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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Re: Re:

HiroAntagonist said:
Armchaircyclist said:
http://www.aftenposten.no/100Sport/sykkel/tourdefrance/Kaggestad-fnyser-av-omstridt-Froome-video---En-ren-konspirasjonsteori-568040_1.snd

Norwegian expert and TV2 commentator Kaggestad Calls the video of Froome's datas "pure conspiracy" and says that this is speculation by People who lack basic knowledge of physiology....

I wonder what he will say if the day comes and Froome joins Armstrong...
For me this ended the fun of watching this years tour, it's just too much With the alien.

With this in mind the next three spots do get more interesting though.

Kaggestad is a old shill though, praising Team Sky™ for the invention of tactics, nutrition and training, and always telling the tale of The Skeleton King rising through the ranks of Narobi with a mountainbike, and beeing the greatest talent even born, and that everyone else failed as a master tactician then Brailsford.

It's disgusting to hear him spew piss live everytime Sky is on the screen, and the worst part is. He aint even a good commentator, he never was during the last 12 years. The combo of Paasche and Stoltenberg or Stoltenberg and Dag Otto at the commentary booth would be much better and exciting to listen to, at least you would get a bit of objectivity.

And if he someday joins Armstrong. He will use the old but golden line. "It was obvious for everyone, but i just couldnt say it."
 
Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
Wait, so that number is completely subjective (basically pulled out of his ass and adjusted as he sees fit)? Damn, you actually got me intrigued a bit and I was about to do some research on those values and how he got them.

Tucker: "For 41 minutes, making some conservative assumptions (that is, weighted in favour the rider), that implies a VO2max over 90 ml/kg/min, but more likely mid-90s, because he’d need to be riding at a super high % of max for it to be any lower. Or he must be 25 to 26% efficient, something documented and disputed only once before. And of course, the combination of super high VO2max and high efficiency is, by definition, rare. Too many ifs and buts, however, so moving along…"

So yes, clearly just subjective.
 
Sep 25, 2012
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Re: Re:

markene2 said:
HiroAntagonist said:
Armchaircyclist said:
http://www.aftenposten.no/100Sport/sykkel/tourdefrance/Kaggestad-fnyser-av-omstridt-Froome-video---En-ren-konspirasjonsteori-568040_1.snd

Norwegian expert and TV2 commentator Kaggestad Calls the video of Froome's datas "pure conspiracy" and says that this is speculation by People who lack basic knowledge of physiology....

I wonder what he will say if the day comes and Froome joins Armstrong...
For me this ended the fun of watching this years tour, it's just too much With the alien.

With this in mind the next three spots do get more interesting though.

Kaggestad is a old shill though, praising Team Sky™ for the invention of tactics, nutrition and training, and always telling the tale of The Skeleton King rising through the ranks of Narobi with a mountainbike, and beeing the greatest talent even born, and that everyone else failed as a master tactician then Brailsford.

It's disgusting to hear him spew piss live everytime Sky is on the screen, and the worst part is. He aint even a good commentator, he never was during the last 12 years. The combo of Paasche and Stoltenberg or Stoltenberg and Dag Otto at the commentary booth would be much better and exciting to listen to, at least you would get a bit of objectivity.

And if he someday joins Armstrong. He will use the old but golden line. "It was obvious for everyone, but i just couldnt say it."

And Johan Kaggestad was at some point the personal trainer for both the world record holders Ingrid Kristiansen and Grete Waitz. Both quite in a class of their own in their time. Is he really this naive ? It's quite sad to hear him deny "Occhams razor" with this kind of passion.
 
Re: Re:

Taxus4a said:
ToreBear said:
Well done Froomey and sky, as well as movistar. As for people who say this is impossible. I'm sorry you think everything in the human body is a known and measured scientific quantity.

Ot is possible to measure andn take some conclusion, but they used methods that are notr cientific, used 15 years ago, with a lot of lacks...

They for instance talked about ventopux and dindt see videos of how wind was other years and how was in 2013.. 2013 was one of the years wind was more tailwiind at the end (was crosswind, what with corners sometimes tail, some time headwind...other years is always headwind...

if you compare numbers and you dont put a lot of thing intio consideration, that is wortless.
but a lot opf people get the conclusion they look for, and how is a lot of people and everything is agree, thet think they are agree.

But of course thay are wrong.

cheers!

Yep I agree. Usually it doesn't take some unknown feature of the body to explain things. Usually it's just a faulty premise that has snuck into the argument. But in my opinion, those who think they know everything are the ones that are least likely to find errors in their argumentation. They lack the curiosity to look seriously at other explanations.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

Anaconda said:
I'm blocked by JV, so can't paste link. But seems he's not a Froomatic anymore.

Race Radio retweeted
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 7m7 minutes ago
Well..... Hmmmmm... Not much to say.
57 retweets 53 favorites
Reply Retweet57 Favorite53 Follow
i'm blocked by vroome and prance. jodhpurs jonathan yet to block me

is that how you spell jodhpurs?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
LaFlorecita said:
Mr.38% said:
Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.
I just saw someone else mention it... he's becoming as much of a bully as Lance..
Much was made about the stealing rabbits from toddlers to feed to snakes thing when that emerged. And it was shocking how proud Froome is about that,more than his TDF wins it seems, and how totally unmoved he was both by the squeals of the baby rabbits and to see the toddlers upset about losing their pets. Remember pythons don't eat dead prey so its not like you kill the poor thing and feed it, instead its more like the victims in the Minotaur story, you release them into the maze and watch their terror as they await what they can't escape. And Froome always watched.

I've no delusions about how cruel the natural world is and how powerless humans are to stop it, but I strongly feel at best we should not interfere and physically feed smaller powerless creatures, babies at that, to infinitely more powerful predators, for no real reason. If anything, humans should try to minimize the animals pain not maximise it.

Strangely enough, many froome fans on here at the time turned to be very anti animal rights when this story came out, ridiculing those pathetic conspiracy theorists for reacting to it. Personally I cringe when I hear about such a cold blooded sacrifice and this emotion is infinately more powerful than anything Froome can ever make me experience by his riding.

Of course that was just the tip of the iceberg since Froome spent much of his younger life seeking out prey for his snakes, particularly looking for nests of mice so he could feed the entire families to the pythons. Quite sad when one considers the pythons were incapable of showing him any affection anyway. They just existed to exist.
And searching and catching the prey wasn't always just Froome but a family activity.

His self confessed obsession in his early teens was "butterflies". This sounds nice, but what he means by this is running around all day trying to catch them and squish them so he could pin them up on his wall. This was his last "passion" before cycling became his passion.

But in The Climb he also claims that when he was young his brothers would shoot bb gun pellets at a big Turkey they had for a laugh and watch the Turkey attack Froome who at that age was the same size. Then Froome did the same when he was older, only his victim (other than the Turkey) would be the daughter of his au pair (yes, thats right, bullying behaviour directed towards a young girl who is a few years younger than him). He would also "get revenge" on the Turkey by running up to it and scaring it then laughing as it got terrified.

In some ways you can't fully blame a child for being like that, since they might not know better, and clearly the environment he grew up in played a part ( i mean if one of your first memories of your older brothers is them shooting at a poor turkey for laughs, you can see how your surroundings might play a part). But in that case the parents and guardians have a lot to answer for.

Maybe its just me though. There is nothing I feel more strongly about then that no human should ever be cruel towards animals. Its the exact same thing as bullying. Trying to get some small greater satisfaction in your own life by tormenting someone who was born weaker than you, who has no chance to defend themselves and has done you no wrong.

Maybe the adult Froome is a nicer guy. I hope he is. He came off nice to me at first in the 2011 Vuelta and he hasn't really done anything particularly bad re picking on others within the peloton as far as I remember. Not like Wiggins or Lance.
Still when I see the word "bully" mentioned about him I can't help but think back to these stories, especially considering the fact that many bullies in adulthood are known to take it out on animals in their childhood.

Hitch, the rabbits thing, its not the truth. it is made up. its a fable. it is there to build a reputation and myth
 
Re: Re:

simoni said:
The Hitch said:
LaFlorecita said:
Mr.38% said:
Somebody who saw it on "Vive le vélo" may confirm.
I just saw someone else mention it... he's becoming as much of a bully as Lance..
Much was made about the stealing rabbits from toddlers to feed to snakes thing when that emerged. And it was shocking how proud Froome is about that,more than his TDF wins it seems, and how totally unmoved he was both by the squeals of the baby rabbits and to see the toddlers upset about losing their pets. Remember pythons don't eat dead prey so its not like you kill the poor thing and feed it, instead its more like the victims in the Minotaur story, you release them into the maze and watch their terror as they await what they can't escape. And Froome always watched.

I've no delusions about how cruel the natural world is and how powerless humans are to stop it, but I strongly feel at best we should not interfere and physically feed smaller powerless creatures, babies at that, to infinitely more powerful predators, for no real reason. If anything, humans should try to minimize the animals pain not maximise it.

Strangely enough, many froome fans on here at the time turned to be very anti animal rights when this story came out, ridiculing those pathetic conspiracy theorists for reacting to it. Personally I cringe when I hear about such a cold blooded sacrifice and this emotion is infinately more powerful than anything Froome can ever make me experience by his riding.

Of course that was just the tip of the iceberg since Froome spent much of his younger life seeking out prey for his snakes, particularly looking for nests of mice so he could feed the entire families to the pythons. Quite sad when one considers the pythons were incapable of showing him any affection anyway. They just existed to exist.
And searching and catching the prey wasn't always just Froome but a family activity.

His self confessed obsession in his early teens was "butterflies". This sounds nice, but what he means by this is running around all day trying to catch them and squish them so he could pin them up on his wall. This was his last "passion" before cycling became his passion.

But in The Climb he also claims that when he was young his brothers would shoot bb gun pellets at a big Turkey they had for a laugh and watch the Turkey attack Froome who at that age was the same size. Then Froome did the same when he was older, only his victim (other than the Turkey) would be the daughter of his au pair (yes, thats right, bullying behaviour directed towards a young girl who is a few years younger than him). He would also "get revenge" on the Turkey by running up to it and scaring it then laughing as it got terrified.

In some ways you can't fully blame a child for being like that, since they might not know better, and clearly the environment he grew up in played a part ( i mean if one of your first memories of your older brothers is them shooting at a poor turkey for laughs, you can see how your surroundings might play a part). But in that case the parents and guardians have a lot to answer for.

Maybe its just me though. There is nothing I feel more strongly about then that no human should ever be cruel towards animals. Its the exact same thing as bullying. Trying to get some small greater satisfaction in your own life by tormenting someone who was born weaker than you, who has no chance to defend themselves and has done you no wrong.

Maybe the adult Froome is a nicer guy. I hope he is. He came off nice to me at first in the 2011 Vuelta and he hasn't really done anything particularly bad re picking on others within the peloton as far as I remember. Not like Wiggins or Lance.
Still when I see the word "bully" mentioned about him I can't help but think back to these stories, especially considering the fact that many bullies in adulthood are known to take it out on animals in their childhood.

A perfectly valid alternative interpretation, of course, being that kids will be kids.
precisely the kind of disgraceful attitude I mentioned in my earlier post. A handful of internet defenders of froome who are willing to justify absolutely anything in order to win this internet battle. Where I grew up and went to school etc, taking out frustrations or having fun by tormenting animals, was unacceptable. I never had such sick thoughts to begin with. why on earth, even as a child would one be unmoved by the suffering of animals let alone facilitate it?
It's actually considered very worrying if a child behaves that way.

But: must, win, internet, battle.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

armchairclimber said:
Froome to undergo independent testing after the tour.... my he is sore.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/15/chris-froome-independent-testing-fight-doping-allegations

I hope the independent tester is someone like Ross Tucker. It won't prove him clean but it might explain some anomalies.

like the blood storage by paula radcliffe?

they dont catch anything if they never get to test nor never know what to test for.

this is a logic fallacy. it is PR and reputation management and perception management and a limited hangout of obfuscation and deflection. heck, i am sure i could get hold of some of flo jo's frozen blood. and i could make it come up negative. people will believe what they wish to believe. *yes, that is not solipsistic this is a non-hypocrisy rigour caveat'ed
 
Apr 7, 2015
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Re: Re:

[quote="blackcat
Hitch, the rabbits thing, its not the truth. it is made up. its a fable. it is there to build a reputation and myth[/quote]

Exactly. Little anecdotes twisted and distorted into a narrative. It is what journalist like Walsh do.
 
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Again, what is the goal of the testing? It's impossible to detect anything he doesn't want to be seen! Most substances have a very reduced half-life, they were probably used long ago and the blood stored, he already did the transfusion.

If they can't detect the substances, if they can't detect the plasticizers, if they can't detect anything at all... why do this? Any respectable lab can attest to it, so the only change they will play along is because of the money.

Authorities and ASO: If you actually want to stop this sky train-wreck thing, stop looking at their blood (with current rules...) and focus on strange transfers of money, on their bank accounts.
 
Re: Re:

ToreBear said:
Taxus4a said:
ToreBear said:
Well done Froomey and sky, as well as movistar. As for people who say this is impossible. I'm sorry you think everything in the human body is a known and measured scientific quantity.

Ot is possible to measure andn take some conclusion, but they used methods that are notr cientific, used 15 years ago, with a lot of lacks...

They for instance talked about ventopux and dindt see videos of how wind was other years and how was in 2013.. 2013 was one of the years wind was more tailwiind at the end (was crosswind, what with corners sometimes tail, some time headwind...other years is always headwind...

if you compare numbers and you dont put a lot of thing intio consideration, that is wortless.
but a lot opf people get the conclusion they look for, and how is a lot of people and everything is agree, thet think they are agree.

But of course thay are wrong.

cheers!

Yep I agree. Usually it doesn't take some unknown feature of the body to explain things. Usually it's just a faulty premise that has snuck into the argument. But in my opinion, those who think they know everything are the ones that are least likely to find errors in their argumentation. They lack the curiosity to look seriously at other explanations.

Lol go on then. What are the errors? Since you are so open minded you are in a perfect position to find them. Tell us.
 
Apr 7, 2015
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Re: Re:

blackcat said:
armchairclimber said:
Froome to undergo independent testing after the tour.... my he is sore.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/15/chris-froome-independent-testing-fight-doping-allegations

I hope the independent tester is someone like Ross Tucker. It won't prove him clean but it might explain some anomalies.

like the blood storage by paula radcliffe?

they dont catch anything if they never get to test nor never know what to test for.

this is a logic fallacy. it is PR and reputation management and perception management and a limited hangout of obfuscation and deflection. heck, i am sure i could get hold of some of flo jo's frozen blood. and i could make it come up negative. people will believe what they wish to believe. *yes, that is not solipsistic this is a non-hypocrisy rigour caveat'ed

Modern sports 'corporations' couldn't tell the truth even if the truth was beneficial to their cause. It's all bureaucracy and formulas. That is where Brailsford (and Cookson) comes in.
 
Apr 7, 2015
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ToreBear, there is a difference between being open-minded and being naive. There is also a difference between choosing to be naive and actually being naive. The former is disingenuous, neither is open-minded.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
precisely the kind of disgraceful attitude I mentioned in my earlier post. A handful of internet defenders of froome who are willing to justify absolutely anything in order to win this internet battle. Where I grew up and went to school etc, taking out frustrations or having fun by tormenting animals, was unacceptable. I never had such sick thoughts to begin with. why on earth, even as a child would one be unmoved by the suffering of animals let alone facilitate it?
It's actually considered very worrying if a child behaves that way.

But: must, win, internet, battle.
Interesting post about Froome. Traits of a sociopath.
 
Jul 5, 2011
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Watched the final climb with a growing sense of horror. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but can only feel scepticism. When the best riders in the world are made to look like schoolboys there has to be something wrong. I dont buy that the others were all off form. I believe only Merckx and Armstrong have ever made such a fool of their rivals.
The thing I noticed was at one point Froome seemed to go through a virtual crisis, he lost the wheel of Porte briefly, his line wavered quite badly, his face looked really pale. Kelly and Kirby were convinced he was about to get dropped, yet moments later he launched the most ferocious attack, almost barging Porte out of the way and swiftly engaging that high revving, seated, elbows out style. He moved into another gear in more ways than one.
I have no idea what he does at a time like that but it is very strange, even unnatural, a mental transition must be involved, more than just normal will power.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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Froome's fast even if he does ride like an extra-elbowed, hunchbacked turtle. How did he become the best climber of all-time since getting DQ from the Giro for holding onto a car and then getting blown away like an also-ran by the amazing all-time great Simon Gerrans on a steepish but short stage finish in the 09 Giro?

I just don't get Froome.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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Re:

rainman said:
Watched the final climb with a growing sense of horror. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but can only feel scepticism. When the best riders in the world are made to look like schoolboys there has to be something wrong. I dont buy that the others were all off form. I believe only Merckx and Armstrong have ever made such a fool of their rivals.
The thing I noticed was at one point Froome seemed to go through a virtual crisis, he lost the wheel of Porte briefly, his line wavered quite badly, his face looked really pale. Kelly and Kirby were convinced he was about to get dropped, yet moments later he launched the most ferocious attack, almost barging Porte out of the way and swiftly engaging that high revving, seated, elbows out style. He moved into another gear in more ways than one.
I have no idea what he does at a time like that but it is very strange, even unnatural, a mental transition must be involved, more than just normal will power.

This is how I feel. It's not merely ugly, it's odd. I'm starting to think Froome is an actual alien. Like the British Royal family, I think he morphs back into a reptile during sleep. Not a cute blue-tongue lizard, but a poisonous, dangerous, aggressive Komodo Dragon! It's the Froome-o-sauras! Kill it! Kill it now!!!
 
Nov 29, 2010
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Re:

rainman said:
The thing I noticed was at one point Froome seemed to go through a virtual crisis, he lost the wheel of Porte briefly, his line wavered quite badly, his face looked really pale. Kelly and Kirby were convinced he was about to get dropped, yet moments later he launched the most ferocious attack, almost barging Porte out of the way and swiftly engaging that high revving, seated, elbows out style.

Man he cons me every time. Froome genuinely looked terrible in the middle of the climb and I had the same opinion as Kelly and Kirby that he was going to get dropped.

I get fooled year after year, I need to learn. :D

So for future reference when Froome looks like he's seconds away from cracking he's about to launch the most monstrous attack known to man.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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Re: Re:

deValtos said:
rainman said:
The thing I noticed was at one point Froome seemed to go through a virtual crisis, he lost the wheel of Porte briefly, his line wavered quite badly, his face looked really pale. Kelly and Kirby were convinced he was about to get dropped, yet moments later he launched the most ferocious attack, almost barging Porte out of the way and swiftly engaging that high revving, seated, elbows out style.

Man he cons me every time. Froome genuinely looked terrible in the middle of the climb and I had the same opinion as Kelly and Kirby that he was going to get dropped.

I get fooled year after year, I need to learn. :D

So for future reference when Froome looks like he's seconds away from cracking he's about to launch the most monstrous attack known to man.

This one's especially for you, bud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htz9CS-Zmms
 

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