Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

It seldom fails to demonstrate how an appeal to authority leads to a logical fallacy.

I'm always impressed when people show their ability to combat opinions with personal anecdotes. My personal favourites are usually the ones they keep to themselves as they often take great care guarding the privacy of the person(s) mentioned. It seldom fails to demonstrate how an appeal to authority leads to a logical fallacy.
I also wondered what one could possibly say about the knowledge of a ficititious person. Maybe an Italian rider fell from his bike, hurt his head and lost hist marbles. Who knows. Maybe he tried to give an answer that he hoped would shorten the discussion; I could certainly relate to that. Could it be less relevant than Froome's original 2011 schedule though..

Usually, these guys don't know what an 'appeal to authority' is. If they did, they wouldn't be talking bs on the forums trying to look important.

"Trying to look important" :lol:

Well done for that incisive piece of cod psychology.

Perhaps you two should consider the context of what I said. If it isn't by personal anecdote how on earth could it be talked about?

Actually don't bother answering I think we've seen enough from you.

Guys, it's been fun (not) but Im going to leave you to it. There are only a handful of people here who read posts intelligently and then think before posting rather than seizing on something out of context just so that they can post whatever snark makes them feel better about themselves.

Enjoy cycling. It isn't only about drugs

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

Kerrison (sky sports scientist) to BBC; "we had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake"

Froome own Instagram account in June last year he posted he knew exactly where the Finestre was & that it was in the Giro - he has a video of him talking about it. Clearly not “by mistake”

Sky trying to rewrite history just like Brailsford saying that Wiggins having left before the team bus and the arrival of said Jiffy Bag and then Wiggins was on the bus administering contents of the bag.

Ah well, they do so much cleaning they cant remember every little detail.............

I guess you didn't read the article then...just the headlines?

Here you go, i'll save you the effort...

"We had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake. We were in Sestriere in June last year to have a look at some of that year's Tour de France stages, and we had an extra day. At that stage we didn't know the Finestre was in this year's Giro. We didn't know Chris was going to do this year's Giro. But we thought, while we're here, let's 'recon' for a future stage that Chris or another rider might do.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Kerrison (sky sports scientist) to BBC; "we had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake"

Froome own Instagram account in June last year he posted he knew exactly where the Finestre was & that it was in the Giro - he has a video of him talking about it. Clearly not “by mistake”

Sky trying to rewrite history just like Brailsford saying that Wiggins having left before the team bus and the arrival of said Jiffy Bag and then Wiggins was on the bus administering contents of the bag.

Ah well, they do so much cleaning they cant remember every little detail.............

I guess you didn't read the article then...just the headlines?

Wasnt the Giro route announced in November?

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re: Re:

Kerrison (sky sports scientist) to BBC; "we had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake"

Froome own Instagram account in June last year he posted he knew exactly where the Finestre was & that it was in the Giro - he has a video of him talking about it. Clearly not “by mistake”

Sky trying to rewrite history just like Brailsford saying that Wiggins having left before the team bus and the arrival of said Jiffy Bag and then Wiggins was on the bus administering contents of the bag.

Ah well, they do so much cleaning they cant remember every little detail.............

I guess you didn't read the article then...just the headlines?

Here you go, i'll save you the effort...

"We had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake. We were in Sestriere in June last year to have a look at some of that year's Tour de France stages, and we had an extra day. At that stage we didn't know the Finestre was in this year's Giro. We didn't know Chris was going to do this year's Giro. But we thought, while we're here, let's 'recon' for a future stage that Chris or another rider might do.

Or just tweets on the subject by the Doperati

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Kerrison (sky sports scientist) to BBC; "we had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake"

Froome own Instagram account in June last year he posted he knew exactly where the Finestre was & that it was in the Giro - he has a video of him talking about it. Clearly not “by mistake”

Sky trying to rewrite history just like Brailsford saying that Wiggins having left before the team bus and the arrival of said Jiffy Bag and then Wiggins was on the bus administering contents of the bag.

Ah well, they do so much cleaning they cant remember every little detail.............

I guess you didn't read the article then...just the headlines?

Here you go, i'll save you the effort...

"We had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake. We were in Sestriere in June last year to have a look at some of that year's Tour de France stages, and we had an extra day. At that stage we didn't know the Finestre was in this year's Giro. We didn't know Chris was going to do this year's Giro. But we thought, while we're here, let's 'recon' for a future stage that Chris or another rider might do.

:lol:

 

[CTQ]

Re:

Kerrison (sky sports scientist) to BBC; "we had reconnoitred the Finestre by mistake"

Froome own Instagram account in June last year he posted he knew exactly where the Finestre was & that it was in the Giro - he has a video of him talking about it. Clearly not “by mistake”

Sky trying to rewrite history just like Brailsford saying that Wiggins having left before the team bus and the arrival of said Jiffy Bag and then Wiggins was on the bus administering contents of the bag.

Ah well, they do so much cleaning they cant remember every little detail.............

They were in training camp for the TDF (Izoard and al) He said they did something different today for fun. they were training not far away from finestre , i believe when they said by accident , it means that Finestre wasn't part of the training plan

 

[silvergrenade]

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

 

[python]

Re: Re:

macbindle:

"Trying to look important" :lol:

i read it exactly the way djoop did, particularly b/c i saw the line 'i know someone, who knows' used in other threads.

macbindle:

There are only a handful of people here who read posts intelligently and then think before posting

i dont think that those who did not buy your line of arguments about froome deserved such a mis-charachterization.
several intelligent and subtle posts just did not agree with you. does not mean the posters did not invest a thought .

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/1004663176745635841

Sounds like Sky are going to release a lot of data from the Giro. Unlikely to appease some but a good move nonetheless.

Big mistake?
https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1002425189156745216

ASO has requested Youtube to remove Froomes exploit on Mont Ventoux from 2013 and Velon is reluctant to release their data from Col de Finestre. Time to consider is data should be made public or not. I think the later. Would never hand my opponent my data to be used against me.

Plus the non believers would still say he went up all the climbs on an ebike. :lol:

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/1004663176745635841

Sounds like Sky are going to release a lot of data from the Giro. Unlikely to appease some but a good move nonetheless.

Big mistake?
https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1002425189156745216

ASO has requested Youtube to remove Froomes exploit on Mont Ventoux from 2013 and Velon is reluctant to release their data from Col de Finestre. Time to consider is data should be made public or not. I think the later. Would never hand my opponent my data to be used against me.

Plus the non believers would still say he went up all the climbs on an ebike. :lol:

Well Rasmussen doesn't believe Brailsfraud.

https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1004620203802677248

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/1004663176745635841

Sounds like Sky are going to release a lot of data from the Giro. Unlikely to appease some but a good move nonetheless.

Big mistake?
https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1002425189156745216

ASO has requested Youtube to remove Froomes exploit on Mont Ventoux from 2013 and Velon is reluctant to release their data from Col de Finestre. Time to consider is data should be made public or not. I think the later. Would never hand my opponent my data to be used against me.

Plus the non believers would still say he went up all the climbs on an ebike. :lol:

Remember the last time Sky released data from PSM? They dialed it back with a 8% variance meaning Froome produced less power than those behind him

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/1004663176745635841

Sounds like Sky are going to release a lot of data from the Giro. Unlikely to appease some but a good move nonetheless.

Big mistake?
https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1002425189156745216

ASO has requested Youtube to remove Froomes exploit on Mont Ventoux from 2013 and Velon is reluctant to release their data from Col de Finestre. Time to consider is data should be made public or not. I think the later. Would never hand my opponent my data to be used against me.

Plus the non believers would still say he went up all the climbs on an ebike. :lol:

Remember the last time Sky released data from PSM? They dialed it back with a 8% variance meaning Froome produced less power than those behind him

Yeah, that was so stupid.
Like Gallopin saying I did 5.7 W/kg and Tim K claiming a 5.5 or something.
I fell down from my bed laughing. :lol:

But I think they'll release much more than that. Something like a Strava thing.(Hopefully) If thats the case its a big mistake for sure

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/1004663176745635841

Sounds like Sky are going to release a lot of data from the Giro. Unlikely to appease some but a good move nonetheless.

Big mistake?
https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1002425189156745216

ASO has requested Youtube to remove Froomes exploit on Mont Ventoux from 2013 and Velon is reluctant to release their data from Col de Finestre. Time to consider is data should be made public or not. I think the later. Would never hand my opponent my data to be used against me.

Plus the non believers would still say he went up all the climbs on an ebike. :lol:

Well Rasmussen doesn't believe Brailsfraud.

https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/1004620203802677248

Rasmussen?
I dont think anybody on this earth believes SDB.. :lol:

 

[DanielSong39]

The dude doped and used a motor, and got away with it.

The sport of cycling is what it is, let's enjoy it for what it is and not what it should be.

 

[yaco]

I find it fascinating that cycling fans are so obsessed with the public release of power data and other performance indicators - My experience is cycling is just about the most open with this information - And doping occurs in all sports.

 

[masking_agent]

and he'll probably win the Tour , the Vuelta and the World's at this rate.. smh

 

[MartinGT]

They should ban power meters in competition. Allow for training but in comp ban them.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

They should ban power meters in competition. Allow for training but in comp ban them.

You think banning would stop Froome from winning?
The best would still rise to the top..In this case Christopher Froome

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

They should ban power meters in competition. Allow for training but in comp ban them.

You think banning would stop Froome from winning?
The best would still rise to the top..In this case Christopher Froome

:lol:

 

[keeponrollin]

Re: Re:

They should ban power meters in competition. Allow for training but in comp ban them.

You think banning would stop Froome from winning?
The best would still rise to the top..In this case Christopher Froome

if you want to ban something, ban the damn radios !

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

They should ban power meters in competition. Allow for training but in comp ban them.

You think banning would stop Froome from winning?
The best would still rise to the top..In this case Christopher Froome

:lol:

Or they could just ban Froome?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Just saw that Team Sky is set to release a lot of data from the 2018 Giro.
Big mistake IMO.

Where have you seen that?

Why is it a big mistake?

Mainly because it can't hope to really achieve all that much at this stage. It follows a pattern of late, or incomplete, release of data by Team Sky, at which point they can't really control the reaction. Lots of teams and riders released some fairly extensive data straight away, but the data that's important here has not been available until a much later date. Given the whole situation, they can't possibly hope for a positive outcome here, because if there are any abnormalities whatsoever they're going to be pounced upon like a pack of hyenas, and if there are none, they'll be accused of fudging the data.

After all, there is precedent of issues with Sky-released data. Such as when they only provided incomplete data to Frédéric Grappe, not including any Froome data from before his September 2011 coming-out party as part of the data release, limiting the usefulness of his pronouncements to explain away Froome's performance levels. And such as when they built such a significant error into the PSM figures which came out some time after the stage, and showed Froome putting out less power than Robert Gesink while clubbing him like a baby seal - and let's remember that Robert Gesink is somebody who is a tall, wiry climber like Froome, who genuinely did show promise as a young pro. Gesink's data was available straight away, Froome had to be coaxed into releasing his reluctantly some time later. Hell, even known crusaders for clean cycling like Alejandro Valverde were releasing data immediately, which only made the delay in Sky releasing theirs more suspect. Why did they require so long to upload those power files, if there was nothing to hide? What exactly did they think would be gleaned from power files that was so frightening to them? Why did Velon only get that one three kilometre burst, two days later, when others gave them the whole stage's worth straight away?

It all means that any data that comes out now is not going to be trusted - it's a bit like that time the drug testers allegedly were kept waiting for half an hour or whatever it was by Lance Armstrong while he was in the shower. It could be completely raw data, straight off Froome's bike, but with the team's history of data handling, and how long it's taken to make it to public consumption, how can we ever believe the numbers they give us?

 

[red_flanders]

Nikki Terpstra puts all his rides, training or racing, on Strava. Posts immediately as far as I can tell.

Rather a different approach.

 

[Alpe73]

Re:

Nikki Terpstra puts all his rides, training or racing, on Strava. Posts immediately as far as I can tell.

Rather a different approach.

Straight up question ... Are you proficient enough in power analysis to peruse Nikki’s data and conclude, with confidence, that there are or are not any red flags waving? In other words, does his data tell you he is a doper or not?