Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

TheSpud said:
thehog said:
TheSpud said:
thehog said:
Good post SiC, very apt.

Froome's GT progression:

Hits race official-zig zags up hill-holds on motorbike-pushes sprinter-almost loses contract-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

:)

Hits official - not a GT
Motorbike - injured
Pushes sprinter - fulfilling his role as a domestique
DNF - crash, it happens

Actually he was DQ'd for holding the motorbike.

So,

zig zags up hill-DQ-not being renewed-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

Because he has a knee injury, its well known ...

His result was "DQ", its a simple as that, that is what we are comparing.
 
Re: Re:

Merckx index said:
In that scenario, which is more likely: a consistent inability to match lab results, or some mistake in those results? I myself don’t pretend to know, but those who have raced might weigh in if they’re aware of a precedent for such a discrepancy. Has anyone ever heard of a rider whose lab tests indicated a certain level of power, but was never able to get close to this power on the road, over a period of several years?


Absolutely, Conti teams are full of guys that are super fast pro-level guys after 3 hrs, but can't produce after 6 hrs. Probably the biggest unknown in bike training, why are some guys good for 6 hrs day after day, why do some stronger guys burn up after 4 hrs? (Sure dope helps too ;) )

Early Froome seems to fit the mold of the Conti-level never-was. Didnt Vaughters say somewhere that he had heard of Froome testing very well, but couldn't do it on the road?
 
Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

thehog said:
TheSpud said:
thehog said:
TheSpud said:
thehog said:
Good post SiC, very apt.

Froome's GT progression:

Hits race official-zig zags up hill-holds on motorbike-pushes sprinter-almost loses contract-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

:)

Hits official - not a GT
Motorbike - injured
Pushes sprinter - fulfilling his role as a domestique
DNF - crash, it happens

Actually he was DQ'd for holding the motorbike.

So,

zig zags up hill-DQ-not being renewed-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

Because he has a knee injury, its well known ...

His result was "DQ", its a simple as that, that is what we are comparing.

I agree, officially he was DQ - because he held on to the motorbike because he was injured.
 
Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

TheSpud said:
thehog said:
TheSpud said:
thehog said:
Good post SiC, very apt.

Froome's GT progression:

Hits race official-zig zags up hill-holds on motorbike-pushes sprinter-almost loses contract-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

:)

Hits official - not a GT
Motorbike - injured
Pushes sprinter - fulfilling his role as a domestique
DNF - crash, it happens

Actually he was DQ'd for holding the motorbike.

So,

zig zags up hill-DQ-not being renewed-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

Because he has a knee injury, its well known ...
He was 100th on GC before the second rest day. Surely if his knee was a problem by then, he would've been sent home. And it must have been a significant problem if it caused a potential top 20 rider to drop 80 places on GC? Nevermind a potential winner of the thing.
 
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.
 
Froome doesn't just claim he was injured. He also claims the motorbike rider made Froome hold onto the moto. Froome didn't want to. He really didn't. The evil Italian made him.

In fact in every incident that's ever gone wrong in froomes life, it was someone else's fault. The zigzag? Froome told the mechanic to give him a smaller gear but the evil mechanic got upset at Froome for speaking his mind and gave Froome a bad gear for revenge.

What about hacking into the Kenyan fed emails. Froome surely was in the wrong there right?
Nope. Froome deserved to go to the world's The evil Mr mzwungy (whatever his name is) had stopped Froome from going out of spite. He even tried to kill one of froomes teammates. Froomes crime was that he heroically spoke out in favour of st kinjah who the evil Mr mzwungy was persecuting because he was jealous of kinjahs fame.


All of the above are actual stories Froome tells in his book. It's always someone else's fault. Froome is always innocent and naive and 100% in the right.
 
Re:

The Hitch said:
Froome doesn't just claim he was injured. He also claims the motorbike rider made Froome hold onto the moto. Froome didn't want to. He really didn't. The evil Italian made him.

In fact in every incident that's ever gone wrong in froomes life, it was someone else's fault. The zigzag? Froome told the mechanic to give him a smaller gear but the evil mechanic got upset at Froome for speaking his mind and gave Froome a bad gear for revenge.

What about hacking into the Kenyan fed emails. Froome surely was in the wrong there right?
Nope. Froome deserved to go to the world's The evil Mr mzwungy (whatever his name is) had stopped Froome from going out of spite. He even tried to kill one of froomes teammates. Froomes crime was that he heroically spoke out in favour of st kinjah who the evil Mr mzwungy was persecuting because he was jealous of kinjahs fame.


All of the above are actual stories Froome tells in his book. It's always someone else's fault. Froome is always innocent and naive and 100% in the right.


Remember also, it's Greg Henderson fault. For.... everything.
 
Re: Re:

Jeroen Swart said:
ScienceIsCool said:
bigcog said:
What would you expect of some riding their first grand tour in his first year as a pro with BarloWorld ?

In 1984, Greg Lemond finished 10th in his very first GT time trial on stage 7 of the Tour de France. He finished 2:08 back from Fignon after 67 km. On the 22nd stage of that Tour he placed 4th in a 51 km time trial, only 41 seconds back. He was riding as a domestique for Fignon for the powerhouse Renault-Elf. He was 23 years old.

This is what a future Tour winner used to look like. A Barloworld washout? Not so much.

John Swanson

Random riders and their consecutive GT results:

Froome:

83 / 34 / 2

Dumoulin:

41 / 33 / 6

Yates:

82 / 50 / 4

Meintjies:

55 / 10 / 8

Aru:

42 / 3

Bardet:

15 / 6 / 9 / 2

Quintana

36 /2 / 1

Aru was sick in the first 2 weeks and he was really good in the final week for Nibali in his first grand tour.

Quintana was a top 4-5 climber in the final week behind Spanish trio in his first grand tour.

Bardet had a very impressive ride at Amstel when he was a neo pro and was hyped since his youth years.

Foe Domoulin, check the topic in clinic and Meintjes and Yates managed a top 10 without showing their faces for the entire tour and benefited from other riders mishap.

For Froome, first he was seen behind Menchov for 8 seconds, then he rode a TT while most of the field was just chilling as they had nothing to ride and he was slower than the great champion Pate anyway. After that, he zigzagged and disqualified for holding on motos and was about to sign for a minimum wage contact for Vaugthers or Lampre and the rest is history.

By the way, if you compare Froome with Meintjes, you just prove that you are utterly clueless and your comparison is clearly dumb without any context anyway.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

burning said:
Jeroen Swart said:
ScienceIsCool said:
bigcog said:
What would you expect of some riding their first grand tour in his first year as a pro with BarloWorld ?

In 1984, Greg Lemond finished 10th in his very first GT time trial on stage 7 of the Tour de France. He finished 2:08 back from Fignon after 67 km. On the 22nd stage of that Tour he placed 4th in a 51 km time trial, only 41 seconds back. He was riding as a domestique for Fignon for the powerhouse Renault-Elf. He was 23 years old.

This is what a future Tour winner used to look like. A Barloworld washout? Not so much.

John Swanson

Random riders and their consecutive GT results:

Froome:

83 / 34 / 2


Dumoulin:

41 / 33 / 6

Yates:

82 / 50 / 4

Meintjies:

55 / 10 / 8

Aru:

42 / 3

Bardet:

15 / 6 / 9 / 2

Quintana

36 /2 / 1

Aru was sick in the first 2 weeks and he was really good in the final week for Nibali in his first grand tour.

Quintana was a top 4-5 climber in the final week behind Spanish trio in his first grand tour.

Bardet had a very impressive ride at Amstel when he was a neo pro and was hyped since his youth years.

Foe Domoulin, check the topic in clinic and Meintjes and Yates managed a top 10 without showing their faces for the entire tour and benefited from other riders mishap.

For Froome, first he was seen behind Menchov for 8 seconds, then he rode a TT while most of the field was just chilling as they had nothing to ride and he was slower than the great champion Pate anyway. After that, he zigzagged and disqualified for holding on motos and was about to sign for a minimum wage contact for Vaugthers or Lampre and the rest is history.

By the way, if you compare Froome with Meintjes, you just prove that you are utterly clueless and your comparison is clearly dumb without any context anyway.

It cannot be stated how much Jeroen Swart trolled with this post.^^^^

Froome: Correct consecutive GT results

83 / 34 / DQ

Also ignoring multiple other GT winners and their 1st 3 results from GTs.

Whoever pays the piper calls the tune.
 
Also, Cobo's consecutive GT results are 10 - 1.

Doesn't seem so out of nowhere when you take the two years of bupkiss out, huh? Same goes for Froome, his progress looks less crazy when you take out the fact that he didn't finish a GT between May 2009 and September 2011 and his progress had been going backwards. If you just look at the GT results, Cobo has one of the most reasonable looking progressions of any GT winner in the last 20 years (starting at the edge of the top 20, winning a mountain stage before withdrawing from another, making the lower end of the top 10 with a stage win then progressing to victory), but when riders' other results are taken into account, a different image starts to emerge; taking just his GT results erases his completely abysmal 2010 season as he didn't enter one.

Also just listing DNFs without context makes things hard to take into account. After all, these are all top level GT racers, recording GT DNFs for a variety of reasons:
- Vincenzo Nibali is kicked out of the 2015 Vuelta for holding a car to get back to the bunch after crashing in the first road stage (no clues to his form can be drawn)
- myriad week 1 crashes (Valverde 2006, Contador 2016, Froome 2014, Wiggins 2011, Horner 2009) before we can really see how a rider is performing in a relevant stage
- Joseba Beloki crashes out of the 2003 Tour late in the first set of mountains after being one of the best climbers (clue to strong form, but crashing out)
- Nairo Quintana crashes out of the 2014 Vuelta in the leader's jersey in the TT at the end of week 1 (likewise)
- Andy Schleck is thrown off the 2009 Vuelta for drinking (rider not taking race seriously so not a credible form guide)
- Saunier Duval withdraw from 2008 Tour after doping scandals (riders may have been performing strongly, but in circumstances shady as hell)
- Bradley Wiggins withdraws from 2013 Giro after losing all nerve in the descents (rider may have had form but was not competitive for other reasons)
- Levi Leipheimer crashes out of the 2009 Tour in week 2 (in strong form but only a domestique so final result likely to be affected by that)
- Fränk Schleck withdraws from 2012 Giro in top 10 after 2 weeks (rider had form, but focus is on another race)
- Michael Rasmussen is pulled from the 2007 Tour by his team in week 3 for lying about his whereabouts (rider was on superb form and would almost certainly have won the race, but was doing so in shady circumstances and was pulled from the race as a result)
- Ilnur Zakarin crashes out of the 2016 Giro three stages from the finish, while on the attack while 5th on the GC (rider was on superb form and would likely have scored a very good final GC position)
- Chris Froome is thrown off the 2010 Giro three stages from the finish while lying lower than 100th in the GC (rider had very little form and was not going to be a GC relevance; DQ more about just trying to survive the race than to salvage anything à la Nibali)

With the exception of Froome's and Nibali's DQs, all of these will just simply be recorded as "DNF" if you take results alone into account. The cold result statement is effective in some respects but is not in others. For example, Froome managed 36th in the (original) 2009 Giro results. Barloworld had no real GC threat (Soler was essentially foraging alone) and Froome was mostly quiet, but got into a break in an intermediate stage or two that was allowed to go and gained him some time back. The same GC result was achieved by Quintana in the 2012 Vuelta, his first GT, and where he was allowed to drop time in week 1, and then by week 3 he was one of the top 3 climbers in the race, having to drop back to pull Valverde in that three-way duel, with the strong results in the second half of the race from climbing with the best pulling him up to that 36th in the GC. Two completely contrasting ways of reaching the same end (one working as a team player, dropping time then being with the elites working for his leader, the other having no real leader so stage hunting), which create different impressions in the heads of the viewers. I didn't leave the 2009 Giro thinking Froome was a potential GT winner, I thought of him as a promising stagehunter. I did, however, leave the 2012 Vuelta thinking Quintana was not just a potential but an almost nailed on GT winner.

For the record, I did a long comparison some time ago which reduced GT winners' GT performances down to the final GC results only, and the net result was that it made the likes of Wiggins and Hesjedal look the most bizarre, because they were so far down the GC before their transformations, as opposed to the puncheur-turned-goat riders like di Luca and Scarponi who always had a smattering of DNFs mixed in with decent GC results.
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Indeed, once a cheater always a cheater. Anyone caught doping should be banned for life. Of course that means you would gave been very bored and upset over last 4-5 years. ;)
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Just out of interest, do you think Contador is riding clean these days?
 
Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Just out of interest, do you think Contador is riding clean these days?
What? No, of course not.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

bigcog said:
LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Indeed, once a cheater always a cheater. Anyone caught doping should be banned for life. Of course that means you would gave been very bored and upset over last 4-5 years. ;)

By the same token, if that kind of policy was introduced then the likely hood is that Anti-doping would be properly funded, independent, exonerating whistleblowers and up to date with testing and their would be no teamSky. :)
 
Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

thehog said:
TheSpud said:
thehog said:
Good post SiC, very apt.

Froome's GT progression:

Hits race official-zig zags up hill-holds on motorbike-pushes sprinter-almost loses contract-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

:)

Hits official - not a GT
Motorbike - injured
Pushes sprinter - fulfilling his role as a domestique
DNF - crash, it happens

Actually he was DQ'd for holding the motorbike.

So,

zig zags up hill-DQ-not being renewed-2-2-1-DNF-1-1

Or the Walsh version;

Won Atomic Jock Race-Beat Tour de France winner Alberto Contador in a Mountain Top Finish-2-2-1-1

:lol:
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Indeed, once a cheater always a cheater. Anyone caught doping should be banned for life. Of course that means you would gave been very bored and upset over last 4-5 years. ;)

By the same token, if that kind of policy was introduced then the likely hood is that Anti-doping would be properly funded, independent, exonerating whistleblowers and up to date with testing and their would be no teamSky. :)

And no Contadope, Valverde et al, no ? You can't have it both ways....
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
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Re: Re:

bigcog said:
Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Indeed, once a cheater always a cheater. Anyone caught doping should be banned for life. Of course that means you would gave been very bored and upset over last 4-5 years. ;)

By the same token, if that kind of policy was introduced then the likely hood is that Anti-doping would be properly funded, independent, exonerating whistleblowers and up to date with testing and their would be no teamSky. :)

And no Contadope, Valverde et al, no ? You can't have it both ways....

I would have none of them. None. I dont want it both ways. Not a fan of Contador, Piti et al.....
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Indeed, once a cheater always a cheater. Anyone caught doping should be banned for life. Of course that means you would gave been very bored and upset over last 4-5 years. ;)

By the same token, if that kind of policy was introduced then the likely hood is that Anti-doping would be properly funded, independent, exonerating whistleblowers and up to date with testing and their would be no teamSky. :)

And no Contadope, Valverde et al, no ? You can't have it both ways....

I would have none of them. None. I dont want it both ways. Not a fan of Contador, Piti et al.....

Fair enough, we agree on that. The hipocrisy of some posters on here is laughable though in that regard.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
LaFlorecita said:
If you're injured, you either struggle on like Sam Bennett and Michael Morkov at the most recent TDF or you quit. You don't hang onto a motorbike. It's not an excuse. It's cheating. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't cheat on Monday but not on Tuesday.

Indeed, once a cheater always a cheater. Anyone caught doping should be banned for life. Of course that means you would gave been very bored and upset over last 4-5 years. ;)

By the same token, if that kind of policy was introduced then the likely hood is that Anti-doping would be properly funded, independent, exonerating whistleblowers and up to date with testing and their would be no teamSky. :)

And no Contadope, Valverde et al, no ? You can't have it both ways....

I would have none of them. None. I dont want it both ways. Not a fan of Contador, Piti et al.....

Haven't you read the Gospel of Saint David (Walsh)? All Sky doubters are automatically either jealous French people or Contador fans.
 
Feb 24, 2014
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And we're all so Froome weary that his late attack up that climb yesterday doesn't raise an eyebrow... he just tapped into to his "inner strength" :rolleyes:

Maybe we're all condition to it now and the not normal becomes normal.
 
May 26, 2009
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Re:

deeno1975 said:
And we're all so Froome weary that his late attack up that climb yesterday doesn't raise an eyebrow... he just tapped into to his "inner strength" :rolleyes:

Maybe we're all condition to it now and the not normal becomes normal.

He always does that kind of move in the Vuelta, where it looks like he's been dropped only to power back up and past others. Never seen him do that 'trick' in the Tour though.
 
Re: Re:

BYOP88 said:
deeno1975 said:
And we're all so Froome weary that his late attack up that climb yesterday doesn't raise an eyebrow... he just tapped into to his "inner strength" :rolleyes:

Maybe we're all condition to it now and the not normal becomes normal.

He always does that kind of move in the Vuelta, where it looks like he's been dropped only to power back up and past others. Never seen him do that 'trick' in the Tour though.

Steeper climbs it would be suggested. Holds his power to the end. Or maybe he battery is overworked and can only power on for short periods?