Another horrible start to a grand tour for Garmin. Talansky losing almost four minutes. I don't know what happened to him apart from seeing him off the back of the bunch a long way from the finish. Can kiss any podium chances goodbye already. Omega's Kwiatkowski also lost almost 3 minutes as well.
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Garmin Disasters
- Thread starter movingtarget
- Start date
Don't know exactly what happened to Kwiatkowski, but Talansky had a mechanical/flat within the final 3 km. Both received the same time as the bulk of the peloton.
http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2014/us/classifications.html
They finished 168th and 173rd on the stage.
http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2014/us/classifications.html
They finished 168th and 173rd on the stage.
Can someone delete this thread as then information is incorrect and the thread is pointless. Thanks.
movingtarget said:
No need. There was a lot of confusion and it was talked about a bit in the race thread. You did not have bad information. You had the original information which was subsequently updated.
The title of the thread is wrong, though, as Garmin had a podium on the stage as well as not losing any time with their GC contender.
UpTheRoad said:No need. There was a lot of confusion and it was talked about a bit in the race thread. You did not have bad information. You had the original information which was subsequently updated.
The title of the thread is wrong, though, as Garmin had a podium on the stage as well as not losing any time with their GC contender.
Yes it seems the disaster might be for Omega and maybe GreenEdge as Gerrans would have had a good chance in today's stage as well. Gerran's will have to be sore in more ways than one.
What if I changed the title to "Tour Disasters"? It actually might be useful to have a thread to discuss and post information from various disasters different riders and teams might have.
Like with Kwiat, what happened with him?
Like with Kwiat, what happened with him?
Afrank said:
Would be nice with a Tour disaster topic.
Kwiat probably got held up by the crash yesterday or stopped to check on Cav.
Well we the spectators can again thank the Garmin Boys today, without them we might have had a damp squib. They turned it on big time 30ks from the end and reduced the bunch to 30 guys behind a monster effort from Slagter. I think Talansky felt good and wanted to see if potential rivals for the top 10 could be dropped. To bad that when Slagter parked no one attacked. Sky came back and put on a false rythm and the bunch was back to 60/70. But without the Garmins the bunch would have been 130 at 30ks. If you look at the GC, they are directly responsible for the fact that beyon the 78th place guys are 10 minutes away !
So thank you Garmin, once more. You are one of the teams with an aggressive spirit, like the green boys (and the brown ones lately), who brings lots to the race.
Edit : For example I noticed that both Rolland and Pinot weren't in the original group when Slagter couldn't push it anymore. Had another team supported the effort, (couln't probably) or had some favorites attacked, we could have seen some TOP 10 candidates some minutes away tonight !
So thank you Garmin, once more. You are one of the teams with an aggressive spirit, like the green boys (and the brown ones lately), who brings lots to the race.
Edit : For example I noticed that both Rolland and Pinot weren't in the original group when Slagter couldn't push it anymore. Had another team supported the effort, (couln't probably) or had some favorites attacked, we could have seen some TOP 10 candidates some minutes away tonight !
Too bad neither Dan or Ryder is here. Having one of them working for Talansky could make today's stage looking a lot more different.
I feel Talansky is slightly undersupported. I expected Howes to be good in this kind of stages but he finished so far back... was that because of doing some work? I turned the TV on when Slagter was in front already.
I really regret Hesjedal is not doing TdF this year. If he was here in decent form, I feel he would add a lot to the show.
I feel Talansky is slightly undersupported. I expected Howes to be good in this kind of stages but he finished so far back... was that because of doing some work? I turned the TV on when Slagter was in front already.
I really regret Hesjedal is not doing TdF this year. If he was here in decent form, I feel he would add a lot to the show.
Anderis said:
Agreed, had we had another teammate to keep pulling after Slagter was spent until the top of that hill, maybe the Pinots, Rollands and others wouldn't have managed to come back and we could be looking at gaps from up to a minute or 2 after the Fifteenth/twentiest rider. It was well tried from the Garmins, but clearly the team feels weaker than last year (a shame as Talansky seems to be maturing and growing into his role.)
I think too much strength went into Giro-Vuelta and that's why Talansky seems to be a little bit undersupported. One of the three: Hesjedal, Martin, Cardoso should really be in the TdF roster with Howes or King doing the Giro. Danielson is well of form as well and it's contributing to the problem. However, it's still much better squad climbing-wise than what we were seeing from Garmin over years in GTs. It will be interesting to see how will Slagter and Acevedo do in the next stages. But I was really hoping for a stronger TdF roster when Vaughters said last year that GC in stage races would become team's main priority. The potential is there but some riders are off form and others are targetting other GTs and that's not good when Talansky looks more promising than ever.
fantomas said:Would be nice with a Tour disaster topic.
Kwiat probably got held up by the crash yesterday or stopped to check on Cav.
Yes, Kwiat and Trentin were close to the back and stopped to help Cav
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96ldgjS_kw
movingtarget said:
Don't think the thread is pointless, we're bound to need one called Garmin disaster again very soon. They seem to suffer race ending crashes as much as every other team put together. Now that serial crasher Vande Velde has retired, the rest of the team have stepped up to the plate in a big. way. Seriously, Vaughters should send them all on a course of a week of rough and tumble Belgian amateur/semi pro races in the rain, in protective motorbike clothing if necessary, until they all know how to navigate street furniture and hold their place in the peloton without falling over.
6 days of the race behind us and the first conclusion can be, that Garmin are doing great job to protect Talansky and keep him as safe as it is possible so far.
Some monster work was done by all those flat guys, Bauer, Navardauskas, Langeveld and Vansummeren especially. The team was great on cobbles, it's a shame Talansky lost control on one of the cobbled sectors, because it could have been more successfull day. They're visible in front of the peleton often. I think they're as determined to keep their GC guy out of trouble as never before. I'm impressed.
It's a shame their climbing team doesn't seem to be as strong as their flat team, because it limits their chance to play some of their aggressive strategies. I wonder if Acevedo is OK, he fell down yesterday and finished last. Lost quite a lot of time today as well.
Some monster work was done by all those flat guys, Bauer, Navardauskas, Langeveld and Vansummeren especially. The team was great on cobbles, it's a shame Talansky lost control on one of the cobbled sectors, because it could have been more successfull day. They're visible in front of the peleton often. I think they're as determined to keep their GC guy out of trouble as never before. I'm impressed.
It's a shame their climbing team doesn't seem to be as strong as their flat team, because it limits their chance to play some of their aggressive strategies. I wonder if Acevedo is OK, he fell down yesterday and finished last. Lost quite a lot of time today as well.
It's a strange thing to say about Garmin, a team that has sometimes seemed to be made up of strong climbing domestiques with no leader, but they could really do with signing a few strong climbing domestiques.
Anderis said:
you have to understand, if Dan or Ryder were in the race, they want to be the team leader not the supporter for a newbie just joined pro two years ago.
Martin is not a GC leader, Hesjedal wouldn't be able to challenge at the Tour and certainly not after riding the Giro already.
Talansky has earned leadership over those riders.
Talansky has earned leadership over those riders.
luckyboy said:
earned from what? a stupid non important dauphine race? LOL Mind you Hesjedal is a GT winner. And Dan is going for the GC in the Giro. Even like you claimed he earned the leadership, so what? It does not mean these riders are willing to ride for him. Sometimes team rank and politics play a role in the real life.
Garmin has a much smaller budget than most of the pro tour teams. Given they just extended Talansky's contract may indicate they've signed a new sponsor and will be able to spend more money in the future. I think the size of their budget, more than anything else, has limited their ability to sign bigger players for the mountains. They've been going the young rider route recently, mostly because it is a far less expensive way to operate a team. I applaud the fact they've been able to win a grand tour and a monument on their budget.
Here's a totally unsubstantiated rumor: Garmin and Cannondale to merge.
We know Cannondale's parent who owns a bunch of other bike brands is in cost-cutting mode.
We know Cannondale's parent who owns a bunch of other bike brands is in cost-cutting mode.
I don't think lack of climbing domestiques is really an issue here. In theory, they could line-up a strong team supporting Talansky in the mountain. The problem is, that's only in theory and circumstances don't play into their favour.
- Dennis could be an asset in ToC form, but apparently, he is not.
- Danielson could be an asset, but he is way off form this year for some reason.
- Cardoso could be an asset, but it was decided for him to do Giro-Vuelta.
- Slagter would be a big asset if he is in March-April form and Acevedo proved to be good in TdS.
Hesjedal always seemed to be a team-player. I don't think he would have any trouble with accepting the situation.
But apparently, Garmin wanted to have a good team in all 3 GTs, not only in TdF. In hindsight, they would be better with Cardoso at TdF and Howes or King at Giro, but I think it's lack of form from Danielson that complicates things. To have a Danielson who could climb with 20 best riders in the mountain would be more than enough here.
I do think it went a bit wrong in the planning, though. I think the team would be better with:
Giro: Martin, Slagter, Howes
TdF: Talansky, Hesjedal (cobbles, he did great on them in 2010!), Cardoso, Acevedo
To have Danielson, Dennis and Morton in reasonable shape somewhere would probably has helped too.
- Dennis could be an asset in ToC form, but apparently, he is not.
- Danielson could be an asset, but he is way off form this year for some reason.
- Cardoso could be an asset, but it was decided for him to do Giro-Vuelta.
- Slagter would be a big asset if he is in March-April form and Acevedo proved to be good in TdS.
Hesjedal always seemed to be a team-player. I don't think he would have any trouble with accepting the situation.
But apparently, Garmin wanted to have a good team in all 3 GTs, not only in TdF. In hindsight, they would be better with Cardoso at TdF and Howes or King at Giro, but I think it's lack of form from Danielson that complicates things. To have a Danielson who could climb with 20 best riders in the mountain would be more than enough here.
I do think it went a bit wrong in the planning, though. I think the team would be better with:
Giro: Martin, Slagter, Howes
TdF: Talansky, Hesjedal (cobbles, he did great on them in 2010!), Cardoso, Acevedo
To have Danielson, Dennis and Morton in reasonable shape somewhere would probably has helped too.
maxmartin said:you have to understand, if Dan or Ryder were in the race, they want to be the team leader not the supporter for a newbie just joined pro two years ago.
well, he just won the Dauphiné, and came 10th in the Tour last year.
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