, any meaning derived from the ratio should be treated with skepticism.

 

[JPM London]

Yeah Ben Johnson still says he stopped taking steroids 6 weeks before the Olympics and claims he tested positive because his drink was spiked. Johnson believes he was naturally that fast, he says steroids were just a placebo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/oct/05/ben-johnson-drugs-olympics

You mean to say that Ben Johnson thinks he came to look like the incredible hulk by eating placebos? Well, I don't want to argue with someone that big anyway, so I'll just quietly agree...

 

[Altitude]

Landis needs to stay on point. When he came out about Armstrong that was his zero line (LBL,Landis before Lance story LAL,Landis after Lance story). From that point forward his story right/wrong/negative/positive must stay straight with the new set of facts that he now proclaimed as absolutely true. He and his financial future however dim rely on being asked by everybody about doping. Landis is holding on to the remote hope of getting a reward from his government cooperation. Nobody wants Landis to ride w or for them, nobody wants his services as a coach or team assistant and there is no interest in retelling his temp tour victory story . He is a Lance dope expert and nothing else..if this special knowledge turns out to be of little value he will be worth less. He should sell his organs that will determine his worth as a person,,just meat no soul. As with DiLuca and others there is no standard treatment of convicted and accused racers Landis is probably looking on still shaking his head

Yeah, I suspected that after his first goal was attained (we all know what that was), he now would like to be able to make some sort of career in the anti-doping field-- which of course will never happen because like you said, nobody wants to roll w/ FLandis.

 

[flicker]

Landis needs to stay on point. When he came out about Armstrong that was his zero line (LBL,Landis before Lance story LAL,Landis after Lance story). From that point forward his story right/wrong/negative/positive must stay straight with the new set of facts that he now proclaimed as absolutely true. He and his financial future however dim rely on being asked by everybody about doping. Landis is holding on to the remote hope of getting a reward from his government cooperation. Nobody wants Landis to ride w or for them, nobody wants his services as a coach or team assistant and there is no interest in retelling his temp tour victory story . He is a Lance dope expert and nothing else..if this special knowledge turns out to be of little value he will be worth less. He should sell his organs that will determine his worth as a person,,just meat no soul. As with DiLuca and others there is no standard treatment of convicted and accused racers Landis is probably looking on still shaking his

Someone betrayed Floyd. He made some big enemies in the peloton to end up where he is now. He is OK in my book now though. Maybe he could get a job for GREENPEACE?

 

[joe_papp]

I don't think he would lie about this now purely for monetary reason - he hasn't got any anyway! And you can't cut the hairs of a bald man...

To me it does actually seem like he genuinely doesn't know where the testo came from during the tour. He's completely up front with the fact he used it prior to the Tour and that he used other stuff during the Tour....

Not to chime in again, and not to automatically support FLandis, but...

I can't say definitively where the test. metabolites in my sample came from. Doping is a science, but it's not an exact one. And even when you're trying to be as exacting as you can, it's not like in the aftermath of a failed test you have a research study's worth of data to fall back on and analyze to figure out what went wrong. Even Fuentes tried to create a disconnect between his riders' data and their identities. The less record-keeping the better...

 

[Cloxxki]

Someone betrayed Floyd. He made some big enemies in the peloton to end up where he is now. He is OK in my book now though. Maybe he could get a job for GREENPEACE?

You seem to be unaware of the fact that Greenpeace is no longer a charity, but merely a propaganda machine for the EU, although for good form it still accepts donations?
They used to be oh so edgy, badmouthed to be terrorists claiming a good cause, and now all the top suits make a serious face and nod when Greenpeace comes out with outrageous CO2 stories. The Greenpeace we used to root for, is no more. 5 years ago, I came *this* close to volunteering for them. And shorter ago, I came *this* close to offering Lance a business deal he would not have been able to refuse. Fate has been good to me.

Sorry for the off-topic venture.

 

[TubularBills]

You seem to be unaware of the fact that Greenpeace is no longer a charity, but merely a propaganda machine for the EU, although for good form it still accepts donations?
They used to be oh so edgy, badmouthed to be terrorists claiming a good cause, and now all the top suits make a serious face and nod when Greenpeace comes out with outrageous CO2 stories. The Greenpeace we used to root for, is no more. 5 years ago, I came *this* close to volunteering for them. And shorter ago, I came *this* close to offering Lance a business deal he would not have been able to refuse. Fate has been good to me.

Sorry for the off-topic venture.

OT... but a viable alternative to GP and more aligned with a FLandis approach:

http://www.seashepherd.org/

 

[thehog]

I cannot keep up with the sheer mass of posts on this site.

None the less the missing link in the Floyd case......

There is NO big deal whatsoever in Armstrong and co. doping. Trust me. 1999-2005 was fair game. A lot of guys were doping to a high degree. 1999 not so much but 2000 onwards was game on. Everyone in cycling including the UCI knew this was the case.

What is a little bigger is Floyds positive. Landis never should have tested positive but he did. What's most surprising he tested positive for a substance that he didn't even use. If only he had the opportunity to present his case at the time of "yes I was doping but no I wasn't using testosterone at the point I tested positive". Alas he didn't. Well he couldn't. Hindsight.

So why did he test positive? Floyd doesn't know. But he did come into some information about a 10 months ago which helped him come clean and start asking some more interesting questions. Believe me I know. What you saw in the 1st email barely scratches the surface. If only the Feds didn't get involved. We may have seen the rest. Or maybe we will? No one wonder Lance has a gone so quite. Where are you man?