Re: Re:
I have never been harsh to him, because i think it is all a big joke with him anyways.pastronef said:TourOfSardinia said:royal we pastronef
we as the Italian public.
Re: Re:
Too late now, Vegni won't do it. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vegni-i-cant-stop-chris-froome-racing-the-giro-ditalia/
I went back and reread that article. Vegni, if he's truly committed to a clean(er) race vs. eyeballs/clicks, last fall would have pressured the UCI to come up with some sort of deadline to resolve the case.
As for legal rights, I am certain that there is some sort of civil case to be made in an Italian court that he can prevent Froome from starting while the AAF is unresolved. Off the top of my head I could see some sort of future claim for damages against Sky if Froome wins or podiums, then is stripped of his result. But I think the time for initiating that action has sailed. At this point a judge would probably say, You've known about this for 5 months, so why now?
The whole thing is a clusterf**k. I have largely given Froome the benefit of the doubt in the past, but the way he and Sky have conducted themselves following the AAF has "flipped" me.
fmk_RoI said:
Too late now, Vegni won't do it. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vegni-i-cant-stop-chris-froome-racing-the-giro-ditalia/
I went back and reread that article. Vegni, if he's truly committed to a clean(er) race vs. eyeballs/clicks, last fall would have pressured the UCI to come up with some sort of deadline to resolve the case.
As for legal rights, I am certain that there is some sort of civil case to be made in an Italian court that he can prevent Froome from starting while the AAF is unresolved. Off the top of my head I could see some sort of future claim for damages against Sky if Froome wins or podiums, then is stripped of his result. But I think the time for initiating that action has sailed. At this point a judge would probably say, You've known about this for 5 months, so why now?
The whole thing is a clusterf**k. I have largely given Froome the benefit of the doubt in the past, but the way he and Sky have conducted themselves following the AAF has "flipped" me.
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Alpe73 said:
That case together with the Froome case show that there is hope for us all to run 10 km under 28 minutes or win a couple of TdF's if we just take incredulous amount of salbutamol in one day :geek:
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Re: Re:
Damages or losing the Vuelta? Really, why are you and others so supportive of this most obvious of dopers. I get the English angle (pun intended) but seriously, just why, other than pure misguided patriotism can you defend this fraud. If you actually believe in him and Sky, I feel sorry for you, if you are trolling on his behalf, I feel even more sorry for you.Parker said:
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Re: Re:
Capsich'?
To spoil one GC is carelessness
To spoil both ...
Italian public non wanna the same dude on derr podium.Alpe73 said:
Capsich'?
To spoil one GC is carelessness
To spoil both ...
- Sep 16, 2010
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Re: Re:
This is what I love about so many people round here. For them, rules are only the things you can beat athletes over the head with, rest of the time you can just make em up as you go along, and as soon as anyone says, well, actually, no, rules is rules, we all have to follow them, painful as that can at times be, you just dismiss that person as a fanboy. Cause only fanboys support the fair and honest application of the rules...ferryman said:
Given that I am not English, clearly you don't get the English angle. But hey, you know what Wilde said about patriotism: it's the last refuge of the scoundrel. And you're the one taking refuge in it sunshine...ferryman said:
Re: Re:
Well ... I am partial to Basil Fawlty ... but nowt else in my passport to show me as British, English, UK-ish, Great Britain-ish. But ... aye ... I dooooo like me chances goin mano a mano on thee old Queen's English, lad.
So ... in all honesty ... that's not a factor for me and some others on here who are tarred with a fanboi feather. Very, very simple. Froome may be a big time doper. But I, like you, have NO WAY OF KNOWING that. So, my approach ... is to let the process run its course, respect the UCI's/WADA's process, respect the rider's rights. (Don't start on the "Italian Public" or "French Public" ... races in disrepute thang. We've all had a smorgasbord of BS on this and can't stomach another bite.) If the relevant authorities sanction him ... there will me no blip on my fanboi radar. Nada. If he walks ... continues to race, continues to win ... fine, as well. I'd love to see TD take him out ... but the half life of race favorite loss disappointment is ... like ... about three minutes for me. So there you have it ... my profile ... my reason for being a Froome defender ... a Froome fanboi ... a Sky lapdog. Now ... tell me. What's wrong with that ...?
ferryman said:
Well ... I am partial to Basil Fawlty ... but nowt else in my passport to show me as British, English, UK-ish, Great Britain-ish. But ... aye ... I dooooo like me chances goin mano a mano on thee old Queen's English, lad.
So ... in all honesty ... that's not a factor for me and some others on here who are tarred with a fanboi feather. Very, very simple. Froome may be a big time doper. But I, like you, have NO WAY OF KNOWING that. So, my approach ... is to let the process run its course, respect the UCI's/WADA's process, respect the rider's rights. (Don't start on the "Italian Public" or "French Public" ... races in disrepute thang. We've all had a smorgasbord of BS on this and can't stomach another bite.) If the relevant authorities sanction him ... there will me no blip on my fanboi radar. Nada. If he walks ... continues to race, continues to win ... fine, as well. I'd love to see TD take him out ... but the half life of race favorite loss disappointment is ... like ... about three minutes for me. So there you have it ... my profile ... my reason for being a Froome defender ... a Froome fanboi ... a Sky lapdog. Now ... tell me. What's wrong with that ...?
Re: Re:
clinic members have been supportive of many dopers, preferring one doper to another. cycling is about that I seem to understand.
no need to believe, I am Italian, I like hiow Froome drives people mad and hope he keeps doing it.
ferryman said:
clinic members have been supportive of many dopers, preferring one doper to another. cycling is about that I seem to understand.
no need to believe, I am Italian, I like hiow Froome drives people mad and hope he keeps doing it.
Re: Re:
However, I also don't think that a single spike in salbutamol levels is obvious evidence of a huge doping programme. If you think that attitude makes me so sort of deluded person to be pitied that's just you one-eyed prejudice talking. You seem very angry that other people don't share your views. It suggests a lack of confidence in them.
PS Like Fmk and pastronef, I'm not English (and neither is Froome frankly).
All I'm saying is that the Giro or any other race will not sue him for damages. mI said nothing about the Vuelta. I expect him to lose that and get a ban.ferryman said:
However, I also don't think that a single spike in salbutamol levels is obvious evidence of a huge doping programme. If you think that attitude makes me so sort of deluded person to be pitied that's just you one-eyed prejudice talking. You seem very angry that other people don't share your views. It suggests a lack of confidence in them.
PS Like Fmk and pastronef, I'm not English (and neither is Froome frankly).
- Aug 12, 2009
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Re: Re:
you have no way of knowing????
what do you think actually happened in late summer 2011?
It's reminiscent of the judas priest fans who didn't know rob was gay.......
Alpe73 said:
you have no way of knowing????
what do you think actually happened in late summer 2011?
It's reminiscent of the judas priest fans who didn't know rob was gay.......
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I have watched this debate over the months with interest. It's now fashionable to declare where one stands nationally. I am English and therefore British. Froome is British but not English. I never liked him very much and he may "go down" as they say, but let's be fair.
The regulations in the WADA code include the oft-quoted one about Salbutamol and other Beta-2 agonists and include the following:-
"Except:
Inhaled salbutamol: maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours;
in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose;
Inhaled formoterol: maximum delivered dose of 54 micrograms over 24 hours;
Inhaled salmeterol: maximum 200 micrograms over 24 hours.
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above."
Now I find the word "unless" significant. "Unless" is a condition but it is implied that it has to be satisfied after the measurement has been taken. The measurement itself therefore cannot constitute an AAF unless the athlete fails to satisfy the condition. On the normal meaning of the words there ought not even be deemed to be an AAF until the athlete has given up on trying to prove what he must prove to avoid it. He must have have that opportunity if he wishes to take that line.
To me that justifies the fact that he is permitted to ride until the case is resolved and thereafter it depends on how it turns out.
At the end of the day it's a job of work. Every professional athlete depends on sport for his/her income and it's not for us to say that should be suspended in this case.
I thought I would come out of commenting semi-retirement to offer this argued position.
The regulations in the WADA code include the oft-quoted one about Salbutamol and other Beta-2 agonists and include the following:-
"Except:
Inhaled salbutamol: maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours;
in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose;
Inhaled formoterol: maximum delivered dose of 54 micrograms over 24 hours;
Inhaled salmeterol: maximum 200 micrograms over 24 hours.
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above."
Now I find the word "unless" significant. "Unless" is a condition but it is implied that it has to be satisfied after the measurement has been taken. The measurement itself therefore cannot constitute an AAF unless the athlete fails to satisfy the condition. On the normal meaning of the words there ought not even be deemed to be an AAF until the athlete has given up on trying to prove what he must prove to avoid it. He must have have that opportunity if he wishes to take that line.
To me that justifies the fact that he is permitted to ride until the case is resolved and thereafter it depends on how it turns out.
At the end of the day it's a job of work. Every professional athlete depends on sport for his/her income and it's not for us to say that should be suspended in this case.
I thought I would come out of commenting semi-retirement to offer this argued position.
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Sky, which in the meantime has already spent more than 7 million euros in lawyers and legal experts
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/2018/04/...viberti-se-vince-il-giro-nessuno-glielo-tocca
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/2018/04/...viberti-se-vince-il-giro-nessuno-glielo-tocca
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Vegni himself:70kmph said:Sky, which in the meantime has already spent more than 7 million euros in lawyers and legal experts
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/2018/04/...viberti-se-vince-il-giro-nessuno-glielo-tocca
Which is something like
Someone with a better grasp of Italian can tidy that up...but the gist seems pretty clear...
- Feb 16, 2010
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70kmph said:Sky, which in the meantime has already spent more than 7 million euros in lawyers and legal experts
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/2018/04/...viberti-se-vince-il-giro-nessuno-glielo-tocca
Giorgio Viberti of La Stampa contradicts the established notion that CF is paying
Morgan (not Sky) by writing:
which translates to:
No mention of Sky paying back in December:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froome-hires-former-bruyneel-and-contador-lawyer-for-salbutamol-case/
How would Team Sky come up with 7 million euros? That's a good chunk of their yearly budget. Not to mention more than a years worth of earnings for Froome, which would already put him well beyond the "opportunity cost" of defending this.
No. 7 million is what Armstrong is paying for his multi-year, federal trial with a billion witnesses. Froomes case hasn't even seen a real court yet, he is well under even half a million.
No. 7 million is what Armstrong is paying for his multi-year, federal trial with a billion witnesses. Froomes case hasn't even seen a real court yet, he is well under even half a million.
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70kmph said:Sky, which in the meantime has already spent more than 7 million euros in lawyers and legal experts
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/2018/04/...viberti-se-vince-il-giro-nessuno-glielo-tocca
Wowsers....is that saying they've spent that much just on the Froome case....or over the years? :surprised:
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Re:
Was just thinking the same...7 million euros in little more than 5 months is hard to believe
hazaran said:
Was just thinking the same...7 million euros in little more than 5 months is hard to believe
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