Froome/Contador Andalucia

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Feb 22, 2011
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Berzin said:
Both Froome and Contador had days during Andalucia where one dropped the other.

Froome was dropped in stage four, and Contador in stage five.

If they were doping full-on they would not have had such performances.
This is true, but as elsewhere noted, the system is designed to only/mainly ensnare "full-on" dopers. The "legs race" is tilted toward parity--which is not an even playing field.
 
jraama said:
I think LA had millions of little reasons why he focused only on the tour.

He already had plenty of fame as well, so winning the Giro or Vuelta would offer effectively no benefits.
He did focus on the Olympics, though. He should have at least been closer to an ITT win there, if he was able to peak all year.
 
skippythepinhead said:
This is true, but as elsewhere noted, the system is designed to only/mainly ensnare "full-on" dopers.
I'd append that to say it's designed to catch "full-on" dopers the UCI doesn't like. We know at least Zorzoli was making positives go away in the recent past. In the more distant past, the head of the federation was making them go away with favored athletes.

As a general comment, the idea this is some kind of lone doping operation by an athlete who, miraculously, is able to easily source controlled substances and delivery equipment needs to end. I'm not saying teams are running USPS/Rabbobank programs, but it is likely the case that "people who know people" are helping the teams out in a plausibly deniable way.
 
May 3, 2010
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Berzin said:
Both Froome and Contador had days during Andalucia where one dropped the other.

Froome was dropped in stage four, and Contador in stage five.

If they were doping full-on they would not have had such performances.
They may have dropped each other, but on both occasions no one else in the field appeared to be in the same class.

I think history has proved that just because multiple people dope, doesn't mean they are on the exact levels as each other. There is still a lot of personal physiology involved.
 
i think people are forgetting the simple science of blood doping.

the reason armstrong rode for one main race is it takes time to recover from extraction. notice the move to no racing between the dauphine and the tour. note the absences at national championships. note the long gaps in competition pre-main rendez-vous. clentadoppucci is shutting off 40 days before the giro and no racing between that and the tdf. quintana - beloved of these forums - disappears for 60 days!

in 1974 merckx won the giro, the tour de suisse, competed at his national championship and then won the TDF. and that was a time when they were even more bunched in the calendar.

i laugh at these riders running away for weeks upon weeks from competition. they might as well hold up a billboard and say "I am a major dope-fiend!"
 
Mar 9, 2013
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I really don't see the point of assuming riders ride less to dope more? In Contadors case why would you want to put so many race days into your legs when trying to do the double? Now, here comes the argument that Merckx rode everything. I get it. However races were ridden much differently back in the day. riders openly admitted that the Giro was a big group ride with some select battles. Also riders then raced there way into fitness. Now they come out of the gate in the season flying.

JMHO
 
thehook said:
I really don't see the point of assuming riders ride less to dope more? In Contadors case why would you want to put so many race days into your legs when trying to do the double? Now, here comes the argument that Merckx rode everything. I get it. However races were ridden much differently back in the day. riders openly admitted that the Giro was a big group ride with some select battles. Also riders then raced there way into fitness. Now they come out of the gate in the season flying.

JMHO
It's all relative. Everyone is in February mode. Contador & Froome are 2-4kg over Tour weight. It's just looks like they are smoking it but they're not in July shape.

The other factor is both riders didn't complete the Tour, took 4-6 weeks off and started training again, did the Vuelta and the season ended. They are much more fresh than a normal Tour, post Tour race year.

And they're doping! :cool:
 
May 3, 2010
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thehook said:
I really don't see the point of assuming riders ride less to dope more? In Contadors case why would you want to put so many race days into your legs when trying to do the double? Now, here comes the argument that Merckx rode everything. I get it. However races were ridden much differently back in the day. riders openly admitted that the Giro was a big group ride with some select battles. Also riders then raced there way into fitness. Now they come out of the gate in the season flying.

JMHO
I agree. And it is one thing to participate in a lot of races, but it is another to race to win. If Contador were sitting back in training mode I wouldn't think twice about it. In fact, I think almost all riders at some point in their career put race numbers on simply for training days. In this case, you don't ever max yourself out. But Contador and Froome were doing exactly that last week. No one can doubt that they were putting 100% into it.
 
offbyone said:
I agree. And it is one thing to participate in a lot of races, but it is another to race to win. If Contador were sitting back in training mode I wouldn't think twice about it. In fact, I think almost all riders at some point in their career put race numbers on simply for training days. In this case, you don't ever max yourself out. But Contador and Froome were doing exactly that last week. No one can doubt that they were putting 100% into it.
5 stages, 2 in one day, average stage around 150km. 4 days of racing.
 
offbyone said:
I agree. And it is one thing to participate in a lot of races, but it is another to race to win. If Contador were sitting back in training mode I wouldn't think twice about it. In fact, I think almost all riders at some point in their career put race numbers on simply for training days. In this case, you don't ever max yourself out. But Contador and Froome were doing exactly that last week. No one can doubt that they were putting 100% into it.
Lol and Merckx didn't "race to win"? Hinault didn't "race to win"? And I'm not talking about just them but the entire culture. You had the same riders fighting out all season.

And stages were waaaaaaay longer...

That all changed with the arrival of o2 vector doping. Direct connection.
 
If Froome or Contador get pinged now, UCI will get fisted by the media. Busting your star athletes is like cutting off your chainstays.

Too many fanboyz forget people are doing pro sport to win - win $$$$$$$. Sure you have the clean crew who have talent and drive but everyone knows hot sauce beats talent every time if you are talking pro level athletes.

If you don't take it, you won't make it at the top.
 
Jul 10, 2013
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Regardless of the drama that may unfold... if Alberto and Chris keep one-upping each other like this past two years, something will give way.

I can't wait until one, or both, test positive.

:D
 
May 3, 2010
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Big Doopie said:
Lol and Merckx didn't "race to win"? Hinault didn't "race to win"? And I'm not talking about just them but the entire culture. You had the same riders fighting out all season.

And stages were waaaaaaay longer...

That all changed with the arrival of o2 vector doping. Direct connection.
Comparing today's racing to the approach 40 years ago is a ridiculous waste of time.
 
Big Doopie said:
Lol and Merckx didn't "race to win"? Hinault didn't "race to win"? And I'm not talking about just them but the entire culture. You had the same riders fighting out all season.

And stages were waaaaaaay longer...

That all changed with the arrival of o2 vector doping. Direct connection.
+10

The same guys duked it out. EPO is a revolution.
 
offbyone said:
Comparing today's racing to the approach 40 years ago is a ridiculous waste of time.
um... you do realize that i am comparing pre-O2 vector doping and when 02 vector doping became common use. at most that is a watershed of just 2-3 years, no more.

the fact that YOU don't remember a time when riders didn't disappear for huge lengths of time, does not mean it didn't happen.

the fact that O2 vector doping has been around since the very early 90s just happens to coincide DIRECTLY with riders having huge gaps in their racing and skipping national championships - which in most countries would take place a mere week before the TDF - Glow time anyone?

DirtyWorks said:
+10

The same guys duked it out. EPO is a revolution.
and bingo. we have a winner.
 
May 3, 2010
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Big Doopie said:
um... you do realize that i am comparing pre-O2 vector doping and when 02 vector doping became common use. at most that is a watershed of just 2-3 years, no more.

the fact that YOU don't remember a time when riders didn't disappear for huge lengths of time, does not mean it didn't happen.

the fact that O2 vector doping has been around since the very early 90s just happens to coincide DIRECTLY with riders having huge gaps in their racing and skipping national championships - which in most countries would take place a mere week before the TDF - Glow time anyone?



and bingo. we have a winner.
Of course I remember it, you are talking about when Andy Schleck attacked 60K out 2011? :rolleyes:

Don't write cryptic posts if you want clear answers.
 
offbyone said:
Of course I remember it, you are talking about when Andy Schleck attacked 60K out ....
huh? What!?

I have no idea what this has to do with anything that I was teaching you with my posts.

If you are going to respond to my fact-based knowledge with erratic non-sequiturs, I will have to transfer my tutoring services to posters who can actually follow a simple discussion.

:D
 
Aug 4, 2011
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maxmartin said:
AC is done, even if he doped to his guts, he is no match to F.
He dropped Froome only just over a week ago and if he did not let up would have got the GT win. He defeated Froome in a ITT just over a week ago.
DO YOU REMEMBER THAT. Do you need to visit Dr memory reboot for a check up. Do you know your own name:D
The Egg bound git Wizard " Froome" Beat a tired heavy legged King Bertie on one Climb and you come to that conclusion?

I'm sure now you have tasted some of my sweet truth wordz and you will realise that you are talking ,Stop talking
 
May 19, 2011
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Dr. Juice said:
They only one who is done is you.
Is AC your dad or mom or lover? It is creepy to see you mindless d**k head have weird attachment to AC. I bet you have wet dreams about him in bed. LOL. Cry me a river when AC fails to win any GC this year.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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offbyone said:
How can they maintain this level of fitness for a whole season, when the greatest doper of them all, Armstrong, didn't seem to think he could?
not the correct logic.

Armstrong only care about July, and his appointments on the Today Show and Letterman and Leno, because that was what made him his 50million contracts with Nike.

Armstrong and USPS never cared about Hincapie and cycling and the monuments.

When Armstrong said he would ride the Vuelta to help Heras, you did not believe this did you?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Big Doopie said:
the fact that O2 vector doping has been around since the very early 90s just happens to coincide DIRECTLY with riders having huge gaps in their racing and skipping national championships - which in most countries would take place a mere week before the TDF - Glow time anyone?
glow time is only valid from 2001.

when was the hematocrit health rule? 99?
 

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