Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Last night I re watched the stage, trying to make sense of what Froome did......

I still can't , but I noticed two different paces - One set by his crew when he started losing ground, which appeared to be "within the norm" - once all the help was gone the 2nd one was unleashed - the "magic Yo-Yo stroke" appeared and he was off passing riders by in the saddle with an inexplicable ease, while everybody in the race was suffering..... there were those aerial pictures showing him passing people like nothing-- it was like a flashback to LA's 2000 Hautacam - but then Froome was all the time in the damn saddle :eek:

101 on Cycling tell us when a rider needs to either open a gap or catch the ones on front, bigger gears are necessary to go faster....... with Froome is the opposite: lowest gears on cruise mode will do instead .......

it was so sickening to watch that BS....... :mad:
 
I don't get the consternation regarding Froome's performance yesterday. He lost 30 seconds on a single big climb stage, while trying to pace himself to ensure he didn't absolutely crack. That's way less suspicious than him utterly dominating the Tour de France from the front every year.
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
El Pistolero said:
thehog said:
deeno1975 said:
Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/
Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.
After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.
Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.
:confused:

Maybe compared to Froome he's not that suspicious, but then compared to Froome anyone looks clean.
And in fact, Quintana and Valverde were both more suspicious than Froome yesterday if you ask me
 
Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
thehog said:
El Pistolero said:
thehog said:
deeno1975 said:
Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/
Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.
After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.
Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.
:confused:

Maybe compared to Froome he's not that suspicious, but then compared to Froome anyone looks clean.
And in fact, Quintana and Valverde were both more suspicious than Froome yesterday if you ask me
Quintana is doping, I just don't have a huge issue with it. Froome is clearly less talented that the top 10 in this race but is getting the most benefit from his doping.
 
Re:

El Pistolero said:
Probably a motor, he turns it on when no one's near him. This is the only explanation one can give for this donkey turned elite climber anyway. We're talking about the guy who got kicked out of the Giro because he couldn't climb fast enough for crying out loud. That never even happened to Cavendish.

Does he have video footage of Crookson cheating his wife or what?
Contador fans coming here and disgracing an amazing cyclist with their stupid theories since their boy cant beat him heads up. To me it looked like contadors motor stopped working. Probably an electrical issue. Not his fault though; he can always come up with a million excuses anyway. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Really hilarious to see.
 
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
Sky have no doubt learned a valuable lesson from USPS and Lance that too much is simply too much.
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
El Pistolero said:
thehog said:
deeno1975 said:
Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/
Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.
After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.
Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.
Your Froome hate is sickening when known dopers are roaming around in the peloton.
Some food for thought meanwhile: " You can call me a cheater and doper until the cows come home. But the fact remains that in a race where everybody had equal opportunity, I played the game, and I played it well."
Tyler Hamilton
 
Apr 3, 2011
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Re:

Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
looks like marginal PR gain, similar to that "physiological testing" thingy - thoughtfully prepared to make the Alien look a bit Human (we've seen that also at the Tour: circus aeropedalling on the descent, nice, entertaining, but absolutely unnecessary)
 
Re: Re:

doperhopper said:
Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
looks like marginal PR gain, similar to that "physiological testing" thingy - thoughtfully prepared to make the Alien look a bit Human (we've seen that also at the Tour: circus aeropedalling on the descent, nice, entertaining, but absolutely unnecessary)

Yep. A page right out of Wonderboys handbook
 
Mar 6, 2009
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Re:

Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
Well this is a problem of the general view of doping. If you believed what was discussed here, then it would seem that doping is about 99% responsible for a riders performance when in all likelihood it is more like 5-10% or even smaller. Things like form, mentality, freshness, natural recovery(non doping), training(non doping), personal issues, motivation, team strength, team aims, timing, luck etc, etc are all vital compnents of performance. The riders can be doped all they want but if the other components are not there, then they wont be performing to the top of their game either. Sadly, too often performance is only viewed through the lenses of doping. Thus it doesn't make sense a lot of the time.
 
Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.

FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

silvergrenade said:
thehog said:
El Pistolero said:
thehog said:
deeno1975 said:
Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/
Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.
After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.
Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.
Your Froome hate is sickening when known dopers are roaming around in the peloton.
Some food for thought meanwhile: " You can call me a cheater and doper until the cows come home. But the fact remains that in a race where everybody had equal opportunity, I played the game, and I played it well."
Tyler Hamilton
Hamilton's quote is wrong and misguided.

I dont see Froome hate. What i see is the biggest transformation ever in pro cycling being called on it. Not hate, frustration. Massive difference.
 
Re:

DanielSong39 said:
Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of sh!t, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....
 
Re: Re:

hfer07 said:
DanielSong39 said:
Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of ****, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....
never won the giro, never won the vuelta, won 1 monument.
 
Re:

Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
If the Vuelta was as important as the TDF, then froome would be in 1st
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
If the Vuelta was as important as the TDF, then froome would be in 1st
Winning the Vuelta after winning Tour de France is not that easy. This year, we see that Froome is below his best and Movistar is clearly stronger than Sky.

If Froome skipped the Tour and brought his "A" team to the Vuelta he would have a much better chance.

I don't rule out Froome going for the Giro-Vuelta double once he is supplanted as team leader at Sky. Maybe Landa will surpass him in a couple of years - you never know.
 
Aug 30, 2016
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From what I've seen, and freely admit this is just an informed guess, the Tour is rigged. It's less a race than a game to provide the sponsors with cash, And it works, it brings new cycling fans in and a heap of money. In that respect, it's a positive thing.
BUT if you knew the GT was rigged, would you put any effort into it? Quintana & Contador are clearly putting effort into La Vuelta, which remains, in my mind, a race. And so much more exciting.
 
May 26, 2010
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inkdabink said:
From what I've seen, and freely admit this is just an informed guess, the Tour is rigged. It's less a race than a game to provide the sponsors with cash, And it works, it brings new cycling fans in and a heap of money. In that respect, it's a positive thing.
BUT if you knew the GT was rigged, would you put any effort into it? Quintana & Contador are clearly putting effort into La Vuelta, which remains, in my mind, a race. And so much more exciting.
While i agree the TdF is 'rigged', the rider has to get to Paris. As we saw in 2011, Wiggins crashed out and Froome in 2014 crashed out. So yes Sky are the team who it appears are designated to win, but they have to get their rider to Paris. So other teams prepare, because they are next in line to scoop up the winnings should this happen.
 
May 26, 2010
19,530
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Re: Re:

pmcg76 said:
Fergoose said:
Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?
Well this is a problem of the general view of doping. If you believed what was discussed here, then it would seem that doping is about 99% responsible for a riders performance when in all likelihood it is more like 5-10% or even smaller. Things like form, mentality, freshness, natural recovery(non doping), training(non doping), personal issues, motivation, team strength, team aims, timing, luck etc, etc are all vital compnents of performance. The riders can be doped all they want but if the other components are not there, then they wont be performing to the top of their game either. Sadly, too often performance is only viewed through the lenses of doping. Thus it doesn't make sense a lot of the time.
Doping plays a massive part of a riders preparation. Mentality, freshness, recovery, training, motivation, team strength are part of the doping enhancement. Luck is also integral, but teams cannot prepare for it, all they can do is prepare fully and hope luck favours those prepared. But as Sky found out in 2011 and 2014 tdfs, when your team leader crashes out, so goes your tour win.

You cannot win a GT without doping, hence the importance teams place on it and why it is such a big part of discussions in forums.

It doesn't make sense to discuss winning perfromances while ignoring doping.
 
Re: Re:

Singer01 said:
hfer07 said:
DanielSong39 said:
Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of ****, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....
never won the giro, never won the vuelta, won 1 monument.
2016 Overall Wins by SKY

Volta A Valencia
Herald Sun
Algarve
Paris-Nice
E3 Harelbeke
L-B-L
Trentino
Dauphine
Tour
Artic Race in Norway

*19 Stage wings


BTW If Il Giro & Vuelta were real targets for them - they would bother sending an A team to those GT
 
Re: Re:

hfer07 said:
Singer01 said:
hfer07 said:
DanielSong39 said:
Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of ****, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....
never won the giro, never won the vuelta, won 1 monument.
2016 Overall Wins by SKY

Volta A Valencia
Herald Sun
Algarve
Paris-Nice
E3 Harelbeke
L-B-L
Trentino
Dauphine
Tour
Artic Race in Norway

*19 Stage wings


BTW If Il Giro & Vuelta were real targets for them - they would bother sending an A team to those GT
Also, Sky has genuinely targeted the Giro in 2013 with Uran (2nd - after losing time babysitting Wigans) and Landa this year and has targeted the Vuelta almost every year since 2011 with podiums from Wigans and Froome (who should have won in 2011).
 
Re: Froome marginal gains

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image.
Froome just looked awkward on the bike during this last stage. He doesn't have 'style', and I was saying to myself : "How can this be mechanically efficient?"

It would seem that bad form would offset a lot of 'marginal gains'. Pedaling style is analyzed even at the beginner level of cycling
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
inkdabink said:
From what I've seen, and freely admit this is just an informed guess, the Tour is rigged. It's less a race than a game to provide the sponsors with cash, And it works, it brings new cycling fans in and a heap of money. In that respect, it's a positive thing.
BUT if you knew the GT was rigged, would you put any effort into it? Quintana & Contador are clearly putting effort into La Vuelta, which remains, in my mind, a race. And so much more exciting.
While i agree the TdF is 'rigged', the rider has to get to Paris. As we saw in 2011, Wiggins crashed out and Froome in 2014 crashed out. So yes Sky are the team who it appears are designated to win, but they have to get their rider to Paris. So other teams prepare, because they are next in line to scoop up the winnings should this happen.
What a load of b0llocks

Quintana Contador etc built their entire season around the Tour. Why would they bother riding the Tour instead of the Giro if it was rigged as you claim? If ASO were selling out to get more viewership and coverage in different areas, well the British market is already established at this point. ASO would gain a lot more from a Colombian winning the Tour at this point than a "Briton".
 

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