Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Netserk]

He also thinks MarkW pointing out the legal difficulties of a criminal prosecution of Armstrong is trolling. Sounds like RR has been complaining again.

I don't know why I bothered to post again to this poorly moderated dooshetarium.

Tbh atm it's only Berzin who is truly ridiculous. I still don't get why he isn't demoted.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Not overnight, 4 weeks.

Don't underplay the increase in performance, it's massive. 250mg/wk of test will have you not even recognising yourself 4 weeks later because your blood will be going bananas.

I think you guys underplay the 'marginal gains'. The Clinic acuses so many riders of doping that i think for Froome you are heading down the road of saying he is on transfusions but i seriously doubt cycling has gone back there.

If Contador was on the SKY team, Froome would be riding second seat for him. I think SKY have incredible skill to make the most out of 'marginal gains'.

Trouble is how long can your blood go bananas ? surely the body will become immune to the effects ? froomes blood has been bananas for 2 years now.

 

[Benotti69]

Off topic? If it was it in a Froome thread then it's on topic. btw I see she has changed her username on that site so get in quick on google or bing cache if you want screen shots.

Miss Cound now goes as 'ZYX' on that site for those interested.

http://www.thehubsa.co.za/

Considering how Miss Cound is to be Mrs Froome and takes an active part in her Groom's career i dont see how it was off topic as it was cycling related.

 

[red_flanders]

Not overnight, 4 weeks.

Don't underplay the increase in performance, it's massive. 250mg/wk of test will have you not even recognising yourself 4 weeks later because your blood will be going bananas.

I think you guys underplay the 'marginal gains'. The Clinic acuses so many riders of doping that i think for Froome you are heading down the road of saying he is on transfusions but i seriously doubt cycling has gone back there.

If Contador was on the SKY team, Froome would be riding second seat for him. I think SKY have incredible skill to make the most out of 'marginal gains'.

I've had those thoughts as well, but I can't reconcile it with him matching the times of people we know were on blood doping, who had much, much more evident talent to begin with.

I have no way to quantify it, but I find it hard to believe that testosterone alone, which all those guys were (also) using, is allowing Froome to match the times of hardcore cocktail dopers like Armstrong et. al.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Miss Cound now goes as 'ZYX' on that site for those interested.

http://www.thehubsa.co.za/

Considering how Miss Cound is to be Mrs Froome and takes an active part in her Groom's career i dont see how it was off topic as it was cycling related.

I knew she would act quickly! Surprised she hasn't deleted it all. I still have the screenshot

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

I knew she would act quickly! Surprised she hasn't deleted it all. I still have the screenshot

Exactly. What's the point of deleting some but not all? If you go further down the thread you can see she wanted to buy a jersey of Lance plus some in there mention her by her name Michelle and she last posted stuff there about Chris Froome! She ain't fooling no one, not even my grandma

 

[Tinman]

I find it hard to believe that testosterone alone, which all those guys were (also) using, is allowing Froome to match the times of hardcore cocktail dopers like Armstrong et. al.

It doesn't. The new doping paradigm:
- use EPO microdosing or EPO precursor stimulants
-use CATABOLIC steroids (prednisone) in training (out of competition - legal) to aid recovery, train harder, loose weight faster and build power/weight ratio
- any other marginal gain not yet confirmed (Aicar type, etc)

Testosterone, nandrolone, etc and all bodybuilding steroids are ANABOLIC, ie they build muscle.

Asthma drugs and prednisone are CATABOLIC. Asthma drugs very specifically relax bronchial smooth muscle (and raise heart rate), prednisone reduces inflammatory pathways, and is MUCH MORE general and powerful in its effects. Prednisone may also have short term effects on blood parameters, eg haematocrit.

All three types have their specific places but should not be confused.

 

[Kicker661]

I have no way to quantify it, but I find it hard to believe that testosterone alone

It isn't.

Test will raise H count 4-5 points.

It's a poor man's EPO that your club guys will use because it's dirt cheap v EPO.

I would be surprised if pros decided to use more than 100mg/week test. They won't get big off it anyway as those guys aren't in the gym belting weights. You don't take test, smash out 1000km/wk on the bike and get huge lol. Pros say things like that so the average punters think they would never touch it.

It'll be the micro-dosing of EPO that is relied on. However you don't just take something and instantly win. It might get to you the front 10 guys but what then separates them becomes genetics, training, diet, rest.

The answer isn't the guy who wins dopes the most.

 

[red_flanders]

It isn't.

Test will raise H count 4-5 points.

It's a poor man's EPO that your club guys will use because it's dirt cheap v EPO.

I would be surprised if pros decided to use more than 100mg/week test. They won't get big off it anyway as those guys aren't in the gym belting weights. You don't take test, smash out 1000km/wk on the bike and get huge lol. Pros say things like that so the average punters think they would never touch it.

It'll be the micro-dosing of EPO that is relied on. However you don't just take something and instantly win. It might get to you the front 10 guys but what then separates them becomes genetics, training, diet, rest.

The answer isn't the guy who wins dopes the most.

Thanks, good post. The other thing is that you have no idea who will respond better to the drugs. It ain't all training either.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It isn't.

Test will raise H count 4-5 points.

You mean Hct % yeah? eg: 42 to 47%?

Do you have links to read where this is discussed? Am particularly interested in studies.

 

[Kicker661]

You mean Hct % yeah? eg: 42 to 47%?

Do you have links to read where this is discussed? Am particularly interested in studies.

Yes. No links as it was a closed discussion group. You PM'd me a while ago and i told you about the altitude tent results etc.

There is nothing secret about it. I think because bodybuilders post so much about the muscle side people ignore most of the benefits of the drugs they take are blood/oxygen related. Dunno about now but pros used to take Deca because of the joint benefts.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes. No links as it was a closed discussion group. You PM'd me a while ago and i told you about the altitude tent results etc.

There is nothing secret about it. I think because bodybuilders post so much about the muscle side people ignore most of the benefits of the drugs they take are blood/oxygen related. Dunno about now but pros used to take Deca because of the joint benefts.

Oh I know test increases Hgb, but was curious re: links to studies showing the % increase.

Thought it was interesting when AIS trawled their data around 1996 when the UCI were introducing the 50% Hct rule. Guys from AIS were saying it's unfair, coz some of the cyclists had 52% Hct "natural", 25% of their body builders had 50+% Hct and yet strangely only 2% of netballers.

Ok maybe not interesting. More of a WTF!? moment. Like. Do they not know test boosts Hgb!?

Particularly given the list of people who put their names to the study, and where they are now...

 

[Tinman]

Test will raise H count 4-5 points.

That also confers weight to the hypothesis that short term catabolics such as prednisone decrease (temporarily) Hct, ie can act as masking agent if EPO doping pushes Hct levels too high.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That also confers weight to the hypothesis that short term catabolics such as prednisone decrease (temporarily) Hct, ie can act as masking agent if EPO doping pushes Hct levels too high.

I don't think the effect occurs quick enough to be of benefit / use.

 

[Will Carter]

That also confers weight to the hypothesis that short term catabolics such as prednisone decrease (temporarily) Hct, ie can act as masking agent if EPO doping pushes Hct levels too high.

Unlikely - its used to treat diseases that cause red blood cell destruction (such as auto immune conditions) thereby increasing the lovely red bits.

 

[Tinman]

Unlikely - its used to treat diseases that cause red blood cell destruction (such as auto immune conditions) thereby increasing the lovely red bits.

Yes but my understanding is that that is different. In autoimmune disease the causal factors/pathways are different leading to different outcomes. But I agree with DW that the timespan required for an effect is likely too long for a short masking benefit.

 

[Will Carter]

Yes but my understanding is that that is different. In autoimmune disease the causal factors/pathways are different leading to different outcomes. But I agree with DW that the timespan required for an effect is likely too long for a short masking benefit.

Used to treat Anemia by increasing red blood cells

http://pulse.wi.mit.edu/2011/01/research/72

I read somewhere this morning (lost link already!) that all steroids stimulate bone marrow and therefore red blood cell production.

 

[zalacain]

Today in JDD http://www.lejdd.fr/Sport/Cyclisme/Affaire-Froome-l-UCI-n-a-pas-respecte-les-regles-672667

 

[Benotti69]

Today in JDD http://www.lejdd.fr/Sport/Cyclisme/Affaire-Froome-l-UCI-n-a-pas-respecte-les-regles-672667

this is interesting

...the UCI has no particular committee of international experts assumed grant AUT (CAUT), as yet dictate the rules of the World Anti-Doping Agency since always! It is the sole responsibility and Dr Mario Zorzoli, the coordinator of the medical commission of the UCI to grant these permissions may be - as in the case of Froome - aid to performance. The AMA has asked the UCI to remedy this failure....

So Dr Zorzoli granted the TUE, so the UCI is business as usual.

 

[the sceptic]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/06/f...hasnt-followed-wadas-rules-over-tue-approval/

eanwhile the same newspaper also reported Sunday that the banned doping agent AICAR is finally detectable, five years after it was banned in 2009.

The substance causes the body to shed weight and also boosts endurance. It had been difficult to identify prior to this point as tests had to distinguish between natural levels and those introduced artificially.

According to the Journal du Dimanche, the distinction is now possible to be made due to IRMS evaluation. The process has long been used in differentiating between naturally occurring and artificial testosterone, and was employed in the Floyd Landis case.

Swiss doping laboratory director Martial Saugy told the French newspaper that ‘the detection method is robust and will be completed very quickly.’

It is indicated that the test could be used on this year’s Tour de France, and also that last year’s samples may also be retroactively examined.

Froome back to the gruppetto with Henderson?

 

[msjett]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/06/f...hasnt-followed-wadas-rules-over-tue-approval/


Froome back to the gruppetto with Henderson?

Got a feeling he won't be the only one going back to grupetto...but hey he won't just have Henderson for company, Wiggo will be there too lol

 

[Kicker661]

I don't think the effect occurs quick enough to be of benefit / use.

Can front load EPO for 5 days and get blood up then pull back to maintain.

Front loading test gets the hormones up quick but blood still takes 3-4 weeks.

Clearance would be quicker/easier with EPO. I don't think a rider would want to use a fast acting test like Prop as the injection site feels like it's been hit with a hammer the next day.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Can front load EPO for 5 days and get blood up then pull back to maintain.

Front loading test gets the hormones up quick but blood still takes 3-4 weeks.

Clearance would be quicker/easier with EPO. I don't think a rider would want to use a fast acting test like Prop as the injection site feels like it's been hit with a hammer the next day.

Whislt your information is interesting, I am not sure why you have quoted my post?

 

[blackcat]

the three riders who look ridiculous


wiggins
froome
hesjedal

 

[Tinman]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/06/f...hasnt-followed-wadas-rules-over-tue-approval/


Froome back to the gruppetto with Henderson?

More likely out of the groupetto and the peloton all together if he's been that stupid. Blind Freddy could see a retrospective AICAR coming.

More to the point, how many others will be busted and is UCI that brave? It would certainly send a statement on retrospectives!

I for one don't think there will be many big names, Out of Competition Prednisone is just easier and (still) legal. If only we could control that long glow time into the comp a bit better. Thank God for our friend Zorzoli and his supportive TUE's...