Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Dear Wiggo]

So incredible to me that a rider with a palmares like Froome's up to 2009 was enough information for Brailsford to hire him, with no physiological testing - certainly no V02max testing, apparently - to go on.

He's a pro, so we'll hire him.

Amazing.



And WCC tested Froome, but there's no mention of the test results from that period either - like Brailsford did not use them or know about them or... What happened to all the careful attention to detail, etc?

 

[bobbins]

They must have mislaid the tests that were done pre-Vuelta 2011 that showed Froome responded in a similar way to Wiggins.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Here is an article about the fall of Armstrong from July 2012:

Of course that 6.2 is talking about an hour(ish) effort.

Not 20 mins.

6.7 for an hour and 6.7 for 20 mins are very different discussions.

 

[deeno1975]

Not even by the time the 2013 Tour rolled around did they have a clue about Froome's VO2max: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...16iy0&list=PLnG1FjIUmTN2KEDvniGehWBcon56ZtNr2

I presume the VO2 max is one of the fundamental tests out there to determine an athletes potential. If they did not do a VO2 Max test then how did they determine that Froome had the potential to be a GT contender?

I as a lowly amateur even did a VO2 max test way back in 2001.

Note: I will not publish these results as it may embarrass (me )

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I presume the VO2 max is one of the fundamental tests out there to determine an athletes potential. If they did not do a VO2 Max test then how did they determine that Froome had the potential to be a GT contender?

GT contender is certainly an interesting question - but why even hire him in the first place? Was he really the 10th - 20th strongest possible Brit rider around?

According to the newest narrative coming out of Team Sky, it was because they can spot potential and develop it.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Ellingworth knew him and had done some work with him in the past.


The main, pragmatic reason was that Barloworld went belly up so he was out of contract, available, and probably fairly cheap.

Half the initial announced signings (3 of 6) were ex-Barloworld. And a 4th (JLA) was added later.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

From 2007 to Romandie, 2011:
Froome lost by an average 6.4 seconds/km and had an average placing of 27.6%. His best performance during that time was a loss of 3.3 s/km and 11% ranking.

From Tour de Suisse, 2011 to present:
Froome lost by an average 1.7 seconds/km and had an average placing of 4.7%. Excluding a single bad performance in Romandie (2012), his worst performance during that period was a loss of 1.9 s/km and a ranking of 6.5%. (!!!)

Adding a bit more analysis: Mid-season, 2011, Froome improved his time trial speed by an average of (6.4-1.7 = 4.7) 4.7 seconds per kilometer as compared to his rivals. If he normally rides at ~50 km/hr (3600 seconds / 50 km = 72 seconds/km), then 4.7 s/km represents a 4.7/72 x 100% = 6.5% improvement in speed.

Put into perspective, this is roughly equivalent to a change in power of (1.065)^3 = 1.20, or 20%. Let that sink in. He improved his power output by an average of 20%...

Donkey to racehorse, indeed.

John Swanson

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Adding a bit more analysis: Mid-season, 2011, Froome improved his time trial speed by an average of (6.4-1.7 = 4.7) 4.7 seconds per kilometer as compared to his rivals. If he normally rides at ~50 km/hr (3600 seconds / 50 km = 72 seconds/km), then 4.7 s/km represents a 4.7/72 x 100% = 6.5% improvement in speed.

Put into perspective, this is roughly equivalent to a change in power of (1.065)^3 = 1.20, or 20%. Let that sink in. He improved his power output by an average of 20%...

Donkey to racehorse, indeed.

We really need to see a pre-2011 and 2011+ BP profile for Froome.

No wonder no power data was released for pre-2011.

 

[SundayRider]

We really need to see a pre-2011 and 2011+ BP profile for Froome.

No wonder no power data was released for pre-2011.

I'm guessing they were not released due to the fact that his FTP increased from around 380w to somewhere in the region of 440w?

 

[EnacheV]

bilhazaria story is exactly to cover/explain this raise

if the raise was caused by drugs or getting rid of disease+other non-doping improvements , we will wait and see

there is a difference between wishful thinking and reality

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm guessing they were not released due to the fact that his FTP increased from around 380w to somewhere in the region of 440w?

He only just nudged Wiggins in the 2011 Vuelta TT. But that Wiggins was slightly underpowered due to injury. Wiggins is doing around 450W in a TT, and they are roughly the same shape / weight, so m^2 frontal area may be in the ballpark also.

What gets me is Froome's aero has not even been checked in the wind tunnel. :?

I think the years in the pursuit position give Wiggins an advantage in generating power in the TT, where clearly Froome climbs better, but yes, their power is probably around the same: 440-450W.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Let me see if I understand. To make sure they could re-sign Froome at the most advantageous cost to the team, Sky decide to medicate him with their unique zero-to-hero formulation - never before seen in elite endurance sport.

Or did they finally allow him access to the meds to make sure someone else hired him?

Story checks out.

 

[SundayRider]

Let me see if I understand. To make sure they could re-sign Froome at the most advantageous cost to the team, Sky decide to medicate him with their unique zero-to-hero formulation - never before seen in elite endurance sport.

Or did they finally allow him access to the meds to make sure someone else hired him?

Story checks out.

Obviously they would much rather hire a rider who could win the biggest races and pay him more than hire an average middle/back of the pack rider who is ten a penny. Him getting stuff himself and the team turning a blind eye is a pretty big probability too.

 

[EnacheV]

Obviously they would much rather hire a rider who could win the biggest races and pay him more than hire an average middle/back of the pack rider who is ten a penny. Him getting stuff himself and the team turning a blind eye is a pretty big probability too.

So we have here the "Froome the lone wolf doper" theory starts? In this context, is it Sky a clean team ? Or they have a team doping program + lone wolfs self doping ?

 

[SundayRider]

So we have here the "Froome the lone wolf doper" theory starts? In this context, is it Sky a clean team ? Or they have a team doping program + lone wolfs self doping ?

Could be either or could be team encourages them but they have to get the stuff/organise things themselves.

 

[the sceptic]

Of course that 6.2 is talking about an hour(ish) effort.

Not 20 mins.

6.7 for an hour and 6.7 for 20 mins are very different discussions.

6.7 for 20 minutes is still superhuman.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Obviously they would much rather hire a rider who could win the biggest races and pay him more than hire an average middle/back of the pack rider who is ten a penny. Him getting stuff himself and the team turning a blind eye is a pretty big probability too.

Outsourcing. The real marginal gain? How would a soon to be out of contract, 'not even pack fodder' athlete gain exclusive access to such a miracle drug?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Outsourcing. The real marginal gain? How would a soon to be out of contract, 'not even pack fodder' athlete gain exclusive access to such a miracle drug?

Same way a not even pack fodder Wiggins did in 2009.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

6.7 for 20 minutes is still superhuman.

Link?
(am I doing it right?)

 

[the sceptic]

Link?
(am I doing it right?)

6.7 - 5% is 6,3w/kg.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Since 2012, 6.4W/kg is the new 6W/kg.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

6.7 - 5% is 6,3w/kg.

I was really asking what text you're using as a source. If it's so self-evident, it should take you less time to give me a pointer than another patronizing reply

 

[the sceptic]

I was really asking what text you're using as a source. If it's so self-evident, it should take you less time to give me a pointer than another patronizing reply

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/test-training-zones-i-50-l-en.html

 

[EnacheV]

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/test-training-zones-i-50-l-en.html

again, for 1000's time

There a several ways of testing your fitness on the bike.

this numbers express your fitness on the bike.

They don't tell HOW you achieved that fitness.

Posting just because im bored, ofc some guys will still believe that 6.0000001 W/KG is superhuman while 6.00000000 W/KG is normal.

 

[the sceptic]

again, for 1000's time



this numbers express your fitness on the bike.

They don't tell HOW you achieved that fitness.

Posting just because im bored, ofc some guys will still believe that 6.0000001 W/KG is superhuman while 6.00000000 W/KG is normal.

it says that you should subtract 5% from your 20 minute effort to get your FTP. Do you disagree with that? If so, why?