Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Ricksterh1]

I wonder if Froome is using his exemption for asthma during this tour? I think this is an unfair advantage that someone can take a drug to help them perform. Should be no medical exemptions for anything. Fair playing field. If an asthma medicine can help you perform better, even if it is to a "normal" standard, it is enhancing performance. This could make a big difference in performance but because of the exemption, allows him to fly under the radar. Just my view. Don't beleive one should be able to use any banned/performance enhancing substance regardless of your situation. Go with what you develop in terms of unaided human performance. No medicine used what so ever!

 

[46&twoWheels]

Re: Re:

Here's why I don't buy that. Froome was a UCI-Continental racer with only a modicum of results until the age of about 25. Within two years he was on the cusp of winning the Tour, and now is destroying everyone. All of this happened once he came to Sky.

Riders with natural talent don't do this. They are guys like Merckx, LeMond or Fignon, where from early on you knew they'd be great, and some days they'd crush the competition. I can't think of a single natural (ie. clean) rider in history who has done what Froome has. Can anyone else? I'd like to know.

wiggins
putting drugs aside and putting also natural abilities aside
We're ruling out the huge role training is playing
Who knows what kind of methods Sky might have found that works in order to reach these levels
I know it's naive but we cannot rule it out

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

I wonder if Froome is using his exemption for asthma during this tour? I think this is an unfair advantage that someone can take a drug to help them perform. Should be no medical exemptions for anything. Fair playing field. If an asthma medicine can help you perform better, even if it is to a "normal" standard, it is enhancing performance. This could make a big difference in performance but because of the exemption, allows him to fly under the radar. Just my view. Don't beleive one should be able to use any banned/performance enhancing substance regardless of your situation. Go with what you develop in terms of unaided human performance. No medicine used what so ever!

Half the peloton (hyperbole, but a LOT) have an asthma diagnosis and associated TUE's.

Not an outlier in this regard. The answer is just a lot simpler...

 

[doperhopper]

well, we all thought the today's road show was the most ridiculous thing we've ever seen... NOPE! The press conference was: Vroomie uttering magic formulas like "spokesman of clean cycling", "what else should clean rider do", etc, etc... and the ultimate proof: STAYING COOL! Better than 500 tests.

-------

“It’s not difficult for me to stay cool; it would be a different story if I had something to hide,” he said. “I’ve worked hard to get here, and I am really proud of that,” he said.

 

[Mr.38%]

Re:

Froome in the post interview

"We looked after ourselves on rest day"

LOL No sh!t

Even worse, he said other (top) riders weren't looking after themselves.

Cound unblocked Karl Vannieuwkerke...

 

[vanderbob]

Re:

Froome asks "What haven't I done?" said Froome. "I've tried to be as much as a spokesman as I can for clean cycling."

Go and do a Vo2max live streamed..........would be a start.

All data should live-streamed and publicly available for all riders. This is the 21st century for chrissake...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Froome in the post interview

"We looked after ourselves on rest day"

LOL No sh!t

Even worse, he said other (top) riders weren't looking after themselves.

Really?!

 

[Mr.38%]

Re: Re:

Froome in the post interview

"We looked after ourselves on rest day"

LOL No sh!t

Even worse, he said other (top) riders weren't looking after themselves.

Really?!

Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.

I just saw someone else mention it... he's becoming as much of a bully as Lance..

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Froome in the post interview

"We looked after ourselves on rest day"

LOL No sh!t

Even worse, he said other (top) riders weren't looking after themselves.

Really?!

Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.

He said "maybe some guys didn't quite look after themselves". Though still hilarious, no need to push things as if he presented it as facts.

 

[vanderbob]

Re: Re:

Well done Froomey and sky, as well as movistar. As for people who say this is impossible. I'm sorry you think everything in the human body is a known and measured scientific quantity.

Haven't measured it in a lab. Haven't seen it before outside of doping... Midichlorians, then? Holy spirit? Help me out here.

John Swanson

I think it's arrogant to assume that all factors relating to athletic peformance is set. It means they know all there is to know in the field of physiology and any further study is pointless since nothing new can be discovered. That to me is the pinnacle of stupidity.

IIRC not long ago there was discovered a system relating to filtration of cerebrospinal fluid that could mean new and increased knowledge. The body is full of yet to figure out even unknown unknowns.

Is Froome doping? I don't know. I don't really care that much. But please, enough with the stupidity.

I think you've got it backwards a bit. Your premise is that Froome has stumbled upon some unknown aspect of sports physiology and is exploiting it. Whether that exploitation be via training regime, nutrition, pillows or whatever. He doesn't know why, but it just works.

The problem is that out of the history of modern sports - Froome is the only one to have exploited this unknown phenomenon. The only one to stumble across this method (methods?) by happenstance. And when he did, no doctor associated with the team studied that phenomenon. They didn't test it. They didn't publish it. They didn't set up a sports clinic and make millions.

A more consistent explanation is that Froome is exploiting some well known science and it's being administered by a doctor. It's also on the banned substance list.

John Swanson

I'm not saying he stumbled upon it, or anything. I'm saying that ignoring the possibility of an unknown is arrogance. As for Froome being the only one. How do you know he is the only one? What if some domestique also exhibited it but didn't enjoy training so much that he reached a greater level? We don't know something might have occurred without us knowing about it because we might have been looking at something else at the time.

As for stumbling upon new methods and no one making millions of it? So because someone didn't do it before(is world famous, and making millions) it's impossible? What if someone, shock, learned something new? Integrated new information that some arrogant know it all had previously discarded because of all known theory said it was irrelevant?

But your right, lets not try to see if there is something we don't know that we thought we knew. Lets just say it's doping, and that doping to win a three week race without getting caught is as easy as it has ever been.

Are you implying that Sky and Co were able to unearth a previously unseen and undiscovered aspect of human physiology? This after at least a century of scientific approach in medical sciences? And this after 50-60 years of DDR's, USSR's and Cuba's sport medicine efforts aimed at creating best loaded athletes? Impossible. The only thing possible is to come up with a new doping method that has not been caught up with by the respective agencies. Sky is the limit...

 

[Mr.38%]

Re: Re:

Froome in the post interview

"We looked after ourselves on rest day"

LOL No sh!t

Even worse, he said other (top) riders weren't looking after themselves.

Really?!

Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.

He said "maybe some guys didn't quite look after themselves". Though still hilarious, no need to push things as if he presented it as facts.

Suggesting other riders (top tier or not) are not acting professional is pure arrogance. I don't think young Schleck picked them up for disco disco.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Even worse, he said other (top) riders weren't looking after themselves.

Really?!

Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.

He said "maybe some guys didn't quite look after themselves". Though still hilarious, no need to push things as if he presented it as facts.

Suggesting other riders (top tier or not) are not acting professional is pure arrogance. I don't think young Schleck picked them up for disco disco.

I'm not gonna argue with that, but that isn't what I was heading at.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily 2m2 minutes ago

#TDF2015, Stage 10. La Pierre Saint Martin (14.89 km, 7.72 %, 1150 m)
Chris Froome: 40 min 54 sec, 21.84 Kph, VAM 1687 m/h, 6.09 W/kg [DrF]

isn`t this within the realm of what is considered possible without juice?

Not for a 40 minute effort, I don't think. I'm no expert, though.

It is acceptable, but the calculations might be wrong. I prefer to wait for more data to come in!

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Re: Re:

if you feel so inclined

can i suggest a book by david epstein
called the sports gene

it will give you a very good understanding about the limits of human athletic performance

"let's ban all the kenyan individuals from athletics because they are faster long-distance runners than most people in the world"

in this case: that fact that is still not understandable, it doesn't make it impossible for froome to be genetically gifted the same way as other people who excel in something are

you must admit
the reason that the kenyans dominate long distance running
is quite compelling
don't you think

if you read the book that is

how any of this applies to the cyclist chris froome
is complete and utter rubbish


make it stop
please
make it stop

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

if you feel so inclined

can i suggest a book by david epstein
called the sports gene

it will give you a very good understanding about the limits of human athletic performance

"let's ban all the kenyan individuals from athletics because they are faster long-distance runners than most people in the world"

in this case: that fact that is still not understandable, it doesn't make it impossible for froome to be genetically gifted the same way as other people who excel in something are

you must admit
the reason that the kenyans dominate long distance running
is quite compelling
don't you think

if you read the book that is

how any of this applies to the cyclist chris froome
is complete and utter rubbish


make it stop
please
make it stop

well, there can be something about this "kenyan gene" argument: suppose there was an attractive Kenyan (I mean native, not British) postman around, say, good runner with extraordinary heart and "engine" ...

 

[Microtom]

Re: Re:

All data should live-streamed and publicly available for all riders. This is the 21st century for chrissake...

The data doesn't say enough, tho. Top riders should be followed around and filmed during the whole thing by officials. There's no other way.

These f*** rats are just like cops, if you don't film them constantly they won't behave.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Here's why I don't buy that. Froome was a UCI-Continental racer with only a modicum of results until the age of about 25. Within two years he was on the cusp of winning the Tour, and now is destroying everyone. All of this happened once he came to Sky.

Riders with natural talent don't do this. They are guys like Merckx, LeMond or Fignon, where from early on you knew they'd be great, and some days they'd crush the competition. I can't think of a single natural (ie. clean) rider in history who has done what Froome has. Can anyone else? I'd like to know.

wiggins
putting drugs aside and putting also natural abilities aside
We're ruling out the huge role training is playing
Who knows what kind of methods Sky might have found that works in order to reach these levels
I know it's naive but we cannot rule it out

Consider that Froome trained with Sky for 2 years and they were going to let him go, i think we can rule out a new method of training. He also only got a ride at Vuelta'11 because Nordhaug got ill!

If this training method works so well, why only Froome and Wiggins?

Why did Wiggins not win Il Giro?

Why did Porte not win Il Giro?

Why has it taken so long for Thomas, 5 or 6 years to suddenly improve on this training method?

Why have riders who left Sky not told other teams about this new training method? Consider Jullich and Yates are at Tinkov, Why is Contador not riding alongside Froome?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

The reality is:

Contador - cooked from giro
Quintana - good, but when has he beaten Froome who only beat him by 1 minute on an ideal stage for Froome
Nibali - already cooked
Froome - delivered a good performance, made to look stellar by the above

Froome delivered a performance that was doped. end of.

6.01w/kg for 40+ mins = doping.

6.09 w/kg is not mutant, as Merckx Index explained in his informative post a page or so back. But, as much as 'Sky bots can't accept things', the irony is, the 'Sky haters' are doing that very thing.

Ross Tucker calls 6.09 w/kg for 40+ minutes as mutant.

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 2 hours ago
6W/kg for 30 would be grey. 6.1 W/kg for 42 is not. It's off the charts high. Quintana is your benchmark - 5.9W for 40m

Doping.

I am usually on your side but reading Merckx index post makes you come across as rather arrogant. Not facts to back up your claims, just opinions.

The only arrogance I can see is coming from Sky.

 

[SeriousSam]

Edit: Sorry, this should have been in the older Froome thread.

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily 2m2 minutes ago

#TDF2015, Stage 10. La Pierre Saint Martin (14.89 km, 7.72 %, 1150 m)
Chris Froome: 40 min 54 sec, 21.84 Kph, VAM 1687 m/h, 6.09 W/kg [DrF]

isn`t this within the realm of what is considered possible without juice?

Yes, depending on who you talk to. SoS draws the line at 6.2-6.3, but that is for 25-30', so by their standards this is borderline. More than the 5.6 in the leaked data, though. But I don't know about wind conditions, if it turned out there was a significant net headwind, that would change things.

For comparison, Quintana is about 5.93, and Contador 5.70.

Last year, Nibs climbed Hautacam, about the same vertical ascent (1060 m) with the same power, 6.09 watts/kg. Also climbed Port de Bales, 1120 m, at 6.02 watts/kg.

Thought experiment. We take a time machine and go back a year. Nibali is on Horner's wheel, about to attack up Hautacam. We take him, go back into the time machine and drop him into today's leading group also about 10k from the finish.

How confident are you he can hold Froome's wheel all the way to the finish?

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.

I just saw someone else mention it... he's becoming as much of a bully as Lance..

oh come on

 

[gooner]

Chris Froome plans to undergo independent physiological testing after the Tour de France in an effort to counter allegations made by critics of his performances.

Press Association Sport understands Froome plans to allow independent doctors and assorted experts to examine him between the Tour's finish and the year's third Grand Tour, the Vuelta a Espana, which begins on August 22, to determine what makes him such an exceptional athlete.

http://sport.bt.com/more-sport-hub/more-sport/froome-to-undergo-independent-tests-S11363992532123

 

[snccdcno]

Chris Froome plans to undergo independent physiological testing after the Tour de France in an effort to counter allegations made by critics of his performances.

Press Association Sport understands Froome plans to allow independent doctors and assorted experts to examine him between the Tour's finish and the year's third Grand Tour, the Vuelta a Espana, which begins on August 22, to determine what makes him such an exceptional athlete.

http://sport.bt.com/more-sport-hub/more-sport/froome-to-undergo-independent-tests-S11363992532123

This springs to mind

 

[markene2]

I think Rasmussens tweet says it all.

 

[gooner]

They'll be made public.

It is understood that Froome plans to submit himself to a full physiological test in the wake of the Tour in an effort to demystify his performance data.

Among the things he wants to prove is how he benefits from his limb length and how he has an naturally low heart rate. Antoine Vayer, the former Festina coach turned cycling blogger, has been posting data for the last few days and weeks detailing Froome's performance data; his abnormally low heart rate, huge lung capacity and VO2 max, the maximum rate of oxygen consumption during incremental exercise.

Froome has spoken in the past of his heart rate not being able to exceed 170bpm, even when at peak power. Vayer himself included that statistic in a blog last year after talking to Michel Theze, a trainer at the World Cycling Centre where Froome was first based when he came over to Europe from Africa. It is understood that Froome plans to make the results of the tests public.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/chris-froome/11740170/Chris-Froome-commits-to-independent-testing-to-prove-he-is-clean-after-Tour-de-France.html