Garmin biggest cowards in today peloton

[LugHugger]

As lame as JV's call was, it was the right one.

Garmin don't have the top riders for a race like Flanders. For P-R, it's a different story, but they don't have a Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, or a Devolder. JV sensed the race was coming back together, and it did. As for the rest, his riders couldn't deliver. What was he supposed to do? Tell them to ride like crazy, catch the break, and then get dropped? Might as well save some energy in case they could survive.

I'm not a fan of JV but telling them not to work - AT ALL - struck me at time as being utterly negative and defeatist. Don't sit on the front - sure. But at least work with the rest of the chasers to try and bring the race back together.

This from a DS asking fans to take his 10 Points seriously? I respect his riders utterly. Atmo the sport would be better off without JV and his whinging, 'gimme' attitude.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You didn't notice Duque?

a guy weighing 58 kg doing top 20 here, shows even colombia has a future in these races

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

At least it proved one thing. On race radios there can be no arguments.
Everything fed to the riders were racing instructions in one form or another; a constant stream.
Safety? Yeah, right.

well said!!

 

[auscyclefan94]

13 Farrar +1:24
53 Hushovd +4:29
61 Haussler +8:02
108 Hammond +15:28
113 Klier +15:28

Frankly this puts things into perspective.

Agreed, I thought it was lousy that they firstly didn't have the catle up there but edidn't even try. And even when it came back, others were also looking pretty tired but they still had a go. JV and Garmin just gave up. BMC have been criticised about not actually giving it a go and in races like this when they had a lot of strong riders, I think Garmin should of just given it a go.

 

[roundabout]

Catle?

And you probably misunderstood the post you're replying to.

 

[theyoungest]

At least it proved one thing. On race radios there can be no arguments.
Everything fed to the riders were racing instructions in one form or another; a constant stream.
Safety? Yeah, right.

Sporza picked out the interesting quotes for the viewer, so who knows what they discussed in the mean time.

 

[Cobblestoned]

well said!!

Yeah, that radiohaters always find something.
It is really impressive to argue over radios, even shortly after we saw one of the most exciting races in years. This is really really impressive.

Now the whole radioissue is limited down to some JV comment. Poor effort and always easiest way for glory, to smash on some losers and selected comments.
Perhaps people should know, that these webcam clips were just some small and selected outcuts, that then were later put into livecoverage.
And sometimes even the best rider and tactical genius don't have the overview any more.
If some Garminriders did something stupid there behind and on their own, some people would have smashed on them, too.
Even if a Garminrider had won, he and JV would have done everything wrong.
This is clear as ice.
This whole Garmin- and JV-bashing has taken a frightening and unhealty development now, too.
Only topped by sending RS to hell.

Just sayin. But of course I am just an cycling-loving none-hating idiot.
The more time I spend here - the more I get clearer about the assumption, that this forum in anglophonic-"style", might not be the right place for me.

That became even clearer after that not further pursued RS issue after Panne - even after some complains and reports. This was somehow one of the last WTF moments.
This is not just about RS or Garmin or whatever - this is all about style and decency in general. Might also often happen that people call you an idiot just because you did or said something correctly.

I'll just sleep about it, but I think - that was it then.
My masochistic core is not that big, so that I would stand this any longer.
This is all way too negative attitude here about everything.

Sadly not enough people here that make some sense, think positive and have some style.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I agree we don't know what else was said. But what we did hear, without exception, were all conformations to me that I want the communication from the car to the riders gone. Everything from the boring "next up is the ...berg and then the ...berg" to "up front are ... and ...." to "don't do any more work".

Riders who know the route well, riders who can keep an overview of the race themselves, and riders who can figure out the best race strategy for themselves after 200k [and teams that can organize themselves internally during a race so they can keep the internal communication lines going] all deserve an advantage in a race. THAT's what distinguishes a complete cyclist from an almost-there one.

I wasn't so much upset with JV for giving the probably only sensible instruction to the leftovers of a disappointing team. It wasn't what he said, it was that he said it. It was that he instructed his riders what to do, in no uncertain terms. Total control from the DS car, by the good man himself. After all the race radios "are not for strategy" PR bull**** he made me swallow, I want it even more now.

I hope the UCI will replay that moment over and over if he ever sits down around a table with them to talk radios.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I agree we don't know what else was said. But what we did hear, without exception, were all conformations to me that I want the communication from the car to the riders gone. Everything from the boring "next up is the ...berg and then the ...berg" to "up front are ... and ...." to "don't do any more work".

Riders who know the route well, riders who can keep an overview of the race themselves, and riders who can figure out the best race strategy for themselves after 200k [and teams that can organize themselves internally during a race so they can keep the internal communication lines going] all deserve an advantage in a race. THAT's what distinguishes a complete cyclist from an almost-there one.

I wasn't so much upset with JV for giving the probably only sensible instruction to the leftovers of a disappointing team. It wasn't what he said, it was that he said it. It was that he instructed his riders what to do, in no uncertain terms. Total control from the DS car, by the good man himself. After all the race radios "are not for strategy" PR bull**** he made me swallow, I want it even more now.

I hope the UCI will replay that moment over and over if he ever sits down around a table with them to talk radios.

This whole issue is nothing more than "Früher war alles besser!", with nostalgic hope that something, whatever it may be, will be better.
You know, if these radios save(d) ONLY ONE life - then normally discussion should be over. This "safety" is not a homicide-argument. This is just one of the most dangerous sports one can do.

There are many people out there, who use some doping-deaths just to justify that whole anti-doping hype and that whole growing anti-doping-industry.
So why are radiosupporters not allowed to also use the "safety" aspect ?

Tactically, radios are just another part of a developing sports, a devoloping world. And there is no rider that just rides faster because DS tells him over radio.
Some should care more about people or kiddies that can't live no more without having 3 handys, nearly grown together with parts of body, or some internetpeople that can no more decide between real life and internet-matrix.

If you don't like DSs giving orders, then argue something, but not about radios. Like Bruyneel said, and that was somehow honest, they can give orders anyway - even without any secret communication techniques - more old school, one could call that.

Go - figure.

The point, and biggest "problem" or developement in these days is, and not just in cycling or sports - people are becoming more and more ironed or adapted.
Just swimming with the stream - everything neutralized. Crouch and nod.
I generally more and more miss people like Senna, Hinault, Cantona, Oliver Kahn etc. he said "balls, we need some balls".

To make it short:
There are not enough people that just say "f** you, dear DS. I'll just pull together with Cancellara now and go for win in style, instead of putting any shame on my name !"

 

[theswordsman]

When they showed the Saxo car early on, the DS was driving with one hand, holding the radio mic with another, and reading the map on the steering wheel, all while giving instructions. That ruined the safety angle for me, but when they showed the car as Nuyens was winning, the driver had both hands off the wheel, watching TV, and high fived and hugged with 2 arms, all while the car was moving. It was crazy.

 

[flicker]

I think Vaughters weapons were not there, he is living on to fight another day.
With all this wireless stuff, do they have their SRM and heart rate monitors mainframed into Vaughters car? It is obvious Garmin sucked, so why even try?

 

[flicker]

Yeah, that radiohaters always find something.
It is really impressive to argue over radios, even shortly after we saw one of the most exciting races in years. This is really really impressive.

Now the whole radioissue is limited down to some JV comment. Poor effort and always easiest way for glory, to smash on some losers and selected comments.
Perhaps people should know, that these webcam clips were just some small and selected outcuts, that then were later put into livecoverage.
And sometimes even the best rider and tactical genius don't have the overview any more.
If some Garminriders did something stupid there behind and on their own, some people would have smashed on them, too.
Even if a Garminrider had won, he and JV would have done everything wrong.
This is clear as ice.
This whole Garmin- and JV-bashing has taken a frightening and unhealty development now, too.
Only topped by sending RS to hell.

Just sayin. But of course I am just an cycling-loving none-hating idiot.
The more time I spend here - the more I get clearer about the assumption, that this forum in anglophonic-"style", might not be the right place for me.

That became even clearer after that not further pursued RS issue after Panne - even after some complains and reports. This was somehow one of the last WTF moments.
This is not just about RS or Garmin or whatever - this is all about style and decency in general. Might also often happen that people call you an idiot just because you did or said something correctly.

I'll just sleep about it, but I think - that was it then.
My masochistic core is not that big, so that I would stand this any longer.
This is all way too negative attitude here about everything.

Sadly not enough people here that make some sense, think positive and have some style.

I agree. There is some cancer here, some anarchy since the last of Lance.
I see, hate RS, HTC Vaughters. Please, do not forget UHC, they are riding in Europe also. I mean wewe the haters also hating the former CSC(also an American Co.) ? I see a pattern here.....

 

[NickBVK]

Garmin have to win Roubaix to save their season

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Garmin have to win Roubaix to save their season

Save it from what? High Expectations?

For a while I was thinking about Garmin's lack of success a structural issue of the team (tactics, DS'ing, chiefs/indians), but now I'm leaning to mindset focusing on a set of individual failures.

There is disappointment, but they've had positive results. There is also always potential, which is more than many other teams can cling to.

 

[barn yard]

Garmin have to win Roubaix to save their season

and they will need that 1% chance to do that

at this point they would be lucky to get one rider in the top 20 at PR

so much for the classics super team

 

[Anonymous]

As the day has gone by, I can understand more JV's instruction. I think the issue was that we as fans were watching the race go up the road in a way most of us didn't want to see, and at that exact time, we hear JV telling his riders to quit riding and settle for whatever ended up happening instead of taking an active part in it. If Farrar was toast (and he couldn't hang on the climbs if you were watching--he came back after them), then they had no option. I think Thor rode kind of a stupid race. The reality is that they were just not that strong. Missing two of their best classics riders would be hard for anyone.

Then after he said that, we saw BMC do what nobody else had the balls to do, and the contrast was striking. In reality, Garmin had no chance to do that, and Farrar would have burned himself out if he had done more.

The issue to me is how poorly the team rode up to that point.

Past that, I am a BMC fan now. They and Sky did a great job today.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Hushovd may be the least impressive or deserving World Champion in recent memory.

 

[jaylew]

I think it's a bit early to say that.

 

[richwagmn]

anyone heard what vaughters said during the race?? Glad they got dropped like sacks of candy towards the end with that attitude.

edit: pls change topic name into cowards

If Garmin doesn't get some good results this year, JV needs to be fired. No excuses.

 

[danjo007]

At least it proved one thing. On race radios there can be no arguments.
Everything fed to the riders were racing instructions in one form or another; a constant stream.
Safety? Yeah, right.

+1
and JV is a sad person indeed.

 

[Ferminal]

Hushovd may be the least impressive or deserving World Champion in recent memory.

18 months ago no one would have suggested Thor could learn something from Cuddles on that matter.

How times change.

To be fair though it doesn't seem like Thor has been in super form at any stage this year. Looked at his best during Tirreno.

For his sake I hope he can find something for Sunday.

 

[skidmark]

Hushovd may be the least impressive or deserving World Champion in recent memory.

Dude, his biggest race of the season has not even happened yet, and if he does anything in that and wins something equal on prestige with the Eneco Tour any time before October, then he will be more impressive than Ballan was in 09. You're being a little quick on the draw, is what I'm saying.

 

[benpounder]

Precisely.

Sending your sprinters to the front at that point, particularly when neither are feeling great, would be suicide.

It is not that JV made that call as much as how cavalier he was in making it.

It would be interesting to hear the conversations between Vaughters and his riders before he made that call.

 

[Race Radio]

Hushovd may be the least impressive or deserving World Champion in recent memory.

Igor Astarloa

 

[benpounder]

As the day has gone by, I can understand more JV's instruction. I think the issue was that we as fans were watching the race go up the road in a way most of us didn't want to see...

That is probably the smartest analysis of the day that I have seen.