Froome Talk Only

Page 1357 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
If you can't or don't want to take the time to read it, she shouldn't have to simplify it for you. Some people use lots of words explaining things and her posts are almost always on point, knowledgeable, objective, and unbiased. If you don't want to read that because it is long, your own loss.

On Froome, something I thought of earlier when I was with one of my patients is hopefully people don't accuse him of "doping" with whatever medications he was prescribed by the doctors.
 
Reactions: TourOfSardinia
Sep 27, 2017
1,041
4
2,485
If you can't or don't want to take the time to read it, she shouldn't have to simplify it for you. Some people use lots of words explaining things and her posts are almost always on point, knowledgeable, objective, and unbiased. If you don't want to read that because it is long, your own loss.

On Froome, something I thought of earlier when I was with one of my patients is hopefully people don't accuse him of "doping" with whatever medications he was prescribed by the doctors.
To the last bit...that’s exactly what’s happening isn’t it? Any asthma meds would have to be doctor prescribed and he (and others) are constantly accused of ‘doping’ by using them.
 
To the last bit...that’s exactly what’s happening isn’t it? Any asthma meds would have to be doctor prescribed and he (and others) are constantly accused of ‘doping’ by using them.
That's a good point, I didn't think of that with the asthma. I was thinking pain pills, something to help him recover, etc.
 
To the last bit...that’s exactly what’s happening isn’t it? Any asthma meds would have to be doctor prescribed and he (and others) are constantly accused of ‘doping’ by using them.
Where is that sky doc (testo-Freeman) and is he speaking yet? Maybe we should ask that other doc they had...Lienders was it??? there's so much smoke around team sky that not only can't some see the fire...they have been convinced that the smoke isn't even smoke.....
 
The usual Libery Segureos replty. Lots and lot of words.

Break it down into a post of key points of 200 words or less and I'll respond. As one of the bosses in my company says, if you can't make your case in a few sentences, you don't have a point.
I'm gussing you're a fast and furious franchise man as opposed to the three colours trilogy ;);)
 
Reactions: fmk_RoI
The usual Libery Segureos replty. Lots and lot of words.

Break it down into a post of key points of 200 words or less and I'll respond. As one of the bosses in my company says, if you can't make your case in a few sentences, you don't have a point.
Your comment proves you do not want a real DISCUSSION. This is a DISCUSSION board. In terms of broadcasting you want the simple KISS television version instead of the longer print media version. Libertine does a wonder job of print media.
 
Reactions: sworks
The usual Libery Segureos replty. Lots and lot of words.

Break it down into a post of key points of 200 words or less and I'll respond. As one of the bosses in my company says, if you can't make your case in a few sentences, you don't have a point.
Politicians love people like your boss:

Make America Great Again.
Mexicans are criminals.
Muslims are terrorists.
Socialism will turn us into Venezuela
Kim and I love each other
Crooked. Hillary
Little Marco
Lyin' Ted

Let the British take back control of their economy.

Simple answers to complex questions always win a lot of votes.

But how's this?

Emma Pooley: LIE
Leinders: LIE
We will be transparent: LIE
No TUEs: LIE
Sandshoes: LIE
Marginal gains: LIE

To be fair, these are all on Sky; not all of them are on Froome.
 
Reactions: Zam_Olyas
But how's this?

Emma Pooley: LIE
Leinders: LIE
We will be transparent: LIE
No TUEs: LIE
Sandshoes: LIE
Marginal gains: LIE

To be fair, these are all on Sky; not all of them are on Froome.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the alleged lies are his responsibility, whether they are lies or not.

This was reported by the Guardian, "Something similar struck his current manager Dave Brailsford at the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne in 2006. Froome was a one-man Kenyan team, doing it all for himself in the same way that he had made himself a Kenyan national champion's jersey. "He looked after himself, came to the team managers' meeting, turned up in his sandshoes and he performed really well," recalled Brailsford. "

Even if Brailsford said it, which I am sure sounds like him, it doesn't say anywhere that Froome actually rode in the "sandshoes." It just sounds like that. He turned up in them, allegedly. I often turn up for events in a pair of sandals. I don't ride in them.

Which ones in your list are "on Froome?"
 
Something similar struck his current manager Dave Brailsford at the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne in 2006. Froome was a one-man Kenyan team, doing it all for himself in the same way that he had made himself a Kenyan national champion's jersey. "He looked after himself, came to the team managers' meeting, turned up in his sandshoes and he performed really well," recalled Brailsford.
Not sure who's at fault here, Fotheringham (not famed for his fact checking) or Brailsford (who takes the Liberty Valance view of truth) but that story is not about the Melbourne commie games, it's about the Salzburg worlds. In the latter, Froome was a one man team and may well have been wearing sandshoes at the managers' meeting, but at the former Kenya had several riders and officials.
 
Not sure who's at fault here, Fotheringham (not famed for his fact checking) or Brailsford (who takes the Liberty Valance view of truth) but that story is not about the Melbourne commie games, it's about the Salzburg worlds. In the latter, Froome was a one man team and may well have been wearing sandshoes at the managers' meeting, but at the former Kenya had several riders and officials.
Thank you! In any event, hardly an incriminating matter then.
 
Reactions: fmk_RoI
Back to these sandshoes. I'm not really clear on what the alleged issue here is, whether it's a Rasmussen-like story of blood doping products being trafficked in hollowed-out heels or whether it's just a fashion faux pas and the word 'sandshoes' is supposed to be delivered in a Lady Bracknell-like voice, or with all the disdain of Jeeves giving Bertie Wooster's Old Etonian spats a withering look.

Whatever. Here's something relevant from the pen of David Walsh, ghosting The Climb for Froome. The place is Melbourne, the time is 2006, the occasion the Commie Games. Froome has gone off early in the time trial and is back at the finish sitting in the hot seat waiting for someone to better his performance:

All of my family saw me on TV. The broadcast kept on switching back to the hot seat and this young, skinny guy. Cyclingnews.com called me 'Chris Froome, time trial revelation.' I was sitting there in the hot seat when two managers from the English team first noticed me. Their names were Dave Brailsford and Shane Sutton.

'See what that kid has done?'
'Who?'
'That Kenyan kid, wearing the sandals.'
'Doesn't look like a Kenyan.'
'Well, he is.'

I wound up 17th overall in a field of seventy-two riders but, thanks to spending over an hour in the leader's chair, the result seemed to bestow more attention on me than a 17th-placed finisher had ever received before.
So, at the Commie Games in 2006, Brailsford and Sutton saw him sitting in the hot seat at the time trial, wearing sandals. Photographic evidence would be nice, if someone wants to go on to Getty or see if they can find the race on Youtube (I've drawn a blank on both). But let's suspend our disbelief a moment and imagine he was, as reported, wearing sandals.

Now I'm not much of a shoes guy, I live in fear of the Shoe Event Horizon (look at that, from Oscar Wilde to PG Wodehouse to Douglas Adams, all in the Clinic – who woulda thunk it?). But I'd guess that sandals (Jesus boots, Birksenstocks, whatever you want to call 'em) and sandshoes (Plimsoles) can be the same thing, in a generic footwear kind of way, if you squint really, really hard and turn off the lights. We're surely not going to get into an argument over one of them being open-toed shoes for tossers and the other canvas-topped runners your dad might think he looks cool in, are we?

Point is, there's no suggestion in that anecdote that he rode the time trial in sandals/sandshoes. The other anecdote, Fotheringham in the Guardian, quoting Brailsford apparently conflating the Commie Games in Spring 2006 and the Worlds in Autumn 2006, there's room for interpretation as to whether it's being implied he raced in sandshoes or turned up to the managers' meeting in them (totes a fashion faux pas, that) but there's also room for interpretation as to who's making the error, Brailsford (whose memory often leaves you wondering whether he's suffering from early-onset Alzheimers or is just an inveterate bullshitter) or Fotheringham (whose family motto ought be 'nisi stulti reprehendo veritates').

So, sartorial sins aside, the sandshoes story doesn't seem to have any real value, one way or the other. It's a non-story.

But, add to it this with regard to The Climb's claim that “Cyclingnews.com called me 'Chris Froome, time trial revelation.'” I can't find any evidence of that having actually happened. Here's the CN Commie Games main page and here's the race report (where he's “Christopher Froome”, not Chris) and nowhere do they call him a time trial revelation (the report does acknowledge that he “recorded an impressive time which made a mockery of his ranking for the event”). I even did a Google search on Froome “time trial revelation” and, from that, it'd seem that the source for the quote in The Climb can only be ... The Climb itself.

(And The Climb's claim that Froome was 17th out of 72 riders? The CN report shows 67 riders finishing, with a DNF and a DNS bringing that up to a field of 68 or 69 riders, depending on how you want to count.)

So is that what's really at stake here, that you get one thing about the guy that's a little bit dodge but really rather insignificant and you try and stand it up only behind it is something else that's a little bit dodge but really rather insignificant and you dig further only to find that behind that is something else that's a little bit dodge but really rather insignificant and so on and so forth in an Escher-like progression of error, bullshit and outright lies? Because despite all these things seeming a little bit dodge but really rather insignificant (we're not really arguing the difference between sandals and sandshoes) their sum is like the apocryphal rounding differences in banks' computers: very significant, when compounded.

And, as that quote from The Climb shows, Froome can't wash his hands of all this nonsense and say it's always someone else saying these things. He contributes to the problem, as we all know.
 
Reactions: wirral
But, add to it this with regard to The Climb's claim that “Cyclingnews.com called me 'Chris Froome, time trial revelation.'” I can't find any evidence of that having actually happened. Here's the CN Commie Games main page and here's the race report (where he's “Christopher Froome”, not Chris) and nowhere do they call him a time trial revelation (the report does acknowledge that he “recorded an impressive time which made a mockery of his ranking for the event”). I even did a Google search on Froome “time trial revelation” and, from that, it'd seem that the source for the quote in The Climb can only be ... The Climb itself.

(And The Climb's claim that Froome was 17th out of 72 riders? The CN report shows 67 riders finishing, with a DNF and a DNS bringing that up to a field of 68 or 69 riders, depending on how you want to count.)

Here it is.

The lead group was split in two after an attack by Davis and South African shadow Robbie Hunter on the twelfth lap. Reaching the front group were Mathew Hayman and Will Walker (Australia), Ryan Cox and David George (South Africa), Steve Cummings (England), Mark Cavendish (Isle of Man), Greg Henderson (New Zealand), Gordon Fraser (Canada) and time trial revelation Chris Froome (Kenya).

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/mar06/commgames06/?id=results/men_rr

And here's the start list for the TT. 72 riders. I guess that's where that came from. I doubt Froome looked that up himself.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/mar06/commgames06/?id=stages/men_road_tt
 
Last edited:
Reactions: fmk_RoI
Oh rats.

Not sure how I missed that. As well as using Google to look for it I even checked the photo galleries in case it had been an image title. Soz.

(That start-list? Sixty-nine riders.)
 
Last edited:
Okay, another version of the sandshoes story, this time Richard Moore, in the Mail (21 July, 2013):
Brailsford recalls his first encounter with Froome, during the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Melbourne. 'I was with Shane Sutton [the British head coach] on the beach road in Melbourne during the time trial. Chris rode past and Shane said "Bloody hell, there's a bloke in a pair of sand shoes, and he's going fast."'
As with the Fotheringham quote earlier, I don't know who to blame there, Brailsford or Moore.
 
Last edited:
And yet another one, an alternative version from the pen of David Walsh, this time in his Sky spaff-fest, Inside Team Sky:
'Chris has always been a good time triallist,' he said afterwards, 'that's where I first saw him, in Melbourne in the Commonwealth Games in 2006, first time I set eyes on him. Nathan O'Neil won that time trial, we had Steve Cummings and the usual suspects. I was there with Doug Dailey and Shane [Sutton]. Shane's saying [in Brailsford's best Australian twang], “You're not going to believe this, some bloke's turned up in sand shoes, jumped on his bike and look what he's done. In a pair of fucking sand shoes!”

'We all looked and thought bloody hell that guy is impressive. He wasn't up there, but it was impressive, you know, he caught the eye. And he was completely unknown.'
That one, it's harder to blame that on Walsh, that one has to be on tape somewhere, Brailsford even doing the accent. No benefit of the doubt, blame the journalist on that. (Odd that Walsh wrote such a different version of it in The Climb. Maybe even he decided that Inside Team Sky was best forgotten.)
 
Quote: Merkx Index

But how's this?

Emma Pooley: LIE
Unlikely to be a lie. More likely someone not remembering an inncuosus event from five years ago
Leinders: LIE
What is the lie here?
We will be transparent: LIE
Define transparent. Not giving all information to people with bad intentions (e.g Vayer) doesn't invalidate this. Transparency has its limits.
No TUEs: LIE
Source for this promise?
Sandshoes: LIE
It's a turn of phrase. Not literal. Free info for you: when some says they are pedalling squares, the shape of the pedal is not actually a square.
Marginal gains: LIE
What's the lie here. I was learning about this stuff as an engineering student in the early 90s

To be fair, these are all on Sky; not all of them are on Froome.
 
I elaborated why these were lies in the post you didn't want to read because it was too long.

This is precisely what I expected. Post something that explains stuff? "Too long, make it shorter". Post Cliff's Notes short version? "Too vague, needs more information, I can dismiss as not relevant due to lacking detail".

Besides, the "Inside Team Sky" quote was the one I was thinking of when I wrote the Sand shoes bit. Interesting to note how the story has changed over the years. I don't mind if Cope mis-remembered visiting Pooley (though the later testimonies from her and even more so Cooke make it clear that despite his job title being women's team coach, Cope did very little coaching of the women for British cycling in 2011), but while your mileage may vary on whether or not this was a lie per se, the fact Brailsford told Lawton he'd look into it, then managed to repeat something so easily disproven (it takes under 30 seconds using a results aggregator like procyclingstats or CQ ranking) to him before fact checking it, really shows up their claims of "attention to detail" to be a lie too (and before you get pedantic, there are a LOT of things that point toward the 'attention to detail' being, really, a PR buzz-phrase rather than an actual tenet of the team ethos, including some that harm other claims of theirs). Your last sentence is fair, however - much of the lying is not by Froome himself but around him.

Oh, sorry, whoops, I might have gone past 200 words again. Silly me.
 
Besides, the "Inside Team Sky" quote was the one I was thinking of when I wrote the Sand shoes bit. Interesting to note how the story has changed over the years.
Thing is, it's not even over years it's changed. The first version, Fotheringham's, appeared in July 2013. Just a few days later, the Moore version came along. Then, later in 2013, Walsh gave us the Inside Team Sky version, followed by his other version in The Climb the following June.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS