Froome stays in yellow, the right decision?

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

In all honesty, Mollema shouldn't have carried on when Froome and Porte went down with the motorbike, and that's where the problem lies. If he had stopped, the peloton would have stopped too, and we wouldn't need the commissaires to get involved at all. Instead Mollema tried to take advantage of the situation

What the hell. Yeah blame Mollema lol....

He did what every bike rider would do.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Safe to say Mollema is a punk attacking when the jerseys bike was crushed by a moto. And then complaining after. What a **** chump. And I don't even like froome, but what a jerk for basic lack of sportsmanship.

He didn't attack, he got up and continued as quickly as he could, Or, in other words, he participated in a race as though it were a race.

If he had gently ridden in with the Aru/Yates group, then he would have lost time to them, and so (as it turned out) would Froome and Porte).

 

[yespatterns]

I should have explained with less anger, but what maddened me was his upset at being seemingly slighted for the time gain in a pretty ugly situation. Granted, that tactic may be the only way anyone challanges the alien this year.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

I should have explained with less anger, but what maddened me was his upset at being seemingly slighted for the time gain in a pretty ugly situation. Granted, that tactic may be the only way anyone challanges the alien this year.

He was annoyed because he didn't believe that the commissaires would have stepped in and annulled his loss if he had been the only one involved in a crash with a spectator or race vehicle. And was almost certainly correct about that.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

I should have explained with less anger, but what maddened me was his upset at being seemingly slighted for the time gain in a pretty ugly situation. Granted, that tactic may be the only way anyone challanges the alien this year.

He was annoyed because he didn't believe that the commissaires would have stepped in and annulled his loss if he had been the only one involved in a crash with a spectator or race vehicle. And was almost certainly correct about that.

But they annulled it when Yates was ko'ed by the flamme rouge too.

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

....think back to when lance in yellow got his bars tangled in a spectator and fell..............ulrich

and a small group soft pedaled to allow lance to remount and catch up..

that's how it always was.....mollema thought differently

Mark L

The difference, is Lance didn't crash with 1km to go, his bike still worked and even if he did need a new bike, his team car wasn't blocked by fans and commisair who couldn't get out of the way. No rider or team will ever complain they should get same time if they have a puncture, or mechanical in the last 1km of an MTF if their team car can get to them. As the yellow jersey, Sky would be team car position 1 anyway, so couldn't be any closer, but they were obviously behind Quintana because the gap hadn't reached a minute. Even if it had, there's no way your team car would have passed until the full barriers sections and that's why Froome was running that way, to get into open space so his spare bike could be driven upto him.

Had this happened on the full Ventoux finish, same distance from line, Froome would have lost his time, no doubt, but then he would have had his team car able to get to him as that section of road would be open as the barriers would typically be there.

Aha, so Froome ran forward so that the car that was behind him could reach him. Wow. I always knew the school wouldn't prepare me for everything.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

....think back to when lance in yellow got his bars tangled in a spectator and fell..............ulrich

and a small group soft pedaled to allow lance to remount and catch up..

that's how it always was.....mollema thought differently

Mark L

The difference, is Lance didn't crash with 1km to go, his bike still worked and even if he did need a new bike, his team car wasn't blocked by fans and commisair who couldn't get out of the way. No rider or team will ever complain they should get same time if they have a puncture, or mechanical in the last 1km of an MTF if their team car can get to them. As the yellow jersey, Sky would be team car position 1 anyway, so couldn't be any closer, but they were obviously behind Quintana because the gap hadn't reached a minute. Even if it had, there's no way your team car would have passed until the full barriers sections and that's why Froome was running that way, to get into open space so his spare bike could be driven upto him.

Had this happened on the full Ventoux finish, same distance from line, Froome would have lost his time, no doubt, but then he would have had his team car able to get to him as that section of road would be open as the barriers would typically be there.

Aha, so Froome ran forward so that the car that was behind him could reach him. Wow. I always knew the school wouldn't prepare me for everything.

You don't understand the full picture. The barriers were in place both sides, about 50m further up the road, not back down it. The team car can't just drive through the fans and over the commisair can they to get to Froome? They have to wait until Froome is in the barriered section to get to him which is where he got his spare team bike eventually. The team sky car is behind Quintana remember, not Froome because the gap is still under a minute so comissair won't have allowed Team Sky car in the gap. If Froome doesn't run uphil towards the barriers, the camera bike doesn't move (Moto TV 1 is still on the floor remember), Moto TV 2 has reached Froome by the time he;s running as it's shot from behind Froome, that's why the only evidence of Quintana holiding onto Mavic bike is a fans video not official Moto TV 2 bike. Team Sky car is position 1 in convoy behind Quintana as yellow jersey team. Quintana comes past Froome and then Froome jumps off Mavic bike and gets his spare bike eventually off the team car. Running tothe barriers was extremely clever. Team Sky wouldn't have know the jury would take Mollema's time. Running uphill probably saved Froome 30 seconds instead of just waiting until Quintana passed him a minute after the crash.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

....think back to when lance in yellow got his bars tangled in a spectator and fell..............ulrich

and a small group soft pedaled to allow lance to remount and catch up..

that's how it always was.....mollema thought differently

Mark L

The difference, is Lance didn't crash with 1km to go, his bike still worked and even if he did need a new bike, his team car wasn't blocked by fans and commisair who couldn't get out of the way. No rider or team will ever complain they should get same time if they have a puncture, or mechanical in the last 1km of an MTF if their team car can get to them. As the yellow jersey, Sky would be team car position 1 anyway, so couldn't be any closer, but they were obviously behind Quintana because the gap hadn't reached a minute. Even if it had, there's no way your team car would have passed until the full barriers sections and that's why Froome was running that way, to get into open space so his spare bike could be driven upto him.

Had this happened on the full Ventoux finish, same distance from line, Froome would have lost his time, no doubt, but then he would have had his team car able to get to him as that section of road would be open as the barriers would typically be there.

Aha, so Froome ran forward so that the car that was behind him could reach him. Wow. I always knew the school wouldn't prepare me for everything.

You don't understand the full picture. The barriers were in place both sides, about 50m further up the road, not back down it. The team car can't just drive through the fans and over the commisair can they to get to Froome? They have to wait until Froome is in the barriered section to get to him which is where he got his spare team bike eventually. The team sky car is behind Quintana remember, not Froome because the gap is still under a minute so comissair won't have allowed Team Sky car in the gap. If Froome doesn't run uphil towards the barriers, the camera bike doesn't move (Moto TV 1 is still on the floor remember), Moto TV 2 has reached Froome by the time he;s running as it's shot from behind Froome, that's why the only evidence of Quintana holiding onto Mavic bike is a fans video not official TV bike. Team Sky car is position 1 in convoy behind Quintana. Quintana comes past Froome and then Froome gets his spare bike eventually.

I understand that it is illegal to run forward without a bike, at least according to the Jury president of the TdF. So he dodged a bullet when they neutralized the race prior to his actions. He should have taken his bike with him.......

 

[samhocking]

I think the fact everyone's time was taken off Mollema's kind of supersedes anything Froome did or didn't do and anyway the rules say you need to cover the course under your own steam and must cross the finish with your bike (rule 1.2.109). Rule 12.12.14 says any “attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle” brings elimination but the spirit here is more about what the rule calls “wilful deviation” ie taking a short cut or getting into a train or a car rather than jogging along. Clearly jogging is slower than cycling, because Porte rode past Froome running and as far as we know, Froome did not wilfully deviate off the course.

 

[Carols]

Re:

I think the fact everyone's time was taken off Mollema's kind of supersedes anything Froome did or didn't do and anyway the rules say you need to cover the course under your own steam and must cross the finish with your bike (rule 1.2.109). Rule 12.12.14 says any “attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle” brings elimination but the spirit here is more about what the rule calls “wilful deviation” ie taking a short cut or getting into a train or a car rather than jogging along. Clearly jogging is slower than cycling, because Porte rode past Froome running and as far as we know, Froome did not wilfully deviate off the course.

Well the Jury president of the TdF disagrees with your interpretation of the rules when he said:
The jury was mild, certainly in Froome's case. "Normally a rider is not allowed to continue without his bike, but in this case we took the circumstances into account" says Valcic".

 

[samhocking]

No, they interpreted the rules the same as me actually. The Jury took the 1km to go circumstances into account, i.e. had the barriers been in place as would normally be the case i nthe final 1km or so instead of half of them still on a truck stuck at the summit, riders wouldn't have crashed into official race vehicles and team cars would not be blocked from getting to their riders by a TV motorbike on its side with thousands of fans blocking the way.
Had it been a crash, mecahnical or puncture at that point with barriers there, Froome would have lost his 30s to Quintana and still been in yellow after the TT anyway.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

I think the fact everyone's time was taken off Mollema's kind of supersedes anything Froome did or didn't do and anyway the rules say you need to cover the course under your own steam and must cross the finish with your bike (rule 1.2.109). Rule 12.12.14 says any “attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle” brings elimination but the spirit here is more about what the rule calls “wilful deviation” ie taking a short cut or getting into a train or a car rather than jogging along. Clearly jogging is slower than cycling, because Porte rode past Froome running and as far as we know, Froome did not wilfully deviate off the course.

If it is permissible to cross the line with, but not on, your bike, then it is permissible to travel the last metre or so not by bicycle, therefore it cannot be compulsory to "cover the entire course by bicycle”. If the rules are self-contradictory, they can be challenged: if the exceedingly badly framed letter of the law has been broken without breaking the spirit or gaining advantage, then legislators leave themselves open to legal challenge if they try to enforce such rules.

 

[One Eyed Aussie]

It's complete BS about needing the bike with you at all times to complete the course - whatever the strict interpretation of the rules maybe.
How many crashed riders have remounted their bicycles a metre or two (or more) down the road after they have a crash? They get looked at by soigneur, DS, doctor etc. and the mechanic mucks around with the bike. How many of them have been disqualified for covering a part of the course without their bike. :lol:
We might need the commisaires on top of every crash with the chalk ready to show the riders where they can start again. :lol:

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

....think back to when lance in yellow got his bars tangled in a spectator and fell..............ulrich

and a small group soft pedaled to allow lance to remount and catch up..

that's how it always was.....mollema thought differently

Mark L

The difference, is Lance didn't crash with 1km to go, his bike still worked and even if he did need a new bike, his team car wasn't blocked by fans and commisair who couldn't get out of the way. No rider or team will ever complain they should get same time if they have a puncture, or mechanical in the last 1km of an MTF if their team car can get to them. As the yellow jersey, Sky would be team car position 1 anyway, so couldn't be any closer, but they were obviously behind Quintana because the gap hadn't reached a minute. Even if it had, there's no way your team car would have passed until the full barriers sections and that's why Froome was running that way, to get into open space so his spare bike could be driven upto him.

Had this happened on the full Ventoux finish, same distance from line, Froome would have lost his time, no doubt, but then he would have had his team car able to get to him as that section of road would be open as the barriers would typically be there.

Aha, so Froome ran forward so that the car that was behind him could reach him. Wow. I always knew the school wouldn't prepare me for everything.

You don't understand the full picture. The barriers were in place both sides, about 50m further up the road, not back down it. The team car can't just drive through the fans and over the commisair can they to get to Froome? They have to wait until Froome is in the barriered section to get to him which is where he got his spare team bike eventually. The team sky car is behind Quintana remember, not Froome because the gap is still under a minute so comissair won't have allowed Team Sky car in the gap. If Froome doesn't run uphil towards the barriers, the camera bike doesn't move (Moto TV 1 is still on the floor remember), Moto TV 2 has reached Froome by the time he;s running as it's shot from behind Froome, that's why the only evidence of Quintana holiding onto Mavic bike is a fans video not official Moto TV 2 bike. Team Sky car is position 1 in convoy behind Quintana as yellow jersey team. Quintana comes past Froome and then Froome jumps off Mavic bike and gets his spare bike eventually off the team car. Running tothe barriers was extremely clever. Team Sky wouldn't have know the jury would take Mollema's time. Running uphill probably saved Froome 30 seconds instead of just waiting until Quintana passed him a minute after the crash.

Aha, so if he stayed where he was, all motos and cars would have waited. How long? An hour? A day?

And theoretically if he ran back, all the cars would also drive back?

Btw. Carols said everything: so far the riders stayed where they were and waited or they continued: but with their bike.

 

[bikinggirl]

Re: Re:

In all honesty, Mollema shouldn't have carried on when Froome and Porte went down with the motorbike, and that's where the problem lies. If he had stopped, the peloton would have stopped too, and we wouldn't need the commissaires to get involved at all. Instead Mollema tried to take advantage of the situation

You are kidding me?

 

[Carols]

Re:

No, they interpreted the rules the same as me actually. The Jury took the 1km to go circumstances into account, i.e. had the barriers been in place as would normally be the case i nthe final 1km or so instead of half of them still on a truck stuck at the summit, riders wouldn't have crashed into official race vehicles and team cars would not be blocked from getting to their riders by a TV motorbike on its side with thousands of fans blocking the way.
Had it been a crash, mecahnical or puncture at that point with barriers there, Froome would have lost his 30s to Quintana and still been in yellow after the TT anyway.

No, they decided on Leniency due to the circumstances, not that the rule didn't apply. There is a Big Difference.

 

[Nick C.]

There should be an "I don't know ask Eugene Christophe" option.

 

[thehog]

Re:

No, they interpreted the rules the same as me actually. The Jury took the 1km to go circumstances into account, i.e. had the barriers been in place as would normally be the case i nthe final 1km or so instead of half of them still on a truck stuck at the summit, riders wouldn't have crashed into official race vehicles and team cars would not be blocked from getting to their riders by a TV motorbike on its side with thousands of fans blocking the way.
Had it been a crash, mecahnical or puncture at that point with barriers there, Froome would have lost his 30s to Quintana and still been in yellow after the TT anyway.

What 1km to go circumstances? There is no such rule.

 

[Microchip]

Re: Re:

This is my conclusion now. So if a rider is going to end up in a crash, it would be better he stay nearby the preferred yellow jersey holder so he won't lose any time. Guaranteed.

He was annoyed because he didn't believe that the commissaires would have stepped in and annulled his loss if he had been the only one involved in a crash with a spectator or race vehicle. And was almost certainly correct about that.

 

[Sartorius]

Re: Re:

This is my conclusion now. So if a rider is going to end up in a crash, it would be better he stay nearby the preferred yellow jersey holder so he won't lose any time. Guaranteed.

He was annoyed because he didn't believe that the commissaires would have stepped in and annulled his loss if he had been the only one involved in a crash with a spectator or race vehicle. And was almost certainly correct about that.

...end up in a crash in last 1-2 km caused (fully or partially) by race organizers, it would be better...

 

[Microchip]

Re: Re:

Even better.

...end up in a crash in last 1-2 km caused (fully or partially) by race organizers, it would be better...

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

This is my conclusion now. So if a rider is going to end up in a crash, it would be better he stay nearby the preferred yellow jersey holder so he won't lose any time. Guaranteed.

He was annoyed because he didn't believe that the commissaires would have stepped in and annulled his loss if he had been the only one involved in a crash with a spectator or race vehicle. And was almost certainly correct about that.

But what if the MJ runs away?????? :lol:

 

[Microchip]

Re: Re:

Then you run with the MJ...the object is to stick close by.

But what if the MJ runs away?????? :lol:

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Then you run with the MJ...the object is to stick close by.

But what if the MJ runs away?????? :lol:

Just take your bike with you .

The episode would make a great cartoon....hint!

 

[CTQ]

Tom Dumoulin should be expelled. Earlier in the tour, he got into a camper for an "emergency ", except of course if he was still on his bike in the camper.