Fuglsang and Lutsenko under investigation for cooperation with Michele Ferrari.

[Joelsim]

Just meeting with Ferrari carries a two year ban.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Making no comment is an insane approach by Astana, Fuglsang and Lutsenko. Particularly Fuglsang. Kazakh media might not give Astana or Lutsenko a particularly hard time, but if Fuglsang doesn’t deny everything, he will be crucified in Denmark.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

staging a story of him having apparently risen from a nobody to a superstar in 2 years.

Staging? This is more or less the truth. Suddenly peaking at 33/34 is quite rare in cycling, isn't it?

 

[tobydawq]

Staging? This is more or less the truth. Suddenly peaking at 33/34 is quite rare in cycling, isn't it?

Okay, last year he was better than ever before, that's obvious to everyone, but it was just the way they said it. As if he had never done anything worthwhile before 2019. Even his Olympic medal which they celebrated to insanity back in the day was not mentioned with a word.

 

[Rollthedice]

Staging? This is more or less the truth. Suddenly peaking at 33/34 is quite rare in cycling, isn't it?

This might be the "ferrari effect" on a rider's career.

 

[ciranda]

CADF have requested a private company, the identity of which is known to DR, to 'identify possible and known connections' between Ferrari and Fuglsang.

from here https://www.dr.dk/sporten/cykling/jakob-fuglsang-efterforsket-forbindelse-til-kendt-dopinglaege

So this is the work of private detectives or some consulting business.

It's problematic in itself to have work like this done by outside contractors because they have obvious reasons to deliver results. But if the best they have is a story that some guys heard some other guy say they saw Ferrari with Fuglsang it reads more like Secret Pro guy fantasy tales than a substantial story.

For sure Jakob and Alexey could be super dirty but this is super random and lacking substance so far.

 

[Danskebjerge]

For sure Jakob and Alexey could be super dirty but this is super random and lacking substance so far.

Maybe so, but it was stuff like this that in the end cost Michael Rasmussen his Tour win and more or less his career.

 

[tobydawq]

The thing is that in most countries, people adore their national sport stars unconditionally (okay, this is really generalising, so just knock me off if this is completely wrong), but in Denmark there always seems to be a high degree of contempt and suspicion. For example, "he always crashes anyway", "he might have won that race and such and such but in the Tour, when it matters, he is poor" and most prevalently: " (when something bad happens for a local star)" are the usual comments you see on social media all the time.

So many people are more than ready to pick up the torches when respected media come up with unsubstantiated rumours like this. Why this is the case so much in Denmark, I have no idea.

 

[red_flanders]

The thing is that in most countries, people adore their national sport stars unconditionally (okay, this is really generalising, so just knock me off if this is completely wrong), but in Denmark there always seems to be a high degree of contempt and suspicion. For example, "he always crashes anyway", "he might have won that race and such and such but in the Tour, when it matters, he is poor" and most prevalently: " (when something bad happens for a local star)" are the usual comments you see on social media all the time.

So many people are more than ready to pick up the torches when respected media come up with unsubstantiated rumours like this. Why this is the case so much in Denmark, I have no idea.

Are you already sure these are unsubstantiated rumors? Seems a bit early to make that call.

 

[tobydawq]

Are you already sure these are unsubstantiated rumors? Seems a bit early to make that call.

Perhaps not but while breaking the story would have been a good time to provide the substance if it exists.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The thing is that in most countries, people adore their national sport stars unconditionally (okay, this is really generalising, so just knock me off if this is completely wrong), but in Denmark there always seems to be a high degree of contempt and suspicion. For example, "he always crashes anyway", "he might have won that race and such and such but in the Tour, when it matters, he is poor" and most prevalently: " (when something bad happens for a local star)" are the usual comments you see on social media all the time.

So many people are more than ready to pick up the torches when respected media come up with unsubstantiated rumours like this. Why this is the case so much in Denmark, I have no idea.

This behavior is really not uncommon and certainly not something exclusive to Danes, as you seem to be thinking. It's often simply a sarcastic way of coping with disappointment. Or being pessimistic in order to prevent disappointment (or fake not being disappointed). My local football team has left a trail of poor management for the past decade. Joking about failure and being sarcastic is sometimes the most obvious way to deal with things you are emotionally invested in. It may not have been clinic related, but i can tell you that both in Belgium (with Jurgen Van Den Broeck) and the Netherlands (with Gesink and Kelderman) there were similar feelings about them crashing out, so what did it matter anyway. It's a way to emotionally detach from failure, imho.

As for Fuglsang, i can believe he could be guilty. Not saying he is, or that it's proven, but it kind of makes sense. Like others have pointed out, peaking at his age is simply not normal, especially when never having been remotely close to that level ever before. It also makes sense for a rider in the later years of a career to do some shady stuff. There is basically nothing left to lose (especially for a non-winner without a legacy). Don't do it, and you fade away anyway. Do it, and if you're successful, chances are you won't get caught since you only need to ride out the remaining two or three years and get to retire with some nice prizes. And if actually you do get caught, chances are they can only make the case by the time you're laying on a beach in Hawaii and the general public hardly remembers your face. It makes a lot more sense than doing it early in a career, when you can get slapped with bans and burn the rest of your career all at once. Also, after being pro for 10 years, you know the ins and outs, you know who has been following a successful program, who has been caught, what to avoid and what not. Where as a young rider is probably more dependent on a team program, or likely to end up doing dumb *** on his own. That's my take on it, though it's probably harder to pull off now, than it was 10 years ago.

Can't comment on the newsreporting. Didn't see the actual (initial) reports yet.

 

[Koronin]

The thing is that in most countries, people adore their national sport stars unconditionally (okay, this is really generalising, so just knock me off if this is completely wrong), but in Denmark there always seems to be a high degree of contempt and suspicion. For example, "he always crashes anyway", "he might have won that race and such and such but in the Tour, when it matters, he is poor" and most prevalently: " (when something bad happens for a local star)" are the usual comments you see on social media all the time.

So many people are more than ready to pick up the torches when respected media come up with unsubstantiated rumours like this. Why this is the case so much in Denmark, I have no idea.

In the US it depends on the person and what they did wrong. Willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a point. There are plenty of examples of universally loved athletes as well as those who have fallen hard. For the most part our sports stars are more regional. Which team does he play for will make a difference as well. NFL and NBA players are our biggest sports stars, but very few are universally loved. Walter Payton likely is one of those few who is.

 

[red_flanders]

Perhaps not but while breaking the story would have been a good time to provide the substance if it exists.

Possibly, I don't know the details, but seems like it might be pretty premature at this point.

 

[yaco]

Just meeting with Ferrari carries a two year ban.

Not in reality - A few in the American peleton meet and train with Armstrong and nothing happens.

 

[red_flanders]

Not in reality - A few in the American peleton meet and train with Armstrong and nothing happens.

I guess to state the obvious, Armstrong and Ferrari are not the same person.

 

[spalco]

How absolutely *** stupid does a pro cyclist have to be to have any contact with Ferrari these days whatsoever?

 

[markene2]

Who cares, water is wet. Forza Luts

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

This might be the "ferrari effect" on a rider's career.

Yeah, and it's not like he was squeaky clean before. The way he climbed during the 2009 Dauphiné, dropping Contador and Cadel "Ferrari engine" Evans came way out of left field

CQ Ranking - Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 5 : Valence - Mont Ventoux

CQ Ranking is the world's leading cycling ranking and extensive results database. Also known as Cycling Quotient.

cqranking.com

 

[yaco]

I guess to state the obvious, Armstrong and Ferrari are not the same person.

Armstrong is disqualified for life and the WADA rules state no association should occur.

 

[hrotha]

How absolutely *** stupid does a pro cyclist have to be to have any contact with Ferrari these days whatsoever?

Very.
Assuming those who do are usually caught and that there's no secret clients around merrily reaping the benefits as we speak, which might well be a huge assumption.

 

[scapewalker]

How absolutely *** stupid does a pro cyclist have to be to have any contact with Ferrari these days whatsoever?

Well it's justifiable imo if you look at the CQ ranking graph rollthedice shared above. ;P

 

[Rollthedice]

Are you already sure these are unsubstantiated rumors? Seems a bit early to make that call.

I don't think this looks like "unsubstantiated rumors":

"The 24 pages long report was commissioned by Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF), international cycling’s independent watchdog and written by a well-reputed external company. It is based on »intelligence« suggesting that the Danish sport star is linked to the banned physician Michele Ferrari.
»CADF intelligence indicates that Astana Pro Team cyclist Jakob FUGLSANG is under Michele FERRARI’s doping program, and that teammate Alexey LUTSENKO was present during at least one meeting between the two in Nice/Monaco«, the report says.

For some reason CADF deemed Fuglsang suspicious, ordered a report, Danish media got hold of it. All over the world cycling media picked it up. Now let's hear some Birdsong reactions.

 

[tobydawq]

I don't think this looks like "unsubstantiated rumors":

"The 24 pages long report was commissioned by Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF), international cycling’s independent watchdog and written by a well-reputed external company. It is based on »intelligence« suggesting that the Danish sport star is linked to the banned physician Michele Ferrari.
»CADF intelligence indicates that Astana Pro Team cyclist Jakob FUGLSANG is under Michele FERRARI’s doping program, and that teammate Alexey LUTSENKO was present during at least one meeting between the two in Nice/Monaco«, the report says.

For some reason CADF deemed Fuglsang suspicious, ordered a report, Danish media got hold of it. All over the world cycling media picked it up. Now let's hear some Birdsong reactions.

But if they have such a fine report, then why don't they convey specifically what their evidence is? So far they have just referred to it as some sort of holy text that is too divine for us mortals to comprehend.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ferrari's whole Camper got wired by the Italian police, so him meeting with a team at a wt race and even motopacing a rider himself in the Nice/Monaco regions sounds just way to careless. Why would you have him doing the motopacing when that can alreafy get you a 2 year ban, and then in such a crowded area?
If you're still willing to work with him you propably take some precations. There are also a lot of shady guys that you can work with that won't get you a 2 year ban because working with them is already banned. Even working with freaking Fuentes hasn't been banned/he isn't on the list.

 

[Joelsim]

Not a dickie bird out of Fuglsang so far, not even a tweet.