Former world champion describes riders as spineless

[Matthijs]

Scientific training and racing, HRMs, power meters, fine tuning of biological parameters, race radios and short ITTs in GTs: all this is leveling the field so now races are decided because of a crash, a flu, a gastric problem, an allergy, a flat, a chain drop or a break to have a snack at the back of the group.

and this was different in the old days? I saw a lot of story's of old champions, and a lot of history is made with crashes, flu, allergy's and even strikes, angry tifosi and so on...
Also, the radio's: if they're banned, the eighties won't come back. The organisation still has GPS-systems for time-differences, radio-contact with the motor in front of the peloton to keep the riders up-to-date within seconds and so on. The information is just much better then years back and that can't be stopped by just a radio ban guys.

 

[Chuffy]

Argentin's grumbles are the standard, off-the-peg good old days whining that old sportsmen always seem to come out with.

I seem to recall that Anquetil did the absolute bare minimum required to win races. Back in the 1920's Alfredo Binda was paid to stay away from the Giro because if he turned up he was guaranteed to win. Dear old HD was constantly trying to stop riders from collaborating because it damaged competition (in his eyes).

The only response to Argentin is to roll your eyes and offer to wheel his bath chair into a sunnier spot in the Whining Old Geezers Retirement Home garden.

 

[boardhanger]

Argentin's grumbles are the standard, off-the-peg good old days whining that old sportsmen always seem to come out with.

I seem to recall that Anquetil did the absolute bare minimum required to win races. Back in the 1920's Alfredo Binda was paid to stay away from the Giro because if he turned up he was guaranteed to win. Dear old HD was constantly trying to stop riders from collaborating because it damaged competition (in his eyes).

The only response to Argentin is to roll your eyes and offer to wheel his bath chair into a sunnier spot in the Whining Old Geezers Retirement Home garden.

The fact remains cyclist's are not as savy tatically compared to 20years ago. radios eliminate the human side of racing. Any 500 watt pumping donkey can now pound away when told. In the 'good oul days' he would need to know when and how to make his move keeping the human element alive. Tatical knowledge should be treated as an equal to fitness in racing. End of story. Fact.

 

[La Pandera]

That Contador and Andy Schleck are both equally obsessed by the July race is obvious.

Not only was Argentin an Ariostea/Gewiss doper, he's also one of the first to target a couple of races in one season.

In the late 80's, two races interested him: Liège Bastogne Liège and the Worlds, full stop.

What he says is true but he's not the right person to say it.

I can't see how you can say that they (Contador and Andy Schleck) are "equally" obsessed with the Tour when you compare their palmares over the past 3 seasons. While Andy's successes have come in the Ardennes and at the Tour alone, Contador has results from Paris-Nice thru the Tour. Of course being stage racers it only makes sense that their primary focus would be the Tour but Contador competes in all the events he enters prior to the Tour. Schleck appears for one week in April and then in July.

 

[La Pandera]

Argentin is right. Allthough it's wrong to blame the attitude of the riders, but something can be done to promote aggressive riding.

Bringing back time bonuses would help but for whatever reasons the Tour organizers have decided against that idea I believe since 2008. With time bonuses there will no more gifting stages to your opponent. I liked seeing Valverde going for the stage win in stage 3 of the 2008 Tour after countering Kim Kirchen's move. That was pure excitement dictated by the terrain of the stage finish and the time bonuses at play.

 

[roundabout]

There were no bonuses in the Tour in 2008

 

[La Pandera]

There were no bonuses in the Tour in 2008

My bad. So when was the last year that the Tour utilized time bonuses? I can't seem to find it in the archives.

 

[El Pistolero]

My bad. So when was the last year that the Tour utilized time bonuses? I can't seem to find it in the archives.

2007.
Which was perhaps one of the most exciting Tours this decade, but not that time bonuses played any role.
blablabla

 

[runninboy]

The fact remains cyclist's are not as savy tatically compared to 20years ago. radios eliminate the human side of racing. Any 500 watt pumping donkey can now pound away when told. In the 'good oul days' he would need to know when and how to make his move keeping the human element alive. Tatical knowledge should be treated as an equal to fitness in racing. End of story. Fact.

Agreed. Amazing how race savy has been lost. Chris Horner being an exception. He used to be so agressive in the US people would call his attacks"suicidal" until they worked. That is the beauty of aggressive racing, it works and has to be defended against. When you do that, you burn matches that you would like to save for later. Then teams become more equal. In the old days teams would conspire to work together to minimize damage but also to inflict damage. That is what was missing in the Armstrong era, a few teams working together AGAINST US Postal, make them burn their matches chasing early in the tour. Make postal do the work even when they didnt have the yellow jersey.
But teams did not seem to want to rock the boat, always playing it safe.
If you are smart you force the other peoples hand. I remember racing on the track, the common knowledge is to never do the work for a rider who could beat you in a sprint. So you never chase, make the fastest finisher cover attacks. When you make the fastest guy do all the work, he no longer is the fastest.
No one ever hammered Lance the way they should have. His rivals should have recruited/paid other teams to do this and we would never have had a 7 time winner and the boring racing you see today.

 

[profff]

Agreed. Amazing how race savy has been lost. Chris Horner being an exception. He used to be so agressive in the US people would call his attacks"suicidal" until they worked. That is the beauty of aggressive racing, it works and has to be defended against. When you do that, you burn matches that you would like to save for later. Then teams become more equal. In the old days teams would conspire to work together to minimize damage but also to inflict damage. That is what was missing in the Armstrong era, a few teams working together AGAINST US Postal, make them burn their matches chasing early in the tour. Make postal do the work even when they didnt have the yellow jersey.
But teams did not seem to want to rock the boat, always playing it safe.
If you are smart you force the other peoples hand. I remember racing on the track, the common knowledge is to never do the work for a rider who could beat you in a sprint. So you never chase, make the fastest finisher cover attacks. When you make the fastest guy do all the work, he no longer is the fastest.
No one ever hammered Lance the way they should have. His rivals should have recruited/paid other teams to do this and we would never have had a 7 time winner and the boring racing you see today.

pantani in the stage of morzine avoriaz forced the postal team to chase all the day and on the final ascent lance was alone, all his domestique gone, and he lost time to kaiser jan. probably,with cap decouverte, the only real difficult moment of lance in his tours.
somebody tried to change to scheme of things , somebody tried to defy him, that was enough.
in cycling, if you just let the things go in the logical way, the stronger always ( or almost) wins. if you are able to change the logical order of the race, maybe the result will be different.

pantani was unlucky that nobody joined his attack, he spent too much energy and did not refuel properly and he was not the real pantani. he was already involved in his tragedy with drugs.
but he was a rider with charisma and he dare to loose in order to try to win.
all the others were spineless, happy to have place in the first ten.
same thing today, nobody dares to attack, they are happy to be in the first tier.
we need guy with guts, we need radios to be forbidden, we need people with a different cycling background ( maybe the colombians..)....
argentin and cipo are right.
i hope that 2011 will prove that things can change.....