Garmin biggest cowards in today peloton

[masking_agent]

they truly are "Beyond the Peloton" as they are so out of sight

 

[Benotti69]

All the hating on JV and no one mentions the Lotto DS telling Gilbert to ride his best TT ever to stay away to the finish(8km) and he sits up 5 secs later

Quickstep DS ffuucked up bigger than JV yesterday. 2 great riders and both in top 4 and no win. Bigger fail than Garmin.

Leopard DS ffuucked up not feeding Canc so he didn't bonk.

DS are overrated in races. Cant be in a riders minds, hearts and more importantly their legs.

seems to be lots of blinkered hating directed at JV.

 

[Anonymous]

What, you wouldn't take his fashion or grooming tips?

I bet he sculpts his pubic hair.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

1. Up until this season, you could make an argument that they have made chicken salad out of chicke sh*t. But even still for a team that truly does not even have one big win and has mastered the art of second and third place, they get too much attention.

Again, you are conflating what are two distinct issues.

Their results last year were pretty good, when you look at their squad. They had 27 wins last year, including some decent races although no really top tier ones. That's not underperforming their resources.

This year, they have 10 wins already. They've underperformed so far in the Classics, but have still racked up more wins than some Pro Tour teams managed all last year. Their form has been uneven, but in overall terms they aren't underperforming.

They do get more publicity than they earn with their results, but that's a result of them having a less amateurish approach to the PR side of things than most cycling teams. It's the teams who are amateurish in this regard you should be criticising, not one which actually has its act together. It's a similar situation with Sky. They got a lot of publicity last year, and underperformed as compared with the resulting hype, but they didn't actually do badly in terms of the real level of their squad.

Garmin are a good team. No team with Hushovd, Haussler, Farrar, Martin, Hesjedal, Le Mevel, Vande Velde etc is going to be less than good. But they are not a great team. Not a single one of their leaders is the best man in the peloton at his particular specialty. And their results over the last season and a bit have been perfectly consistent with that.

 

[Astana1]

Again, you are conflating what are two distinct issues.

Their results last year were pretty good, when you look at their squad. They had 27 wins last year, including some decent races although no really top tier ones. That's not underperforming their resources.

This year, they have 10 wins already. They've underperformed so far in the Classics, but have still racked up more wins than some Pro Tour teams managed all last year. Their form has been uneven, but in overall terms they aren't underperforming.

They do get more publicity than they earn with their results, but that's a result of them having a less amateurish approach to the PR side of things than most cycling teams. It's the teams who are amateurish in this regard you should be criticising, not one which actually has its act together. It's a similar situation with Sky. They got a lot of publicity last year, and underperformed as compared with the resulting hype, but they didn't actually do badly in terms of the real level of their squad.

Garmin are a good team. No team with Hushovd, Haussler, Farrar, Martin, Hesjedal, Le Mevel, Vande Velde etc is going to be less than good. But they are not a great team. Not a single one of their leaders is the best man in the peloton at his particular specialty. And their results over the last season and a bit have been perfectly consistent with that.

So you acknowledge that they are not a great team, you acknowledge their level of publicity. You also acknowledge that they probably get more publicity than a team of their achievements ought to receive.

How exactly are you disagreeing with my assertion that Garmin is the team in this sport that we hear too much about given their record of defeat?

As individuals none of them are the best, but as a team and make no mistake, this is a team sport ,they should have excellent depth on paper. But it's clear that they are not as strong as they ought to be on paper at least.

Surely you can make that concession. Vaughters has failed to get the team ready for what really should be the most productive part of their season as a whole.

They are not a great team because they lack the winning chemistry and that starts at the very top.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

So you acknowledge that they are not a great team, you acknowledge their level of publicity. You also acknowledge that they probably get more publicity than a team of their achievements ought to receive.

How exactly are you disagreeing with my assertion that Garmin is the team in this sport that we hear too much about given their record of defeat?

I'm disagreeing with your assertion that Garmin underperform their resources, and your confusion of the public relations issue with that claim.

I'm not at all disagreeing with on whether Garmin are a great team, nor am I disagreeing with you that they get more publicity than other teams of similar quality. I do not however a problem with them having a competent approach to public relations and would prefer that more teams got their fingers out when it comes to raising their profiles.

 

[Astana1]

I'm disagreeing with your assertion that Garmin underperform their resources, and your confusion of the public relations issue with that claim.

I'm not at all disagreeing with on whether Garmin are a great team, nor am I disagreeing with you that they get more publicity than other teams of similar quality. I do not however a problem with them having a competent approach to public relations and would prefer that more teams got their fingers out when it comes to raising their profiles.

If I were a DS and I saw this year's roster and looked at the results thus far I would be gravely dissappointed. Garmin has gone beyond being the chippy underdogs of 2008.

They are in big boy territory now but they haven't delivered big boy results.

Garmin leads pro cycling in excuse making.

 

[sublimit]

Apart from a couple of domestiques early on and midrace Garmin weren't exactly riding anyway.
The main riders were sitting on and then told to stop riding!? OK it turns out they were blown but its negative stuff from Vaughters hence all the stick not hate.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

If I were a DS and I saw this year's roster and looked at the results thus far I would be gravely dissappointed. Garmin has gone beyond being the chippy underdogs of 2008.

They are in big boy territory now but they haven't delivered big boy results.

Garmin leads pro cycling in excuse making.

I'd point you towards this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=2011

Which shows that Garmin are coming second in CQ rankings so far this year. Or this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=9999

Which shows that over the last 12 months, they are coming first in CQ rankings, but I can see that mere facts aren't going to have much currency in this discussion.

 

[max_powers]

If Garmin doesn't get some good results this year, JV needs to be fired. No excuses.

Just shave off those ridiculous sideburns, and the team will rally.

 

[Christian]

I'd point you towards this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=2011

Thanks, I have been looking for this!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'd point you towards this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=2011

Which shows that Garmin are coming second in CQ rankings so far this year. Or this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=9999

Which shows that over the last 12 months, they are coming first in CQ rankings, but I can see that mere facts aren't going to have much currency in this discussion.

cqrankings, who cares they are rankings made up by a website. nothing official. I swea if you go to a sponsor and say but hey we lead the cqrankings they will laugh straight in your face.

obviously when having 30 riders and sprinters and riding on 3 or 4 different races at the same time you are going to get much points, but it's quantity

 

[Eric8-A]

In the first part of the new Beyond the Peloton series where they talk about the merger, it says that Garmin's main focus is about testing and not winning races. I think they should switch that around. Maybe then they can do well.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Garmin leads pro cycling in excuse making.

Leif Hoste?

 

[Astana1]

I'd point you towards this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=2011

Which shows that Garmin are coming second in CQ rankings so far this year. Or this:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp?year=9999

Which shows that over the last 12 months, they are coming first in CQ rankings, but I can see that mere facts aren't going to have much currency in this discussion.

Utterly ridiculous. Cq lol. Gamin is the best team in my campaign in PCM right now too!

 

[maltiv]

Garmin-Cervelo apparently just had a team meeting where some of the guys were complaining about their "let's see who we will go for" tactic. Now they have decided to back Hushovd 100% for P-R.

 

[Lyds97]

cqrankings, who cares they are rankings made up by a website. nothing official. I swea if you go to a sponsor and say but hey we lead the cqrankings they will laugh straight in your face.

I dunno about that. If Dave Brailsford's Cycle Sport interview is anything to go by then some of the team bosses put a lot of store in cq rankings.

Agree with your main point though, compared to plenty of teams - even Saxo - Garmin have def started the season with a whimper.

 

[ergmonkey]

Agree with your main point though, compared to plenty of teams - even Saxo - Garmin have def started the season with a whimper.

Has Saxo really been so bad? Contador has two stage race wins and Nuyens has a Classic and a semi-classic. Haedo produced a somewhat surprising sprint win over some very big names at Tirreno-Adriatico, too.

Admittedly, they haven't been the most prolific, but the quality looks very good. One big Classic and every reason to expect a huge stage race win. Plenty of other top teams have been quieter.

 

[kurtinsc]

I dunno about that. If Dave Brailsford's Cycle Sport interview is anything to go by then some of the team bosses put a lot of store in cq rankings.

Agree with your main point though, compared to plenty of teams - even Saxo - Garmin have def started the season with a whimper.

They've started with a whimper in the major classics.

But they are 5th in wins and 2nd in CQ ranking so far (behind Radioshack suprisingly). The won the TDU, a T-A stage and several minor stages/races, and podiums in four major stages (P-N/T-A), the overall of Catalunya and Gent-Wevelgem.

Perhaps we have expectations a bit too high?

 

[ergmonkey]

Garmin-Cervelo apparently just had a team meeting where some of the guys were complaining about their "let's see who we will go for" tactic. Now they have decided to back Hushovd 100% for P-R.

Interesting. Haussler and Farrar clearly deserve to be subordinate to Hushovd this year at Roubaix. I wonder if part of the "all for Thor" plan might not involve putting Hammond or Klier in a break and seeing whether that can just stay away or hold on when caught by the real leaders, though? Let's hope Thor can hold a better line through the corners when he's dead tired this year, too...

 

[maltiv]

Interesting. Haussler and Farrar clearly deserve to be subordinate to Hushovd this year at Roubaix. I wonder if part of the "all for Thor" plan might not involve putting Hammond or Klier in a break and seeing whether that can just stay away or hold on when caught by the real leaders, though? Let's hope Thor can hold a better line through the corners when he's dead tired this year, too...

Well obviously they should have people in the most important breakaways, but in my opinion Hammond should be saved as he'll be Thor's most important domestique in the final. Haussler just doesn't have the form so he should perhaps join some early attacks.

 

[greenedge]

Garmin should have the same amount of domestiques as riders who could actually win. Their leaders are strong but then get isolated. BMC had 7 out of 8 riders near the end and Kroon broke his collarbone. Hope they go well at paris- roubaix

 

[Lyds97]

Has Saxo really been so bad? Contador has two stage race wins and Nuyens has a Classic and a semi-classic. Haedo produced a somewhat surprising sprint win over some very big names at Tirreno-Adriatico, too.

Admittedly, they haven't been the most prolific, but the quality looks very good. One big Classic and every reason to expect a huge stage race win. Plenty of other top teams have been quieter.

Yeah i know, guess I was basing it on what I was expecting them to have achieved by this point (very little) as opposed to the results they have generated. Much better than expected (at least as they stand at the moment).

They've started with a whimper in the major classics.

But they are 5th in wins and 2nd in CQ ranking so far (behind Radioshack suprisingly). The won the TDU, a T-A stage and several minor stages/races, and podiums in four major stages (P-N/T-A), the overall of Catalunya and Gent-Wevelgem.

Perhaps we have expectations a bit too high?

Perhaps, but, as others have said, with the calibre of riders they have this year it was only natural for expectations to be pretty high.

Haussler second in RVV and MSR in '09 with every reason to think he'd have a return to form this year, and a Hushovd who claimed to be turning his back on sprinting in favour of peaking for the classics - I think our expectations were right to be high!

 

[JA.Tri]

multi skilled... I don't think so

When they showed the Saxo car early on, the DS was driving with one hand, holding the radio mic with another, and reading the map on the steering wheel, all while giving instructions. That ruined the safety angle for me, but when they showed the car as Nuyens was winning, the driver had both hands off the wheel, watching TV, and high fived and hugged with 2 arms, all while the car was moving. It was crazy.

Developing the theme further.

Why is that DSs insist(?) on doing everything, and on the edge at that. As you point out: they drive one handed, navigate, issue instructions, celebrate and oh lest I forget... I guess calculate/formulate strategy on the run.

From a safety point of view FAIL!

Also of import though is how on earth can A DS expect to do all of those tasks reasonably well? Especially the formulation of optimum startegy finergy strategy.

I have never understood why all these tasks were not divided amongst the staff in the car. Surely that would allow the DS to do what he does best and devote all of his resources to that task.

 

[ansimi]

Garmin-Cervelo apparently just had a team meeting where some of the guys were complaining about their "let's see who we will go for" tactic. Now they have decided to back Hushovd 100% for P-R.

The "let's see who we will go for" tactic seems sensible in lots of race situations but Hushovd should always have been the undisputed leader for P-R. He should have been able to choose his support riders too.

Has anybody seen post-Flanders interviews with Hushovd or with van Petegem? I'd be interested in what they have to say.

At least Garmin is unlikely to be as terrible at P-R this year than last year when they couldn't get a rider in under the time limit.