Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Dear Wiggo]

We have been there before... I know, Sky/Froome came to shock the world, so CH had to go back in time to win the ToC at age 39 as revenge... Only problem with your theory: There was no Sky/Froome when CH damaged the trust of cycling fans once again, and for all back in May 2011.

If only Chris could do something to prove he is clean.

I KNOW!!!

What if Chris released all his blood profile info - would that convince you!?

No. Clearly not. More projection from you in this thread then, when you claim releasing data would not prove anything. tsk tsk. Physician, heal thyself.

More balls than Sky and Froome though, and we know from Dr Steve Peters that Froome's profile is steady as she goes, right? I mean Walsh himself quotes the fine Dr in print saying as much.

 

[hrotha]

WTF... names? Since 2010? Cobo up and down and out, up again, gone again, Lagutin T-10, gone, PVelits up and gone, Mosq... blabla.
Pleased? If not... anyway, I like to hack away on my favo Chris Horner. The most obvious doper there is. No tiny doubt about that. Unexplainable to even consider he might have doing it clean, cleanish or in grey area, in his ToC win and Vuelta win...

And yet none of those (obvious dopers, most of them) have won the Tour or ended up as the world's #1 rider. How are their transformations bigger or worse than Froome's?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

By releasing a select portion of the data, and lets face it the portion that shows their guy to be a world beater and no data when he was "a holding onto cars on climbs" rider. Isn't really going to quieten down those people wanting answers, it's just going to make these people louder.

I agree on that. But the same would happen if they release more data (pre-Spt-2011). So they realized it makes no sense, so they stopped it I guess.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

And yet none of those (obvious dopers, most of them) have won the Tour or ended up as the world's #1 rider. How are their transformations bigger or worse than Froome's?

The stark up and downs always look more suspicious than riders who constantly perform...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And yet none of those (obvious dopers, most of them) have won the Tour or ended up as the world's #1 rider. How are their transformations bigger or worse than Froome's?

Also, how the hell is Mosquera considered a "since 2010" transformation, when the "transformation" came in 2007 and he'd been top 10 in nearly every short stage race in Spain at some point from 2004 to 2007 as well?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If only Chris could do something to prove he is clean.

I KNOW!!!

What if Chris released all his blood profile info - would that convince you!?

No. Clearly not. More projection from you in this thread then, when you claim releasing data would not prove anything. tsk tsk. Physician, heal thyself.

More balls than Sky and Froome though, and we know from Dr Steve Peters that Froome's profile is steady as she goes, right? I mean Walsh himself quotes the fine Dr in print saying as much.

Applause! You got it finally...
Indeed I don´t need data to see CH is dirty as possible. Common sense, expierience, circumstancial evidence already available does that for me.
And I think the same is true with those doubting Froome. So why are they asking for data still? That was my original post. Since then: The usual drifting away and going in circles. I didn´t even need to bring up CH, others did it for me (thanks Hitch )

 

[Hugh Januss]

Pleased? If not... anyway, I like to hack away on my favo Chris Horner. The most obvious doper there is. No tiny doubt about that. Unexplainable to even consider he might have doing it clean, cleanish or in grey area, in his ToC win and Vuelta win...

I get such a kick out of you guys who think that you can discern some sort of difference between Horner and Contador and Froome and Wigans, and on and on. Horner and Contador are terrible dopers while Froome is innocent until proven guilty. Oh please, do you guys ever stop to listen to what comes out of your mouths.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Also, how the hell is Mosquera considered a "since 2010" transformation, when the "transformation" came in 2007 and he'd been top 10 in nearly every short stage race in Spain at some point from 2004 to 2007 as well?

Your point... My mistake...
Pinotti also don´t count, right?... since we are back in the hair splitting game

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Applause! You got it finally...
Indeed I don´t need data to see CH is dirty as possible. Common sense, expierience, circumstancial evidence already available does that for me.
And I think the same is true with those doubting Froome. So why are they asking for data still? That was my original post. Since then: The usual drifting away and going in circles. I didn´t even need to bring up CH, others did it for me (thanks Hitch )

Projecting your own hate of a rider and distrust of his publicly available BP data does not a cogent argument make.

If Froome's BP data looked like Horner's, would that prove Horner was clean, or Froome was dirty?

 

[pastronef]

But in the real world, Froome/sky have done a lot more damage to cycling than Horner.

care to explain?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I get such a kick out of you guys who think that you can discern some sort of difference...

I not only think, I can... I start with the most obvious (age) and then go to more details (CH interviews, what JV said about his BP, his omerta tactics vs Hincy, his doubtful blood profiles, his riding on one leg, his non-performances that led to his firing of a 2nd tier team, his dubious past with doping teams, etc, etc)...
There is no such things with Froome. All we have with him is an explosion at an relative young age after an unusal career path... since then, constant performances. As I always repeat: Night and day differences between the grandpa and Froome.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Projecting your own hate of a rider and distrust of his publicly available BP data does not a cogent argument make.

If Froome's BP data looked like Horner's, would that prove Horner was clean, or Froome was dirty?

I don´t ask for files of Froome. So I don´t get your point. I was asking why people who made up their mind anyway still ask for more Froome data...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I don´t ask for files of Froome. So I don´t get your point. I was asking why people who made up their mind anyway still ask for more Froome data...

Are you afraid to answer the question?

And you are not asking questions at all - I thought we established you are simply projecting your hate of Horner and distrust in his publicly available BP data.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I not only think, I can... I start with the most obvious (age) and then go to more details (CH interviews, what JV said about his BP, his omerta tactics vs Hincy, his doubtful blood profiles, his riding on one leg, etc, etc)...
There is no such things with Froome. All we have with him is an explosion at an relative young age after an unusal career path... since then, constant performances. As I always repeat: Night and day differences between the grandpa and Froome.

More of a giant and completely inexplicable leap from packmeat to superstar, at the same time as all those around him on his team were exhibiting the same sort of quantum leap in fitness even including old dogs like Rogers (who, shades of US Postal, fails a test after changing teams). If any one performance screams Got a New Drug, it is Froome's. And what has happened to the team that couldn't lose this year? Did they all stop warming down and bringing their own pillows?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Are you afraid to answer the question?

And you are not asking questions at all - I thought we established you are simply projecting your hate of Horner and distrust in his publicly available BP data.

No. I always answer your questions my dear friend.
If I get files from Froome pre 2011 it wouldn´t change anything for me. 1st; I am no expert in reading such things. 2nd; I still would not know if he dopes, does it cleanish, or if Sky operates in legal but shady areas...

I am not "protecting" my hate for CH (whatever you mean with that...).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

No. I always answer your questions my dear friend.
If I get files from Froome pre 2011 it wouldn´t change anything for me. 1st; I am no expert in reading such things. 2nd; I still would not know if he dopes, does it cleanish, or if Sky operates in legal but shady areas...

So if Froome's BP files were EXACTLY the same as Horners, it would not change your mind. Froome would still be clean and Horner dirty.

Wow.

Even without knowing anything about blood work, you can look at two apples and see they are the same fruit. Then decide if that fruit is dirty or clean.

Incroyable.

I am not "protecting" my hate for CH (whatever you mean with that...).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

More of a giant and completely inexplicable leap from packmeat to superstar, at the same time as all those around him on his team were exhibiting the same sort of quantum leap in fitness even including old dogs like Rogers (who, shades of US Postal, fails a test after changing teams). If any one performance screams Got a New Drug, it is Froome's. And what has happened to the team that couldn't lose this year? Did they all stop warming down and bringing their own pillows?

While I clearly understand the points about Froome and especially Wiggins (who transformed while with the registered TM clean team)... I never get the myth about (almost) all riders completely tranforming once they joined SKY. I debunked it circa 1 year ago. I don´t wanna repeat, b/c those long detailed posts simply consume too much of my time. May you go "adv search; Sky Kiryienka Foxxy" and find my post that no single rider other than Froome had a big jump in performance after joining Sky. No one...

 

[ferryman]

More of a giant and completely inexplicable leap from packmeat to superstar, at the same time as all those around him on his team were exhibiting the same sort of quantum leap in fitness even including old dogs like Rogers (who, shades of US Postal, fails a test after changing teams). If any one performance screams Got a New Drug, it is Froome's. And what has happened to the team that couldn't lose this year? Did they all stop warming down and bringing their own pillows?

I'm afraid they are licking their wounds in the Canaries and waiting for July. Wiggins being sacrificed in his ridiculous pursuit of cobbled glory.

 

[ChrisE]

....
You know the most disappointing part of this entire coverup? Not that they won’t measure and publish his V02max; not that they won’t publish his power values pre-2011; not that they won’t publish his weight during these time periods. It’s that they won’t even admit that there is a problem to address. If Froome is really clean, they should be publishing all the data they can, shouting from the rooftops that a huge increase in performance is possible without doping.

....

Why?

Why should he publish anything outside what is required by procedures stipulated by the sport? Not publishing his data has zero impact on his bottom line. It just gives the clinic a rash, but I am sure he doesn't give a ****.

I made the same argument inre to LA or any team publishing rider data. There is no incentive to do that. Even if I was a clean rider, I wouldn't publish my data. Why do something beyond what you are required to do if there is no benefit?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I find the coincidence between some new tests implemented over the Winter that lead to Henao's benching and Sky's apparent fall from the heavens interesting.

July et al could prove it wrong, but so far there seems more than a few Sky members who forgot to wash their hands properly...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So if Froome's BP files were EXACTLY the same as Horners, it would not change your mind. Froome would still be clean and Horner dirty.

Can´t be excactly the same...
When did I say that I am sure Froome is clean? That myth gets repeated every now and then, but nobody ever showed me a post of mine when I alledgetly said this...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Can´t be excactly the same...
When did I say that I am sure Froome is clean? That myth gets repeated every now and then, but nobody ever showed me a post of mine when I alledgetly said this...

Person X, Y & Z say Rider #1 is dirty.

Person C always argues against Person X, Y, Z, never ever conceding any points made by Person X, Y, Z.

Person C then says, "I didn't say Rider #1 was clean". Or, "I am not convinced either way".

That's pretty much the pattern.

You might claim to not think he's clean, but you post nothing to the contrary.

And not sure if you're being disingenuous, but as a thought experiment, if their data followed exactly the same pattern (pedantry displayed reaching critical mass) would you still claim that one is dirty and one clean?

 

[Hugh Januss]

While I clearly understand the points about Froome and especially Wiggins (who transformed while with the registered TM clean team)... I never get the myth about (almost) all riders completely tranforming once they joined SKY. I debunked it circa 1 year ago. I don´t wanna repeat, b/c those long detailed posts simply consume too much of my time. May you go "adv search; Sky Kiryienka Foxxy" and find my post that no single rider other than Froome had a big jump in performance after joining Sky. No one...

I remember you claiming that, not sure I'd go so far as to say you "debunked" anything (other than maybe in your own mind?). The entire team had career seasons all at once. Rogers somehow managed to ride stronger than his earlier doped version.

 

[The Hitch]

Your point... My mistake...
Pinotti also don´t count, right?... since we are back in the hair splitting game

Why the **** would Pinotti count

 

[ChrisE]

He's just trying to keep things honest, DW. You better have your facts in order when you roll into foxybrown about Froome.

He hasn't posted in 15 mins after spamming this thread for the past hour. No worries, he is just searching youtube for some material.