Funds lacking for Pais Vasco and San Sebastian

[hrotha]

Considering it costs 2 million Euros to organize a race like the Ronde van Vlaanderen, 3 million in reserve isn't really much...

The UCI doesn't pay that money, though. I realize €3m isn't much, but that's kind of the point, considering how much organizers are paying for a WT licence.

 

[El Pistolero]

The UCI doesn't pay that money, though. I realize €3m isn't much, but that's kind of the point, considering how much organizers are paying for a WT licence.

What I mean is, even if they wanted to, they couldn't bail out a lot of races with financial problems.

 

[hrotha]

What I mean is, even if they wanted to, they couldn't bail out a lot of races with financial problems.

Oh, I see. What I meant is not that they could afford to bail these races out, but that someone should ask where all the money is going and why they have so little of it.

 

[Michele]

Not sure what a "breakaway league' could do to help Spanish economic woes. Or what the UCI could do for that matter.

BTW, I live in a very culturally diverse biking area, and many of my "asian" customers are very big cycling fans. Just saying. Diversity is good financially too.

I do have asian cycling friends who don't know follow at all the pro races, and on other hands I have asian cycling friends who dream to come to Europe to watch races (not some race made up last minute in China).

It does? No fans, I wonder how long these races will last

Perhaps when the Chinese government realizes people in the Western world aren't as easily manipulated as their Chinese counterparts these races will vanish into thin air again.

China doesn't care about cycling fans, they just wanna show they've got money. Nothing else.

And yes, probably the races will dissapear or simply change name and location as already happened in past.

 

[Mambo95]

Oh, I see. What I meant is not that they could afford to bail these races out, but that someone should ask where all the money is going and why they have so little of it.

A lot of the money gets spent of dope testing. A single test costs upwards of $500, and that's not including the cost of the sample takers, storage, lawyers etc, etc.

 

[hrotha]

A lot of the money gets spent of dope testing. A single test costs upwards of $500, and that's not including the cost of the sample takers, storage, lawyers etc, etc.

Don't the teams pay for much of that?

Anyway, apparently it turns out the WT licences aren't as ridiculously expensive as previously reported.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/funds-lacking-for-pais-vasco-and-san-sebastian

Will they stay or will they go?

Too bad if these are to go, but if the local sponsors sees no opportunity perhaps its time to move on from some of these races. One way or other, the race calendar needs to change in any case.

 

[Leonardus]

I really hope the organisers manage to bridge the budget gap, it's not that big so I would be really surprised if there is nobody to help them out to keep this major races alive with their long history.
But in general, a lot of organisers in Spain have difficulties with their budgets. Maybe organisers should rethink the way they get their resources, find other ways to attract sponsors or try to sell tv-rights to more networks and other countries. And maybe if they can't increase their money sources they should consider to merge some of the smaller races to maintain 3, 4 or 5 bigger stage races which can attract most of the worldtour teams.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I really hope the organisers manage to bridge the budget gap, it's not that big so I would be really surprised if there is nobody to help them out to keep this major races alive with their long history.
But in general, a lot of organisers in Spain have difficulties with their budgets. Maybe organisers should rethink the way they get their resources, find other ways to attract sponsors or try to sell tv-rights to more networks and other countries. And maybe if they can't increase their money sources they should consider to merge some of the smaller races to maintain 3, 4 or 5 bigger stage races which can attract most of the worldtour teams.

Solid suggestion. Concentrate the races. Increase the focus.

 

[Nick C.]

It seems like there is a disconnect based on this quote from CNs article:

UCI President Pat McQuaid was pleased with the upswing. “It is very pleasing to see that the men`s professional cycling is prospering in these difficult times. Most of the cyclists within the professional peloton can live very well, or at least comfortably, on their salaries thanks to the support of sponsors who invest in this sport. These sponsors are attracted by the extremely good visibility cycling provides them throughout the year.”

 

[Duartista]

A lot of the money gets spent of dope testing. A single test costs upwards of $500, and that's not including the cost of the sample takers, storage, lawyers etc, etc.

I think a certain percentage of the prize money is the organisers' contribution to dope testing costs, which is distinct from the WT licence fee.

 

[Ferminal]

Too bad if these are to go, but if the local sponsors sees no opportunity perhaps its time to move on from some of these races. One way or other, the race calendar needs to change in any case.

In what way? There will be a huge hole in the stage racing calendar if Catalunya (thankfully going ahead this year) and Pais Vasco go under. Between the beginning of March and start of the Giro you would only have Castilla y Leon, Trentino and Romandie as serious stage races. I recall two of those three are also struggling financially. I don't care if the races do fold, as long as there is an equal replacement.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

In what way?

a planned way, not caused by cash problems in the middle of the season. This is a difficult process, but the WT is the right tool and perhaps some of these race problems can push the concept along. Personally, I think there are only about a handful of races that really "demands" their place on the calendar today, the rest could see a shuffle (removal, merger or just a date change) as part of a broader review. Today, Spain and several other countires in Europe can't sustain a broad range of races at the top of the sport and hence I think the sport needs to take a more proactive approach rather than the current fizzle we see today. Note, I am mainly concerned about the top of our sport in this discussion and I can only really see a couple of things that are important at this level when discussing races: a challenging parcours, local fans and broadcasted coverage all backed up by willing sponsors.

 

[Bavarianrider]

No problem, they just have to ask German politicicans for some money. We'll pay for it. How much do they need?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Cycling fans call to save the Basque races on Twitter

http://www.eitb.com/en/sports/detail/838327/twitter--save-the-basque-races/

 

[Dazed and Confused]

It seems like there is a disconnect based on this quote from CNs article:

UCI President Pat McQuaid was pleased with the upswing. “It is very pleasing to see that the men`s professional cycling is prospering in these difficult times. Most of the cyclists within the professional peloton can live very well, or at least comfortably, on their salaries thanks to the support of sponsors who invest in this sport. These sponsors are attracted by the extremely good visibility cycling provides them throughout the year.”

Well, it is good that money is flowing into the teams. Higher salaries attracts better talent longer term, but there are massive problems behind these figures: a large portion of the cash comes from "charity" rather than real business (BMC, Radioshack, Greenedge, OPQS) and some comes from extraordinary exposure (London Olympics/Sky). When the fun is over, other teams may pick up some of the slack, but in reality the current spending is not sustainable (a bit like football clubs in Europe).

 

[Mellow Velo]

In what way? There will be a huge hole in the stage racing calendar if Catalunya (thankfully going ahead this year) and Pais Vasco go under. Between the beginning of March and start of the Giro you would only have Castilla y Leon, Trentino and Romandie as serious stage races. I recall two of those three are also struggling financially. I don't care if the races do fold, as long as there is an equal replacement.

This is a huge concern, imo. If Pais Vasco folds this year, Catalunya is bound to follow suit, next year. It's been on a financial knife edge for about half a decade.
As you point out, there are no viable alternates.

It's OK to cry: don't worry, the US and China etc can easily fill the gap, but with what?

The only answer I can see is to move AToC into mid April. (where I have said it should be all along and screw their high, but pointless climbs)
Other than that, what have we got? Langkawi?

Doesn't cut it for me.

Pais Vasco is caught between a rock and a hard place. The obvious solution would be to follow Mallorca, Murcia and Castilla y Leon, in cutting the number of race days.
However, being tied to the World Tour means that this decision presumably could only be taken with the consent of the UCI.
Not the simple consent that those races above received, either.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The UCI have no intention of watching out. This is exactly what they want. Who cares about fans, riders, prestige or actual entertainment when you've got government money to make in the name of globalisation? After all, the UCI's own race-organising body runs those Asian races; they don't run País Vasco or San Sebastián. So for the UCI this is win-win, because it opens up some slots on the calendar for them to run their own events against the historic events (and make them WT so the top teams have to attend, weakening the traditional events), and also strengthens their stranglehold on the sport's World calendar, by getting rid of some of those pesky races that aren't under their control.

As long as the UCI is able to decide on what is and isn't World Tour and also has its own racing organisational body, then conflict of interests will continue, and McQuaid won't be happy until he's killed the sport in backwater, boring countries like Spain, France, Belgium and Italy in favour of "emerging markets" (read: places with lots of money, but that don't give a damn about cycling).

+100

Expect many of these high profile events to vanish off the premier calendar. If anything, the UCI will keep changing the rules to help quicken the demise of traditional events that don't belong to ASO.

It wasn't that long ago that Pat was campaigning AGAINST the Giro 'd Italia in favor of the Amgen's doping prep for the TdF race.

As for the events in China, they've got to do something with all those euros and swiss francs sitting in Chinese banks. I expect all of Pat and Alain's WCP events to vanish anyway. It's all about the closing the deals for the events. Actual cycling is far down on the list of priorities. The amount of corruption is probably very familiar to Pat and Alain, so it's working for them for now.

The UCI has been in a good position to control most aspects of the money-making end of the sport on a worldwide basis for a while now. ASO provides the UCI's premier calendar and production infrastructure for WCP/UCI events. Everything else is moot. The phrase "It's all over but the shouting." applies here.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Too bad if these are to go, but if the local sponsors sees no opportunity perhaps its time to move on from some of these races. One way or other, the race calendar needs to change in any case.

Why does the race calendar need to change? What's wrong with País Vasco?

I'd trade keeping País Vasco for the loss of several races. Beijing, Eneco, Plouay, Vattenfall, California, Calabria, Padania, Murcía, TDU, a whole bunch of .1-rated one-day races and of course the f***ing Scheldeprijs (why can't THAT be the one with financial difficulties) to keep a race like País Vasco alive.

You can obviously buy a WT licence, and you can buy McQuaid's favour. But you can't buy love for the sport. Sadly, these are difficult times, and love for the sport doesn't outweigh the bottom line for a lot of sponsors. But shore País Vasco up through the hard times, and sponsors will come back when times are better. How many short stage races get the same kinds of crowds as País Vasco? Not many.

If the money-making exercise that is this expansion into China can't be used to maintain the sport (which would seem like a logical and valuable function for it), then what is its function? Oh yes, to fill McQuaid's pockets, as as far as he's concerned the sport is doing just f***ing wonderfully.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Why does the race calendar need to change? What's wrong with País Vasco?

Like stated there is nothing wrong with Pais Vasco, except the race can't fund itself.

Today the majority of the race calendar is locked because of historical reasons (datewise) and I think thats a real problem for the sport at the top end.

Take this weekend, we have WT teams involved in Belgium (good coverage), Switzerland, Spain, Malaysia and France (all bad coverage) and we even have some WT teams opting to go on training camps. I believe the sport could get much more out of the effort with a carefully planned calendar.

 

[theyoungest]

How many short stage races get the same kinds of crowds as País Vasco? Not many.

Well, make them pay. Problem solved.

 

[Duartista]

Like stated there is nothing wrong with Pais Vasco, except the race can't fund itself.

Today the majority of the race calendar is locked because of historical reasons (datewise) and I think thats a real problem for the sport at the top end.

Take this weekend, we have WT teams involved in Belgium (good coverage), Switzerland, Spain, Malaysia and France (all bad coverage) and we even have some WT teams opting to go on training camps. I believe the sport could get much more out of the effort with a carefully planned calendar.

Of the races on Sunday, those in Spain and Malaysia are ranked as the most important according to the UCI. Yet, the race in Belgium had by far the best line-up. This is linked to its place on the calendar, local interest and historical importance. If you mess around too much with the traditional calendar, you'll end up with a load of races with no atmosphere and little prestige, and harm the sport.

 

[Duartista]

This is a huge concern, imo. If Pais Vasco folds this year, Catalunya is bound to follow suit, next year. It's been on a financial knife edge for about half a decade.

I think there is a slight difference, politically - Catalunya is currently ruled by a moderate nationalist party, whilst the Basque Country is under a PSOE-led coalition. Is it likely that Pais Vasco would be facing this shortfall in funding if the PNV was in office?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Like stated there is nothing wrong with Pais Vasco, except the race can't fund itself.

Today the majority of the race calendar is locked because of historical reasons (datewise) and I think thats a real problem for the sport at the top end.

Take this weekend, we have WT teams involved in Belgium (good coverage), Switzerland, Spain, Malaysia and France (all bad coverage) and we even have some WT teams opting to go on training camps. I believe the sport could get much more out of the effort with a carefully planned calendar.

But the beauty of the system as it is is that you get mixed pélotons. It's not a strict first tier-second tier-third tier; the racers at second- and third-tier get to prove themselves against the top names, even if it's just on occasion. Having all the WT guys in the same place at the same time all the time just serves to make it a closed club. I see no problem with the way cycling has been structured for a long time, with the contingent "world" events that the best teams are at connected to strong national calendars in countries with enough teams to justify it, like France, Italy and Belgium. Until recently, Spain belonged there, and it's the economy of Spain rather than the bike races or the lack of riders that has been the problem.

Say that the World Tour becomes a fixed calendar and excludes the likes of the .HC and .1 races in, say, Italy. Then, not only are you preventing new Italian talent from showcasing their skills against the best, you're also preventing the Italian tifosi from seeing the top Italian cyclists for more than a small handful of races that get progressively smaller as Pat McQuaid seeks to relocate more races to the "emerging" markets (read: no market but government $$$). The Spanish races are the soft target at the moment, but I don't think for a second that McQuaid will be happy to stop there, and he and RCS haven't seen eye to eye more than a few times.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I don't buy the concept that unless you have WT teams involved in 5 races simultaneously young talents can't develop from lower tier races. Take Australia with just 1 "real" race on the calendar (and a recent addition too). Talents keep emerging from that remote place (cycling wise).

This doesn't mean we can't have any races where WT teams are involved, but I do think the frequency needs to come down and hence the changes in the calendar.

Put in another way, you like the existing model which I understand, however I don't think its sustainable not even after an economic recovery in Spain.