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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Alpe73 said:
red_flanders said:
Alpe73 said:
MartinGT said:
I was chatting with a friend last night. I've not seen him for a while and he brought up the Froome thing. He seriously believes he and sky are clean. He's only just getting into cycling and he quoted some things that Brailsfraud has said in the past.

This is what sky and the Dawg are aiming their BS to. The 'standard' British public who have almost no interest in day to day racing. The ones who like a bit of the TDF especially when in this county and watch the Olympics or some track when it's on the Beeb.

I feel with comments now coming from more and more pro riders past and present the net is closing in on the BS

Oh, I see, Martin ... the 'standard' British public must be rescued from SKY FRAUD by the savants on the Clinic, you know, the 'genuine' cycling fans with a Dura Ace, Geant de Provence or a pave(y) stone logo beaming out of their arseholes.

Open up the windows and get some fresh air, FFS. Breathe .... Nothing needs to be rescued. You've been scammed, bro ... and not by the Dawg or Sky.

He certainly hasn't been scammed by Sky or Froome. Nor has most of the cycling public. But he's entirely right about who the PR nonsense is aimed at.

Well, some of the 'standard' fans and I are going to sit down at my place and watch the Giro on the big screen. I hope Froome is there (but won't bat an eye, if he's not) because it might be a good TD-CF showdown. I'll put on some food and beers and laughs. You and Martin are quite welcome to join, if you like. If not, feel free to boycott the event outside my place. If it's chilly, we'll bring out some hot coffee, periodically. Entirely up to you, my friend.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that some subset of Brits actually believe he's clean and that's who Sky's PR is aimed at, but I guess changing the subject is the point of your commentary.

But yeah, I'll watch the Giro as I always do. 5 am is a bit early for beers, but I'll have some coffee and have it on while I work. I've been watching doped cyclists race since about 1975 so it won't be any news to me. They used to, however, have the courtesy not to insult our collective intelligence. I very much preferred that approach.
 
red_flanders said:
Alpe73 said:
red_flanders said:
Alpe73 said:
MartinGT said:
I was chatting with a friend last night. I've not seen him for a while and he brought up the Froome thing. He seriously believes he and sky are clean. He's only just getting into cycling and he quoted some things that Brailsfraud has said in the past.

This is what sky and the Dawg are aiming their BS to. The 'standard' British public who have almost no interest in day to day racing. The ones who like a bit of the TDF especially when in this county and watch the Olympics or some track when it's on the Beeb.

I feel with comments now coming from more and more pro riders past and present the net is closing in on the BS

Oh, I see, Martin ... the 'standard' British public must be rescued from SKY FRAUD by the savants on the Clinic, you know, the 'genuine' cycling fans with a Dura Ace, Geant de Provence or a pave(y) stone logo beaming out of their arseholes.

Open up the windows and get some fresh air, FFS. Breathe .... Nothing needs to be rescued. You've been scammed, bro ... and not by the Dawg or Sky.

He certainly hasn't been scammed by Sky or Froome. Nor has most of the cycling public. But he's entirely right about who the PR nonsense is aimed at.

Well, some of the 'standard' fans and I are going to sit down at my place and watch the Giro on the big screen. I hope Froome is there (but won't bat an eye, if he's not) because it might be a good TD-CF showdown. I'll put on some food and beers and laughs. You and Martin are quite welcome to join, if you like. If not, feel free to boycott the event outside my place. If it's chilly, we'll bring out some hot coffee, periodically. Entirely up to you, my friend.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that some subset of Brits actually believe he's clean and that's who Sky's PR is aimed at, but I guess changing the subject is the point of your commentary.

But yeah, I'll watch the Giro as I always do. 5 am is a bit early for beers, but I'll have some coffee and have it on while I work. I've been watching doped cyclists race since about 1975 so it won't be any news to me. They used to, however, have the courtesy not to insult our collective intelligence. I very much preferred that approach.
Ah, yes..... Those were the days! ;)
 
Indeed! Bring back the '77 Tour (known at the time as the Tour of Doping), and Michel Pollentier and his prosthetic penis tube. Thevenet and his cortisone win. etc etc etc.

Doping was, as you imply, rampant, as were attempts to evade detection. But of course penalties were, by today's standards, almost nothing. Get caught doping in the Tour? No 2 year ban and excoriation by press and doping peers...oh no...at worst you might get ejected from the Tour, but you might get away with a mere time penalty. So no real need to "not to insult our collective intelligence", because people were not really looking and there certainly wasn't the moral imperative.

Yes, those were the days (But only if you make the mistake of viewing them from today's perspective)
 
Re:

macbindle said:
Indeed! Bring back the '77 Tour (known at the time as the Tour of Doping), and Michel Pollentier and his prosthetic penis tube. Thevenet and his cortisone win. etc etc etc.

Doping was, as you imply, rampant, as were attempts to evade detection. But of course penalties were, by today's standards, almost nothing. Get caught doping in the Tour? No 2 year ban and excoriation by press and doping peers...oh no...at worst you might get ejected from the Tour, but you might get away with a mere time penalty. So no real need to "not to insult our collective intelligence", because people were not really looking and there certainly wasn't the moral imperative.

Yes, those were the days (But only if you make the mistake of viewing them from today's perspective)

Well some people don’t get the societal/monetary/pharmaceutical wide restratifications that upped the game all around. I’m a bit with Alpe on that one.

Conversely, you can’t deny the Anglo arrogance and hubris that Sky brought to bear.
 
Re: Re:

aphronesis said:
macbindle said:
Indeed! Bring back the '77 Tour (known at the time as the Tour of Doping), and Michel Pollentier and his prosthetic penis tube. Thevenet and his cortisone win. etc etc etc.

Doping was, as you imply, rampant, as were attempts to evade detection. But of course penalties were, by today's standards, almost nothing. Get caught doping in the Tour? No 2 year ban and excoriation by press and doping peers...oh no...at worst you might get ejected from the Tour, but you might get away with a mere time penalty. So no real need to "not to insult our collective intelligence", because people were not really looking and there certainly wasn't the moral imperative.

Yes, those were the days (But only if you make the mistake of viewing them from today's perspective)

Well some people don’t get the societal/monetary/pharmaceutical wide restratifications that upped the game all around. I’m a bit with Alpe on that one.

Conversely, you can’t deny the Anglo arrogance and hubris that Sky brought to bear.

I believe its the 'transformations' that are the cause of the ire....its not necessarily the PEDS (as everyone does that) just that we get donkeys winning monuments....Wiggo, Froome, and in the lower leagues, JTL.........that its doing in such a boring way and with the marginal gains BS only piles on insult to injury......
 
Re: Re:

gillan1969 said:
aphronesis said:
macbindle said:
Indeed! Bring back the '77 Tour (known at the time as the Tour of Doping), and Michel Pollentier and his prosthetic penis tube. Thevenet and his cortisone win. etc etc etc.

Doping was, as you imply, rampant, as were attempts to evade detection. But of course penalties were, by today's standards, almost nothing. Get caught doping in the Tour? No 2 year ban and excoriation by press and doping peers...oh no...at worst you might get ejected from the Tour, but you might get away with a mere time penalty. So no real need to "not to insult our collective intelligence", because people were not really looking and there certainly wasn't the moral imperative.

Yes, those were the days (But only if you make the mistake of viewing them from today's perspective)

Well some people don’t get the societal/monetary/pharmaceutical wide restratifications that upped the game all around. I’m a bit with Alpe on that one.

Conversely, you can’t deny the Anglo arrogance and hubris that Sky brought to bear.

I believe its the 'transformations' that are the cause of the ire....its not necessarily the PEDS (as everyone does that) just that we get donkeys winning monuments....Wiggo, Froome, and in the lower leagues, JTL.........that its doing in such a boring way and with the marginal gains BS only piles on insult to injury......

I’m not sure what you would honestly expect inthe 21st century.
 
gillan1969 said:
aphronesis said:
macbindle said:
Indeed! Bring back the '77 Tour (known at the time as the Tour of Doping), and Michel Pollentier and his prosthetic penis tube. Thevenet and his cortisone win. etc etc etc.

Doping was, as you imply, rampant, as were attempts to evade detection. But of course penalties were, by today's standards, almost nothing. Get caught doping in the Tour? No 2 year ban and excoriation by press and doping peers...oh no...at worst you might get ejected from the Tour, but you might get away with a mere time penalty. So no real need to "not to insult our collective intelligence", because people were not really looking and there certainly wasn't the moral imperative.

Yes, those were the days (But only if you make the mistake of viewing them from today's perspective)

Well some people don’t get the societal/monetary/pharmaceutical wide restratifications that upped the game all around. I’m a bit with Alpe on that one.

Conversely, you can’t deny the Anglo arrogance and hubris that Sky brought to bear.

I believe its the 'transformations' that are the cause of the ire....its not necessarily the PEDS (as everyone does that) just that we get donkeys winning monuments....Wiggo, Froome, and in the lower leagues, JTL.........that its doing in such a boring way and with the marginal gains BS only piles on insult to injury......


So what are we saying here in respect to "transformations"?

Are we saying we'd prefer it if Froome and Wiggins had doped to the max right from the start (like Contador et al) so that our suspension of disbelief would flow a little easier?
 
Robert5091 said:
http://www.velonews.com/2018/01/news/bardet-blasts-froome-doping-inquiry-laughing-stock_454828
Bardet blasts Froome over doping inquiry: ‘We are a laughing stock’

Leading French rider Romain Bardet called cycling “a laughing stock” for failing to announce any sanctions against Chris Froome since his adverse doping test during last year’s Vuelta a Espana was revealed.
The fact is we have no business knowing about froomes abnormal reading, we should only know if he gets found guilty and is banned , it was only leaked because it was froome, I do wonder how many riders have had the same problem that we’ve never heard about
 
rick james said:
Robert5091 said:
http://www.velonews.com/2018/01/news/bardet-blasts-froome-doping-inquiry-laughing-stock_454828
Bardet blasts Froome over doping inquiry: ‘We are a laughing stock’

Leading French rider Romain Bardet called cycling “a laughing stock” for failing to announce any sanctions against Chris Froome since his adverse doping test during last year’s Vuelta a Espana was revealed.
The fact is we have no business knowing about froomes abnormal reading, we should only know if he gets found guilty and is banned , it was only leaked because it was froome, I do wonder how many riders have had the same problem that we’ve never heard about
So that's why positives for the same drug for Petacchi and Ullisi never had to be leaked
 
Red Rick said:
rick james said:
Robert5091 said:
http://www.velonews.com/2018/01/news/bardet-blasts-froome-doping-inquiry-laughing-stock_454828
Bardet blasts Froome over doping inquiry: ‘We are a laughing stock’

Leading French rider Romain Bardet called cycling “a laughing stock” for failing to announce any sanctions against Chris Froome since his adverse doping test during last year’s Vuelta a Espana was revealed.
The fact is we have no business knowing about froomes abnormal reading, we should only know if he gets found guilty and is banned , it was only leaked because it was froome, I do wonder how many riders have had the same problem that we’ve never heard about
So that's why positives for the same drug for Petacchi and Ullisi never had to be leaked
And why Bert's test wasn't leaked...
 
rick james said:
Robert5091 said:
http://www.velonews.com/2018/01/news/bardet-blasts-froome-doping-inquiry-laughing-stock_454828
Bardet blasts Froome over doping inquiry: ‘We are a laughing stock’

Leading French rider Romain Bardet called cycling “a laughing stock” for failing to announce any sanctions against Chris Froome since his adverse doping test during last year’s Vuelta a Espana was revealed.
The fact is we have no business knowing about froomes abnormal reading, we should only know if he gets found guilty and is banned , it was only leaked because it was froome, I do wonder how many riders have had the same problem that we’ve never heard about

we may not have a right, but we certainly have business

besides...without the leak about our hapless hero, we would not have been provided with such nuggets at the PEDs for press conference scenario, the some weird physiology from Swart and now the 24hr malfunctioning kidney....how could you deny us such fun ;)
 
I've just got to say this. You are all far too harsh on Froome.

For somebody with so many serious illnesses and a malfunctioning kidney he has done amazingly well to win 4 Grand Tours. You should all cut him some slack and stop being so disabilist.

He is an inspiration to all seriously ill people out there...





( :lol: )
 
Re:

macbindle said:
Indeed! Bring back the '77 Tour (known at the time as the Tour of Doping), and Michel Pollentier and his prosthetic penis tube. Thevenet and his cortisone win. etc etc etc.

Doping was, as you imply, rampant, as were attempts to evade detection. But of course penalties were, by today's standards, almost nothing. Get caught doping in the Tour? No 2 year ban and excoriation by press and doping peers...oh no...at worst you might get ejected from the Tour, but you might get away with a mere time penalty. So no real need to "not to insult our collective intelligence", because people were not really looking and there certainly wasn't the moral imperative.

Yes, those were the days (But only if you make the mistake of viewing them from today's perspective)

As you may have surmised, not my point, but yeah it was mucho dirty back then. And the dope was sorta lame. But I kinda liked the smaller penalties, kept things from getting dragged out. Have to say it was a better sport in the 80s.

I think we've had a few decades of doping having a feigned moral imperative and severe enough penalties that I'm comfortable that most top teams and riders haven't insulted my intelligence. Armstrong aside. Well even him, at least he didn't make up his disease.
 
ClassicomanoLuigi said:
J'étais désolé. C'est très mauvais pour tout le monde que cela concerne la tête d'affiche de notre sport. Cela donne une connotation très négative du vélo à l'extérieur. C'est une ''affaire'' qui remet le spectre du dopage dans le sport cycliste. On n'a plus de crédibilité, ça devient inintelligible pour le grand public. On sait que l'usage du salbutamol peut être détourné, qu'il y a de l'hypocrisie".
"Je veux bien croire à la bonne foi de Chris Froome, mais quand le seuil est dépassé, les règlements prévoient une sanction. On ne peut plus se permettre de permissivité"

"Froome passe le test en septembre et, au petit bonheur la chance, on l’apprend en décembre. La saison démarre sans qu’aucune décision n’ait été prise. On est ridicule, on est la risée. On marche sur la tête."
"Je suis stupéfait que, sans une fuite dans la presse, on aurait passé sous silence ce contrôle et qu’on l’aurait peut-être appris dans quelques années. Je suis soulagé qu’on n’ait pas lavé le linge sale en famille. On manque de transparence. Le vélo risque de mourir si des mesures ne sont pas prises dans ce sens."
I'm disappointed. It's very bad for everyone, since it involves a figurehead of our sport. To the outside observer, this gives them a very negative impression of cycling. It's another "scandal" which brings the specter of doping back to the cycling world. We have no credibility remaining, it just becomes incomprehensible to the general public. Everyone knows that the use of salbutamol can be diverted to doping, and that there is this hypocrisy. I would really like to believe in the good faith of Chris Froome, but when the threshold has been surpassed, the rules provide for a penalty. We can no longer afford this permissiveness.

Froome took the test in September, and then, through luck alone, we learned about it in December. The season was going by, without any decision having been taken. It's ridiculous, we are laughingstocks. We have been turned upside-down. I am stunned that, without it having been leaked in the press, this doping positive would have passed by in silence, and we would have perhaps only learned about it a few years from now. I'm relieved that this dirty laundry did not get rinsed clean within the privacy of our family home. There is a lack of transparency. Cycling risks dying, unless something is done in that regard.
"J’espère une enquête indépendante devant laquelle Froome rendra des comptes, pour faire toute la lumière, et un verdict indépendant. Je regrette que les règlements ne prévoient pas une mise à l’écart provisoire de la compétition en attendant le résultat. La Fédération est prudente car, en cas de relaxe, on lui demanderait des indemnités pour réparer un préjudice. La pression financière est très forte. Face au team Sky, ça fait réfléchir".
"Est-ce que l’UCI aura les moyens de faire toute la lumière sur cette histoire ? Les experts pourront-ils établir s’il est possible naturellement de présenter ce taux élevé ? On connaît la puissance de Sky en termes de budget, de compétences. C’est là l’enjeu. On est sur une friche scientifique"
J’espère que les conditions seront remplies pour qu’on sache ce qui s’est passé. Et s’il était blanchi ? La question ne se pose pas dans ces termes. Mais j’ai du mal à imaginer qu’un coureur avec cette dose de salbutamol puisse être blanchi. Sinon pourquoi mettre des seuils ? Ou bien il faudrait une grosse avancée scientifique en quelques mois seulement… Voyez la jurisprudence : on constate que les coureurs pris dans cet étau ont été condamnés. Si ce n’est pas le cas de Froome, à la place d’Ulissi et d’autres, je me poserais des questions sur ma défense
"Je vois mal comment Froome peut courir en faisant comme si de rien n’était... Puisque le team Sky ne bouge pas, rien n’empêche son coureur de prendre lui-même la décision de se mettre en retrait dans l’attente d’une décision des autorités."
I'm hoping for an independent investigation, in which Froome will have to give his account, to clarify everything, and for an independent verdict. It's unfortunate that the rules don't ensure a temporary disqualification from competition, while waiting for the outcome. The Federation is being cautious, because, in the case of exoneration, they might get sued for damages to the reputation of the athlete. The financial pressure is very strong. When you're dealing with Team Sky, that makes you think twice. Does the UCI have the means to bring this whole story out? Can the experts determine whether it is possible to have such an elevated level naturally? We know how strong Team Sky is, in terms of budget and technical skill. That's the challenge, we are now on a scientific testing-ground. I hope that the conditions will be fulfilled such that we know what really happened. And if it gets whitewashed? The question can't be posed in those terms. I can't imagine how a rider with that dose of salbutamol can be called clean. Otherwise, why have the threshold in the first place? Or, there would have to have been some great scientific advances within the past few months ... Look at the legal precedent, we can note that all the riders caught in this trap got sanctioned. If that is not the case for Froome, then if I were in the position of Ulissi and the others, they ought to question their own defense.
I really don't see how Froome can keep riding, as if nothing happened. Although Sky itself is not making the move, nothing prevents one of their riders from deciding himself to step aside, while awaiting the decision of the authorities."
Thank you for providing a translation to Bardet's comments, but could you please edit your post to include the fact that it does come from Romain Bardet? Although we all mostly know who it's from it could be confusing later on to someone that may not be completely up to speed with everything going on today.

TIA :)

Cheers
 
ClassicomanoLuigi said:
Thank you for providing a translation to Bardet's comments, but could you please edit your post to include the fact that it does come from Romain Bardet? Although we all mostly know who it's from it could be confusing later on to someone that may not be completely up to speed with everything going on today. TIA :) Cheers
Done, and done. Thanks for pointing that out.
This interview with Bardet was a full-on confrontation of the Froome case, and even criticizes the Team Sky legal tactics.

Regardless of what you believe about it, respect to Bardet for "going there" when no other major rivals had the guts to say it

There does appear to be a “undertone” from the riders that have spoken that Sky have some form of protection and that this test wouldn’t have come to see the light of day without the leak.
 

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