Gas6?

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May 26, 2011
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Thomas Frei retweeting about this again this morning....

Kimmage / L'Equipe - you know what you need to do..!!
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Merckx index said:
I'll of course defer to your actual experience with the disease, but according to all the sources I have seen, it requires a single annual treatment. The disease is controlled, not eliminated. E.g., this is what it says in the link provided by Cycle Chic. I believe Froome has also been quoted as saying he's treated every six months.

Do you disagree? Were you able to get by on a single treatment, for all time?

It makes a difference, because if it requires an annual treatment, then the antigens that inactivate hemoglobin may be present in low levels in the body at all times, and there is the possibility of continual natural stimulation of EPO synthesis. This is purely speculative on my part, I have no evidence for it and it would involve EPO synthesis over-compensating for any depression of hemoglobin levels. But given Froome's hard to explain performances and his bout with the disease, it seems worth considering.

However, a correction. Bilharzia does not reduce red cell number, according to a link provided earlier in this thread. It just inactivates hemoglobin. IOW, the disease manifests with the same number of red cells, but carrying less hemoglobin and therefore less effective as oxygen transport. So while a normal HT might be, say, 45, and the associated Hb level 15, bilharzia might reduce Hb to 13 while not affecting HT.

As for the gas6 story, very interesting discussion, but in the absence of any reason to believe that Froome might have been using it, I haven't put much attention on it (even before KB's excellent dissection of the linked article on effects in mice). I think it's unlikely this would be used for performance enhancement. But Clinic discussion at its finest, IMO. Kudos.
It's a one off treatment.

If people live in an endemic area and are thus likely to be re-exposed, then they can get re-treatment each year. But that is to treat re-infection.

For someone like Froome, one off treatment is standard.
Check the CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/treatment.html
Safe and effective medication is available for treatment of both urinary and intestinal schistosomiasis. Praziquantel, a prescription medication, is taken for 1-2 days to treat infections caused by all Schistosoma species.

African forms (outside Senegal) are almost always treated with a single dose or two doses separated by a few hours.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Cycle Chic said:
Found it - in the video by NOS Froome states that the blood test at the end of 2010 showed he had Bilharzia. He says he has to have tablets EVERY 6 MONTHS AND ITS PROBABLY NEVER CURED. So is he telling fibs ??

scroll forward to 10minutes 30 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o
From my perspective (I treat people with this regularly), this makes no sense. I can post photos of my text books or suggest you read about it on either:
1. http://www.uptodate.com
2. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/treatment.html

It is nearly always cured and the ones that might take a little longer to cure are more likely in West Africa or Asia.
 
May 13, 2009
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Alex76 said:
Thomas Frei retweeting about this again this morning....

Kimmage / L'Equipe - you know what you need to do..!!
IIRC from reading the study on mice, they had both GAS6 and rGAS6. Is there any way one could detect elevated levels of that stuff (maybe through longitudinal testing) and/or distinguish the two forms? Is this stuff tested for at all? (I presume the answer is no, but maybe the Cologne lab is ahead of the curve, here).
 
May 26, 2011
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Google Translation of the earlier mentoned article.

(loving the translation about Hinault and his farts....)

GAS6, the new molecule doped?

Monday, July 15, a tweet (since deleted) repented of Swiss rider Thomas Frei (formerly BMC) had the effect of a stone into a pond: "Hey, guys, you know GAS6 - Growth Arrest - Specific 6 ? ". In the process, a user launched this molecule was used successfully in the 2013 Giro. Then a rumor widely reported, announced that Geert Leinders, the doctor "fired" by SKY last year (because of its implications in the doping network Rabobank), had worked on the development of person GAS6 university Leuven. It did not take more for this product, previously completely unknown to anti-doping, is the star of the day. Marc Kluszczinski, subject expert, author of the "on the front of doping" in Sport and Life magazine, had the extreme kindness to write an overview of products that are widely circulated in the nose and platoons beard controls.

Marc Kluszczynski

EPO is not what it was: the new test maiia (Membrane Assisted Isoform Immunoassays) appeared in early can detect the use of micro-doses. It is an effective addition to the EPO biosimilars. It's fast and easy to use (20 minutes for 56 samples), while the first test of the year 2000 called for three days and was expensive, its interpretation remains difficult (remember samples Lance Armstrong in the Tour de Suisse 2001 and DL 2002). Surprisingly this year's TdF, runners returned to the ranks such Alberto Contador (attacks not have the same bite!) And Andy Schleck or Joaquim Rodriguez, all less sparkling than usual.

And autologous blood transfusions? Still undetectable, but the risk is big to make make a pocket during a rest day on the Tour, with it seems, who rode around the OCLAESP trucks, motor homes and hotels. But it would have been ordered not to trigger an earthquake during the 100th edition, filled with happiness to millions of viewers with its unforgettable landscapes, accompanied by no less memorable explanations. Interesting times of economic crisis, the Tour is traveling the French who can not go on holiday! We forget the crisis, the news and the Tour continues in an atmosphere poisoned, so much so that Bernard Hinault does not stop farting cables. We should stop talking about doping in cycling! But the start of Chris Froome in the climbs Ax-3-Domaines and Ventoux, its too great superiority over its rivals, its not far from those estimated years Pantani and Armstrong powers, the lack of open communication its athletic director, we fear the worst.

Better than the TB 500 and EPO together!

Yes, new products exist. Some are on the rise, such as growth factors. They are already included in the category of S.2 substances banned by WADA, but often treated as single vitamins by their users. On the eve of the 2011 Tour, Wim Vansevenant, then driver from Omega Pharma-Lotto, was arrested by the Belgian customs, the parcel TB 500 has been intercepted. The TB 500 is a peptide of 43 amino acids which acts on muscle development and vascularity of muscle, resulting in improved yield stress. Although these properties were observed in animals that experience, Dr. Alberto Beltran Nino already arrested him in March 2012 in Madrid airport when Skype operation of the Guardia Civil. In his luggage, had been found AICAR and TB 500.

AICAR and precisely? It is detectable and would not be effective alone. It should be combined with agonists of PPAR δ and γ that direct metabolism to use fat (GW 501516) molecules that are dangerous to the point that the AMA has taken care to warn of its dangers cheats last March. That has not stopped seven cyclists getting caught in March, six South American and Russian Valery Kaykov (RUSVELO).

But it was found better than the EPO and the TB 500 combined! Growth factor-6 GAS (Growth-arrest specific-6) promotes the secretion of endogenous EPO and vascularity. Studies have even shown in 2008 that the GAS-6 could replace the administration of EPO in anemic patients. You can bet without risk that the substance is already used in professional sports, not just cycling. And as always, we invoke the excuse of altitude to explain the increase in red blood cells. Poor blood passport!

Other options currently exist to increase the level of red blood cells without the use of exogenous EPO and without attracting the attention of radars (one is located in a well doping recovery smoothness doping). Inhibitors of HIF 1α prolyl hydroxylase mimic a state of hypoxia in the body and are secreted endogenous EPO. And how not to speak of thyroid hormones on 10000m by Mo Farah and Galen Rupp who made the first and second at the London Olympics? These hormones are not on the WADA list, have a lipolytic effect, stimulating and induce secretion of EPO! And if that was the secret of SKY, their "marginal gains"?

To darken a little table, talking about the growth hormone (GH) has left so many bad memories of Alex Zülle, Bjarne Riis or Tyler Hamilton. Hormone record holder of non-detection (over 25 years) is exceeded. It comprises 191 amino acids and is present in one hundred forms (isoforms) with very different properties. Two avenues are explored: isolating the active fractions or act upstream on the secretion of total hormone. Australian a laboratory succeeded in isolating the lipolytic fraction, a 15 amino acid peptide representing the C-terminus of the total GH. This peptide is found in the system of veterinary medicine and the Internet. Secretagogues peptides (GHRP-2 Hexarelin ...) are undetectable. WADA has to worry about the doping and still has good days ahead.
 
Jan 20, 2013
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Cycle Chic said:
Found it - in the video by NOS Froome states that the blood test at the end of 2010 showed he had Bilharzia. He says he has to have tablets EVERY 6 MONTHS AND ITS PROBABLY NEVER CURED. So is he telling fibs ??

scroll forward to 10minutes 30 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o
patswana said:
From my perspective (I treat people with this regularly), this makes no sense. I can post photos of my text books or suggest you read about it on either:
1. http://www.uptodate.com
2. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/treatment.html

It is nearly always cured and the ones that might take a little longer to cure are more likely in West Africa or Asia.
Good to read this - as in the video when Froome talks about this condition, I think he is bullsh*ting. Hope this helps.
 
Teddy Boom said:
He says "I probably still haven't got rid of it. It is something, every six months I have to go for checks. For the last six months since then, every six months I've been repeating the treatment. Which is just some small tablets that I take. It's supposed to kill everything that's in there. You feel a bit lousy for a few days and then I can start training again."

So... Not exactly claiming he still has it, but definitely claiming it is still a threat to him, definitely taking ongoing treatment.
So he's saying he is still having treatment for Bilharzia after 2 and a half years. So they can cure everyone else apart from Chris Froome :rolleyes:
 
Jul 15, 2013
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Worth x-posting here, Froome's Bilharzia Timeline from his own quotes.

Between 2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)
"I kept getting sick so something wasn't right. I'd gone to Kenya to see family and did the normal UCI blood passport tests. At the same time I said to the doctor, 'Can't you scan for anything that's not right in my blood?' He came back straight away and said you're riddled with bilharzia." (Jan '13)

Jul 2011 - Treatment

"I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Treatment

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

"In terms of that illness, I actually went for a check 10 days ago and found out that I did have to repeat the treatment again. It means these big pills that basically poison you and kill everything in your stomach and I took that in the last week. I am feeling much better now and hopefully I am in the clear for another six months or so." (Jan '13)
 
Bilharzia mystery

well done on the timeline. So Biltricide is another name for Praziquantel....which kills the disease with an annual single dose treatment. Woud be good to have a log of when Froome has been to Kenya over the past 2 years. Hopefully someone more qualified will also be doing all this digging.

As someone else pointed out the Bilharzia is something he can point to as the catalyst of his performance improvement. His treatment must be on a doctors records so he cant surley think he can 'fudge' this.

The Bilharzia though is perplexing because PORTE is on a par with Froome regarding performance and a lesser extent the whole Team. So Porte is also on the same as Froome....which nullifies the Bilharzia angle.
 
May 22, 2013
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King Boonen said:
People,

Please don't turn this into another Froome thread. He was discussed in context while discussing the Gas6 research. There are enough threads about Froome.
Totally agree.

Ask the researchers for info?
Maybe it would be nice to come up with some specific wuestions for the Leuven researchers on gas6.
Mainly becuase there is a lot of speculation how and if gas6 could be used for doping purposes.
 
King Boonen said:
People,

Please don't turn this into another Froome thread. He was discussed in context while discussing the Gas6 research. There are enough threads about Froome.
But surely the Gas6 hypothesis is about Froome and Team Sky and why Froome, and Porte come to that, are responding to whatever it is they are taking on a higher level.

Gas6 has ground to a halt. We know what it does, we know Frei is pointing everyone in that direction and its now a case of how to find the testing method to find if its being used alongside Epo.

The Bilharzia could be the reason Froome is responding to it better than any other of the Sky team.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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Catwhoorg said:
The reason for the confusion is that GAS6 can refer to either the gene, or the protein that is coded.
Or more specifically, GAS6 is the gene and gas6 the protein (i.e. whether GAS is in capitals or not specifies whether it is the gene or the protein).
 
Cycle Chic said:
But surely the Gas6 hypothesis is about Froome and Team Sky and why Froome, and Porte come to that, are responding to whatever it is they are taking on a higher level.

Gas6 has ground to a halt. We know what it does, we know Frei is pointing everyone in that direction and its now a case of how to find the testing method to find if its being used alongside Epo.

The Bilharzia could be the reason Froome is responding to it better than any other of the Sky team.
Gas6 as a doping agent could apply to anyone, not just Froome and none of the evidence currently available points to it helping him more (especially if you are talking about using it along with EPO.

It's ground to a halt but we don't know when it might take off again and having to filter through pages of only slightly relevant material when that happens is going to be very annoying.


The last couple of pages should have been in the Froome thread, most of it is discussing Bilharzia treatment (and it's all stuff people could have easily found with a simple google search).
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Cycle Chic said:
well done on the timeline. So Biltricide is another name for Praziquantel....which kills the disease with an annual single dose treatment.
The annual dose is only used in people living in places with lots of bilharzia e.g., on the shore of Lake Victoria. Repeated diagnostic testing is not practical there so it is far easier to just treat each year.

In someone like Froome, who will not be repeatedly exposed, it is just a single dose of 40mg per kg - that is it. This can be taken all at once or half now and half in ~4 hrs. There is NO need for annual treatment.
 
patswana said:
The annual dose is only used in people living in places with lots of bilharzia e.g., on the shore of Lake Victoria. Repeated diagnostic testing is not practical there so it is far easier to just treat each year.

In someone like Froome, who will not be repeatedly exposed, it is just a single dose of 40mg per kg - that is it. This can be taken all at once or half now and half in ~4 hrs. There is NO need for annual treatment.

Arrggghh! please take it to a Froome thread!!
 
incorrect

But it was found better than the EPO and the TB 500 combined! [size=+0][SIZE=+0]growth factor-6 GAS (Growth-arrest specific-6)[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] promotes the secretion of endogenous EPO and vascularity. [/size][size=+0]Studies have even shown in 2008 that the GAS-6 could replace the administration of EPO in anemic patients. [/size][size=+0]You can bet without risk that the substance is already used in professional sports, not just cycling. [/size][size=+0]And as always, we invoke the excuse of altitude to explain the increase in red blood cells. [/size][size=+0]Poor blood passport![/size][/SIZE]
http://www.guillaumeprebois.com/blogs/mon-blog/8322149-gas6-la-nouvelle-molecule-des-dopes

King Boonen did you read the article above ? it doesnt actually say much on Gas6 more on hormones...
 
Merckx index said:
I'll of course defer to your actual experience with the disease, but according to all the sources I have seen, it requires a single annual treatment. The disease is controlled, not eliminated. E.g., this is what it says in the link provided by Cycle Chic. I believe Froome has also been quoted as saying he's treated every six months.
Im way out of my league here and probably late to the party (this is from the other thread) but was the link you looked at the "Carter centre"?

If so that link was a bit ambiguous. It goes under the title "how to treat Bilharzia" but it is clearly aimed at people who live in areas where the disease is common and in the same section they talk about mass treatment even if only a % have the disease. So I think that page may have been aimed at helping those who live under constant risk of infection and reinfection rather than at someone like Froome who is no longer facing that risk.

And of course the Carter centre is all about helping poor local populations.

I suppose patswana confirmed that annual dosage was for retreatment but if what i posted above makes sense then perhaps the Carter foundation isn't contradicting people here as some may have thought.
 
Apr 21, 2013
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King Boonen said:
How exactly?
eg. HTC levels

Whatever blood doping method you use, it will show up as suspicious levels in your blood passport. Be it EPO, CERA, transfusions etc. If they help, then by changing your blood to your advantage but that will show up on your passport as well...

So you could argue with micro-doses for recovery and to reduce decline during a stage race but you cannot use it for substantial gain because then it would show up.
 
Setarkos said:
eg. HTC levels

Whatever blood doping method you use, it will show up as suspicious levels in your blood passport. Be it EPO, CERA, transfusions etc. If they help, then by changing your blood to your advantage but that will show up on your passport as well...

So you could argue with micro-doses for recovery and to reduce decline during a stage race but you cannot use it for substantial gain because then it would show up.
Have you bothered to read the thread or the research paper?
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Setarkos said:
GAS6 would show up in the blood passport as abnormalities. What now...?
ABP is based on a limited number of blood tests. If it was based on one test a year you could be Ricco and not get popped. Whatever you do between tests, if you can get your parameters back to where they should be in time, you'll be fine.

This is potentially a product that keeps your blood closer to baseline conditions. Even if it couldn't help you increase your hct it could be useful for manipulating the blood to meet the passport model. Is one take on it.

Edit you're saying you can't use anything that will give you substantial gain, but it's about gaining advantage under the current regime. Still worth it. Noone has had carte blanche since the 90s, it's an increasingly subtle game.

Imo
 

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