Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[deeno1975]

Because he didn't give contradictory statements, the journalists transcribed it incorrectly. I can't tell you how many times we've read an article and Chris has said "I never said that"... but what you can you do. All we can try and do now is get the facts out there.

Can you please tell us what is Chris's tour weight? % body fat?

Thanks for participating.

 

[The Hitch]

1. Your together, that's my point there.

2. 2010- http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=5789&year=2010&all=1&current=0
2009- http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=5789&year=2009&all=1&current=0
2008- http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=5789&year=2008&all=1&current=0
Yest, those are definitely the results of someone that would go onto becoming the greatest cyclist in the world in the span of a few months (from Vuelta onward).

3. So he's still making the money he was making back when he was doing pretty much nothing of note. Now that he's podiumed the Vuelta, placed 2nd in the Tour, won the Tour, and pretty much become the greatest cyclist in the world he's not making any more money? Then he needs to fire his agent and get a new one to negotiate his contract.

Wiggins said all tour de France winners make millions of pounds. Is Froome not getting millions?

That's strange. Maybe its all going to the doctors.

 

[Merckx index]

Okay, I'll do my best to spell it out for you.

All the controversy about Chris' VO2 max came about because Fred Grappe estimated that Chris' VO2 max had to be between 85 - 90.
http://www.fredericgrappe.com/?p=1322

Michel Theze has estimated that Chris' VO2max is above 85 based on his testing with Chris in 2007 at a heavier weight, while he was staying at the UCI centre in Aigle. Michel Theze has been talking about it for the last two years. Clearly those who wanted to find out what Chris' VO2 max is, haven't looked hard enough. Here is yet another article that includes those current estimations.
http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/rue89-sport/2013/07/21/remporte-tour-france-chris-froome-lanomalie-244390

So I'm failing to see what exactly people are struggling with?!?!

You're so determined to believe that Chris is doping that you will constantly disregard the facts.

Thank you for this information.

The first link you provided does give Grappe's estimate of 85-90. He doesn't say, though, exactly how he made this estimate, and it doesn't help that he says, " A ce jour, vu la nature de ses performances, rien n’indique qu’elles puissent être réalisées avec une VO2max supérieure à 90 ml/min/kg." I think what he means to say is nothing indicates that it is necessary for his V02max to be over 90". Of course his performances could be performed by someone with a V02max over 90. This is just careless writing.

I can accept that 85-90 is possible, because based on Alex's power curves, which he posted upthread, CF's times could be consistent with this value if he has a high efficiency and high lactate threshold. As I said before, though, unless we know those values, we can't be sure what V02max is indicated. Grappe refers to these parameters at the end, but doesn't do a good job IMO of emphasizing how critical they are. He says they may vary by "a few percent" from one athlete to another, when in fact they may vary considerably more.

Also, Grappe does not explain why, if CF's V02max is so high, this was not in evidence before 2011. The other link you posted does not in fact list any value. It just repeats the by now well known story of how CF was an unappreciated talent, and why he could have performed at a relatively mediocre level despite having the talent to dominate the peloton,and so on and so on. As discussed upthread, CF's TT times indicate an increase in FTP of about 15% from pre- to post-2011.

Your claim, I think, is that measurements made in 2007 were indicative of an absolute V02max that would have supported a V02max of 85-90 if CF had not been a little heavy (though again, the link you supplied says nothing of this at all). But since TT prowess depends on power/surface area, rather than power/weight, if CF really had this high an absolute V02max, he should have been much better TTer. A little extra weight would not make a difference of 15%. In fact, if the 5 kg. loss mentioned in some link here earlier is correct, it would increase TT speed only about 4%, and even power/weight would of course increase only about that 7%. So loss of weight alone can't account for his increased performance in either climbing or TTng, let alone an increase that occurred almost literally overnight in the summer of 2011.

Your contribution here is helpful, but I hope to see more.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

In 2008, Chris rode the Tour de France but finished 2:22:33 behind the winner. He has a world beating VO2max, yet he's nowhere. Giro de Capo might mean something to you, but 23 year olds win the white jersey at the Tour. In 2008 it was Andy Schleck and he finished about 12 minutes back.

Can you shed some light on why Chris was apparently very ordinary? And yet 3 years later almost wins the Vuelta?

Dr Steve Peters is quoted by David Walsh as saying Chris' blood parameters were the same pre and post 2011 Vuelta, Michelle.

I am curious how this can be misquoted or misconstrued, and how it lines up with the effects of the Bilzharia Chris had. Surely the Bilzharia was impacting on his blood (Hgb at least) to cause him to basically be a groupetto rider.

I for one cannot accept that tactics and I don't even remember the other thing, sorry, but that they alone were the difference.

Is there an explanation in his book for why he was essentially crap, and is now God on a bike?

 

[Granville57]

I couldn't care less what you think about my tone.

Again, maybe you should, because your current one doesn't help your argument. I couldn't care less either way though.

The UCI did not inform Chris about bilharzia.. not sure where you get that from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o&t=10m36s

Granted, it was "the doctors" who informed him (as a result of his UCI blood passport check). But there is no mention of your claim that Chris requested the bilharzia screening based on his brother's experience. He actually sounds a bit surprised by this thing "called bilharzia."

 

[Digger]

In 2008, Chris rode the Tour de France but finished 2:22 behind the winner. He has a world beating VO2max, yet he's nowhere. Giro de Capo might mean something to you, but 23 year olds win the white jersey at the Tour. In 2008 it was Andy Schleck and he finished about 12 minutes back.

Can you shed some light on why Chris was apparently very ordinary? And yet 3 years later almost wins the Vuelta?

Dr Steve Peters is quoted by David Walsh as saying Chris' blood parameters were the same pre and post 2011 Vuelta, Michelle.

I am curious how this can be misquoted or misconstrued, and how it lines up with the effects of the Bilzharia Chris had. Surely the Bilzharia was impacting on his blood (Hgb at least) to cause him to basically be a groupetto rider.

I for one cannot accept that tactics and I don't even remember the other thing, sorry, but that they alone were the difference.
Is there an explanation in his book for why he was essentially crap, and is now God on a bike?

Bike handlling

 

[ChrisE]

In 2008, Chris rode the Tour de France but finished 2:22 behind the winner. He has a world beating VO2max, yet he's nowhere. Giro de Capo might mean something to you, but 23 year olds win the white jersey at the Tour. In 2008 it was Andy Schleck and he finished about 12 minutes back.

Can you shed some light on why Chris was apparently very ordinary? And yet 3 years later almost wins the Vuelta?

Dr Steve Peters is quoted by David Walsh as saying Chris' blood parameters were the same pre and post 2011 Vuelta, Michelle.

I am curious how this can be misquoted or misconstrued, and how it lines up with the effects of the Bilzharia Chris had. Surely the Bilzharia was impacting on his blood (Hgb at least) to cause him to basically be a groupetto rider.

I for one cannot accept that tactics and I don't even remember the other thing, sorry, but that they alone were the difference.

Is there an explanation in his book for why he was essentially crap, and is now God on a bike?

Hey, I can't explain any of that stuff. I added my contribution to Skybot reality 101 in your evidence vs proof thread, so I have done my part. You guys have this other stuff covered.

I am just suggesting that you lay off because she is a hottie. You guys did the same thing to Kristen Armstrong and Sheryl Crow, who are also hotties that were blinded by love. When does the blood lust subside, DW?

 

[The Hitch]

tsk tsk. Think with the other brain now

In 2008, Chris rode the Tour de France but finished 2:22 behind the winner.

TBF, 2.22 behind the leader in the 08 tour isn't that bad to be honest. I can totally believe someone who finished there age 23 could one day win a Tour de France. Don't know about maintaining a 6 month peak without getting tired and then dominating it like Indurain, but winning a TDF, yes possible.

edit: I thought 2.22 meant 2 minutes 22 seconds.

2 hours 22 seconds? Good god no.

 

[badboygolf16v]

Hi Michelle

Thanks for engaging with the debate. I wondered if you knew the details of Chris' engagement with Dr Leinders? What treatment, if any, did he receive?

Thanks

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

lol, the giro del what now? Was there even a world top 200 rider in that race?

Btw if he didn't win the overall he wasn't a level above the rest was he?

2007:
Andy Schleck was 2nd in the Giro at that time
Nibali winning Italian semi-classics left and right, 41st on CQRanking
Kreuziger finished 21st in the Vuelta, 2nd in Paris-Nice prologue etc
Mollema won l'Avenir
Fuglsang 2nd in GP Tell
Pierre Rolland finished 2nd in La Tropicale, 2nd in Tour du Doubs, 4'30" ahead of Froome
Coppel won Circuit des Ardennes, 3rd in GP Tell, 3rd in Worlds ITT
Gesink was 3rd in Deutschland Tour queen stage a.o.

All of them are the same age as Froome or younger
How on earth did he surpass all of them by such a large margin?

 

[Granville57]

I am just suggesting that you lay off because she is a hottie. You guys did the same thing to Kristen Armstrong and Sheryl Crow, who are also hotties that were blinded by love. When does the blood lust subside, DW?

Well that's the funny part. If this is really Michelle, all she has to do is say, "Hey losers, I'm hot, and my boyfriend won the Tour de France. That's makes us both pretty damn lucky. Have fun behind your computers!"

But instead she jumps into the playground and tries to throw sand in our eyes.

Like I've always said about JV. He should've played his own hand in the same way. "My team won the Giro and Paris-f'ckin-Roubaix. Who are you and what have you done in cycling?" But instead he tried to insult BroDeals avatar. LOL

 

[ChrisE]

Well that's the funny part. If this is really Michelle, all she has to do is say, "Hey losers, I'm hot, and my boyfriend won the Tour de France. That's makes us both pretty damn lucky. Have fun behind your computers!"

But instead she jumps into the playground and tries to throw sand in our eyes.

Like I've always said about JV. He should've played his own hand in the same way. "My team won the Giro and Paris-f'ckin-Roubaix. Who are you and what have you done in cycling?" But instead he tried to insult BroDeals avatar. LOL

Good point. If I was in the sport I would STFU, and definitely not post in here. Nothing good can come of it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hey, I can't explain any of that stuff. I added my contribution to Skybot reality 101 in your evidence vs proof thread, so I have done my part. You guys have this other stuff covered.

I am just suggesting that you lay off because she is a hottie. You guys did the same thing to Kristen Armstrong and Sheryl Crow, who are also hotties that were blinded by love. When does the blood lust subside, DW?

Yeah sorry my queries were directed to Miss Cound and I deleted your quote to clarify my intent. Your Skybot 101 contributions were appreciated - your communication of inductive reasoning or its lack in certain posters was making me a bit jelly, given my intuitive nature that struggles communicating internalised processes at times. Thumbs up.

As for hot chicks: it's been my experience that the hot looking ones are not necessarily the best value where it counts, if you catch my drift.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

TBF, 2.22 behind the leader in the 08 tour isn't that bad to be honest. I can totally believe someone who finished there age 23 could one day win a Tour de France. Don't know about maintaining a 6 month peak without getting tired and then dominating it like Indurain, but winning a TDF, yes possible.

edit: I thought 2.22 meant 2 minutes 22 seconds.

2 hours 22 seconds? Good god no.

Yeah sorry I added in the seconds now to clarify. Would agree fully that 2 minutes back is sweet FA. 2 hours 22? Meh.

 

[thirteen]

Hey, I can't explain any of that stuff. I added my contribution to Skybot reality 101 in your evidence vs proof thread, so I have done my part. You guys have this other stuff covered.

I am just suggesting that you lay off because she is a hottie. You guys did the same thing to Kristen Armstrong and Sheryl Crow, who are also hotties that were blinded by love. When does the blood lust subside, DW?

ChrisE, always the gentleman

 

[The Hitch]

2007:
Andy Schleck was 2nd in the Giro at that time
Nibali winning Italian semi-classics left and right, 41st on CQRanking
Kreuziger finished 21st in the Vuelta, 2nd in Paris-Nice prologue etc
Mollema won l'Avenir
Fuglsang 2nd in GP Tell
Pierre Rolland finished 2nd in La Tropicale, 2nd in Tour du Doubs, 4'30" ahead of Froome
Coppel won Circuit des Ardennes, 3rd in GP Tell, 3rd in Worlds ITT
Gesink was 3rd in Deutschland Tour queen stage a.o.

All of them are the same age as Froome or younger
How on earth did he surpass all of them by such a large margin?

Even in July 2011.

Andy Schleck was 2nd in the Tour.
Nibali was podium of Giro and defending Vuelta champion.
Kreuziger won best young riders jersey at the Giro
Mollema 11th in giro the year before.
Fuglsang had come 3rd in Suisse, 4th in Lombarida and AGR
Rolland had just won Alpe d huez
Coppel had been 5th in Dauphine
Gesink had crashed out of the TDF as a top 5 favourite having been 6th the previous year.

Chris Froome's career acheivement was still having won a young riders jersey in an extremely small race in South Africa, and he was about to lose his spot in a wt team.

we all know what happens next

 

[ChrisE]

ChrisE, always the gentleman

Speaking of hotties, long time no hear from 13! You still haven't sent me those pix.

So, Froome's GF, partner, bed buddy, whatever comes in here trying to get along, and she gets dog piled by hitch and DW, and even a mod afrank is piling on. Chivalry has lost its mojo, apparently.

 

[the sceptic]

we all know what happens next

He falls in love with Michelle and starts believing in himself?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Speaking of hotties, long time no hear from 13! You still haven't sent me those pix.

So, Froome's GF, partner, bed buddy, whatever comes in here trying to get along, and she gets dog piled by hitch and DW, and even a mod afrank is piling on. Chivalry has lost its mojo, apparently.

Au contraire! I am asking for clarification and some understanding. You're being a little overly sensitive, methinks.

 

[ChrisE]

Au contraire! I am asking for clarification and some understanding. You're being a little overly sensitive, methinks.

I dunno. Anyway, in honor of her presence I have changed my avatar back to one of my original ones from way back, just to put some perspective on what you guys are doing here with MishC. IOW, it could be worse.

 

[thrawn]

http://youtu.be/1bKuqFBrE9o?t=10m44s Seems it was due to the UCI passport that he found out he had it. I thought is brother had it and told him to get checked out?

I'm aware that Sky probably wont release Chris' data prior the 2011 Vuelta. Couldn't he ask the UCI to release the stuff they have from when he was at the UCI school?

Don't be silly. That's just journalists and clinic members misrepresenting what he's said.

 

[BYOP88]

Don't be silly. That's just journalists and clinic members misrepresenting what he's said.

My bad......

 

[Benotti69]

Again this is for Sky - they don't 'do VO2 max testing, they have explained why but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

Power data belongs to Sky

I don't give a **** what the riders of the past did. Chris and I certainly had nothing to do with that. Sorry, but that doesn't give you reason to treat us with disrespect.

LeMond is the one that believes a consistent VO2 max is indicative of a clean performance, no?

Brailsford said they would test Froome as soon as they got him in the lab! Most riders do lab work over the winter.

Was Froome happy that a guy like Grappe analysed his data considering Grappe got it so wrong on Armstrong in 2002?

You dont care about other riders but then give LeMond as an example. Contradiction!

Froome wants people to believe he is clean, well then he has give all of his the data he can give. We dont want to hear it is Sky's property, we want to hear Froome telling Sky to release his data!

What about Barloworld data, Froome can release that. Team no longer exists.

 

[BYOP88]

Brailsford said they would test Froome as soon as they got him in the lab! Most riders do lab work over the winter.

Was Froome happy that a guy like Grappe analysed his data considering Grappe got it so wrong on Armstrong in 2002?

You dont care about other riders but then give LeMond as an example. Contradiction!

Froome wants people to believe he is clean, well then he has give all of his the data he can give. We dont want to hear it is Sky's property, we want to hear Froome telling Sky to release his data!

What about Barloworld data, Froome can release that. Team no longer exists.

Throw in the UCI data too

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Just give 'us the people' the powerfile on San Luca. While you are at it, throw in the Mortirolo motor pace file.

Good job on the NOS piece BYOPP, must have been a bad translation.