Forget this years Giro: who were the top three last year?????

[Wattie]

All we need now is for Denis Menchov to fall foul of the Biological Passport and all three from last year's Giro podium will have been caught out. If it goes on at this rate Carlos Sastre might end up winning it. Seriously though, this Peliizotti story is not good news: still at least we know the man leading the world rankings isn't a cheat, oh erm hang on a minute....

 

[luckyboy]

Looking at the top 10, it'd be surprising if any of them were clean..

 

[adambarnes]

its the giro, of course the top 3 are dirty

 

[BroDeal]

its the giro, of course the top 3 are dirty

Luckily the sport was cleaned up by the time the Tour rolled around. No dopers there. Uncle McQuaid told me so.

 

[luckyboy]

its a professional cycling race, of course the top 3 are dirty

 

[aarnold517]

Looking at the top 10, it'd be surprising if any of them were clean..

you mean the top 12? *ducks behind wall*

 

[adambarnes]

Luckily the sport was cleaned up by the time the Tour rolled around. No dopers there. Uncle McQuaid told me so.

at least the giro was entertaining

 

[blaxland]

at least the giro was entertaining

Personally i would rather have a clean race than a entertaining one..............I want the winner's name of a grand tour to last on the records longer than 1 year??

 

[adambarnes]

well you are not going to get a clean race unfortunately

the giro was dirty and was entertaining
the tour was dirty and was not entertaining

unless you think 'soft pedalling the alps' is entertaining!

 

[Anonymous]

If francos bio passport bust was as a result of a test just prior to the tour, and the fact he was being watched SINCE i do not see that his giro result will be expunged.

 

[blaxland]

well you are not going to get a clean race unfortunately

the giro was dirty and was entertaining
the tour was dirty and was not entertaining

unless you think 'soft pedalling the alps' is entertaining!

Your opinion is welcomed but if you think anybody can soft pedal there way through the Alps,then you have never ridden them.............I still think this years Giro will be one of the cleanest...as long as they dont replace the winner for failing some sort of drug test in the months following its conclusion.(Just like last years addition)

 

[adambarnes]

Your opinion is welcomed but if you think anybody can soft pedal there way through the Alps,then you have never ridden them.............I still think this years Giro will be one of the cleanest...as long as they dont replace the winner for failing some sort of drug test in the months following its conclusion.(Just like last years addition)

did you watch the 2009 tour de france?

 

[Wallace]

I know that most of the posters here are convinced that all of Riis' riders, past and present, are on some sort of a program (and watching Fabian C. ride through Belgium with a rocket up his *** did nothing to dispel that idea), but I find it still possible to think that Sastre might be clean. He's been outspokenly anti-dope for a long time and his riding--the way he won the Tour, for instance--is not beyond credibility. If Menchov gets popped (something long overdue, in my opinion), then Sastre's slow climb to the top step of the 2009 Giro would be okay by me. Unless, of course, some evidence pops up linking Carlos to some lab/scandal/doctor/blood irregularities, etc.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Well, it appears the real winner could have been Armstrong.

 

[blaxland]

I know that most of the posters here are convinced that all of Riis' riders, past and present, are on some sort of a program (and watching Fabian C. ride through Belgium with a rocket up his *** did nothing to dispel that idea), but I find it still possible to think that Sastre might be clean. He's been outspokenly anti-dope for a long time and his riding--the way he won the Tour, for instance--is not beyond credibility. If Menchov gets popped (something long overdue, in my opinion), then Sastre's slow climb to the top step of the 2009 Giro would be okay by me. Unless, of course, some evidence pops up linking Carlos to some lab/scandal/doctor/blood irregularities, etc.

+10000000000 Wallace.....not only Sastre but also Evans......I believe these two riders to be clean..........

 

[BroDeal]

+10000000000 Wallace.....not only Sastre but also Evans......I believe these two riders to be clean..........

Oh, come on. I don't see how any rider who has been competitive in GTs for a decade could possibly have raced clean.

Sastre defended Saiz after he was busted for godsake.

 

[Wallace]

Oh, come on. I don't see how any rider who has been competitive in GTs for a decade could possibly have raced clean.

Sastre defended Saiz after he was busted for godsake.

Okay, let's go a little further with this. Let's start with Cadel Evans, a rider most people would agree has exceptional talent, drive, and discipline. What's his palmares after more than a decade of pro cycling? Two wins: a world championship and a victory in one of the classics which isn't a monument. Let's take it, for the sake of this argument, that the difference between finishing second and 142 is a lot smaller than the difference between finishing first and second, because it is--and then let's compare Cadel's lifetime palmares to any single year of Valverde's since 2006. Given than no one with one tenth of a brain thinks there's the slightest possibility Valverde's clean, it's hard not to draw the conclusion that if Cadel doped, he'd have a longer list of victories.

I know there are other factors in this--AV has a team wholly united to support him, and Cadel, until this year, has never had that. But couldn't it be interpreted that his lack of team support is due to his cleanliness? That is, his management has been reluctant to give entire support to a rider who, however much he's talented, is unwilling to go the extra necessary distance to insure victories?

I also know that I'm constructing a losing argument here, essentially saying that a rider is clean--or, to be precise, might be clean--because he doesn't win races. But I do think that not to entirely give up on the sport, you have to at least entertain the idea that some riders might possibly not be doped up to the eyebrows. Maybe I'm naive. But I do think there's a possibility Cadel and Sastre might be clean. Vino, Valverde, Lance, Levi, Menchov, and on and on.... **** them all.

 

[Fred Thistle]

**** them all.

Congratulations Wallace on your Century of posts!!! Well done!

Evans maybe clean... Sastre...find it hard to believe.

Being a nice guy doesn't mean you are clean.

This whole cultural belief 'You gotta dope to make it' has served in the past to ensure that it wasn't a moral dilemma but one of pragmatism: either they wanna be pro or not.

Road racing was 'dirty' before there were rules to say you shouldn't take rat poison.

To support the new, clean paradigm of competition we must focus on the clean-not the dirty... we must escape this pessimistic mindset so as not to infect the up and coming new generation.

Evans- as a late comer to the 'dirty' road could be the first ever clean GT winner. Exciting

 

[ludwig]

Okay, let's go a little further with this. Let's start with Cadel Evans, a rider most people would agree has exceptional talent, drive, and discipline. What's his palmares after more than a decade of pro cycling? Two wins: a world championship and a victory in one of the classics which isn't a monument. Let's take it, for the sake of this argument, that the difference between finishing second and 142 is a lot smaller than the difference between finishing first and second, because it is--and then let's compare Cadel's lifetime palmares to any single year of Valverde's since 2006. Given than no one with one tenth of a brain thinks there's the slightest possibility Valverde's clean, it's hard not to draw the conclusion that if Cadel doped, he'd have a longer list of victories.

I know there are other factors in this--AV has a team wholly united to support him, and Cadel, until this year, has never had that. But couldn't it be interpreted that his lack of team support is due to his cleanliness? That is, his management has been reluctant to give entire support to a rider who, however much he's talented, is unwilling to go the extra necessary distance to insure victories?

I also know that I'm constructing a losing argument here, essentially saying that a rider is clean--or, to be precise, might be clean--because he doesn't win races. But I do think that not to entirely give up on the sport, you have to at least entertain the idea that some riders might possibly not be doped up to the eyebrows. Maybe I'm naive. But I do think there's a possibility Cadel and Sastre might be clean. Vino, Valverde, Lance, Levi, Menchov, and on and on.... **** them all.

Have you considered the possibility that Valverde, Contador, Lance, Basso etc are simply better riders than the likes of Evans to begin with, prior to the dope? I think it's very possible. It could be that they are all doping equally and the best come out on top. It could be that there are gross inequalities in terms of doping programs. What seems certain, however, is there is no way in hell Sastre and Evans (in addition to the rest) accumulated the palmares they have dope free. If you look at their careers, neither has been on a team that could be considered clean, or where doping wasn't encouraged. I guess I'm jaded, but I've been following this sport a long time and there isn't a single Pro Tour rider that I believe is dope-free.

Really the ugliest aspect of the propaganda the cycling media encourages (ie that part of the peloton is clean, while the other is doping), is that fans naively assume the race winner is doping, while their favorite coming in at place 8 or whatever must be the best 'clean' rider. It's fandom based on the will-to-believe, or a kind of wish-fullfillment.

 

[ludwig]

To support the new, clean paradigm of competition we must focus on the clean-not the dirty... we must escape this pessimistic mindset so as not to infect the up and coming new generation.

Evans- as a late comer to the 'dirty' road could be the first ever clean GT winner. Exciting

If there are clean riders, then the most important question we fans can ask is

"Who are the clean riders and how can we support them?"

My problem is I and other fans have asked this question, over and over again, for years. Lots of names have been named, mostly based on what people wanted to believe. Lots of names later exposed as dopers and liars.

And now I'm convinced there are aren't any. The reason clean riders don't speak up for themselves is because they don't exist...not in the pro ranks anyway.

And no, this post isn't a plea for more High Road's or Slipstream's....that sort of bs just drives away the fans and kills the sport's credibility.

Perhaps the best we can do is support the testing proccesses liberally, and hope it evolves into something that has a moderating effect.

 

[Boeing]

Your opinion is welcomed but if you think anybody can soft pedal there way through the Alps,then you have never ridden them.............I still think this years Giro will be one of the cleanest...as long as they dont replace the winner for failing some sort of drug test in the months following its conclusion.(Just like last years addition)

make no mistake, it was soft pedaling tempo riding at best. Perhaps the addition of mountain top finishes will help a future edition.

I think this glass of wine will get me drunk as long as there is alcohol in it.

 

[adambarnes]

it really was sad to see the peleton just rolling over historic climbs with some guy called gregory rast on the front and absolutely no real action up the road...

what is the point of having a climb like the tourmalet in last year's tour at all?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Oh, come on. I don't see how any rider who has been competitive in GTs for a decade could possibly have raced clean.

Sastre defended Saiz after he was busted for godsake.

Has nobody considered the possibility that he did dope at one point and then stopped? It would be more difficult to ascertain with a rider like Sastre than many others because we see so little of him, but it has been noted that he comes across vehemently anti-doping, and there's no zealot worse than a convert...

 

[la.margna]

if a doper won the tour 7 times, is there any reason, why any grand tour top 50 should be clean? think! calculate! it's just math! impossible.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

if a doper won the tour 7 times, is there any reason, why any grand tour top 50 should be clean? think! calculate! it's just math! impossible.

David Moncoutié, 8th in the 2008 Vuelta. If David Moncoutié is doping, this sport is dead to me. He is my litmus test that allows me to keep the faith.