Thomas Frei retweeting about this again this morning....
Kimmage / L'Equipe - you know what you need to do..!!
Kimmage / L'Equipe - you know what you need to do..!!
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Merckx index said:I'll of course defer to your actual experience with the disease, but according to all the sources I have seen, it requires a single annual treatment. The disease is controlled, not eliminated. E.g., this is what it says in the link provided by Cycle Chic. I believe Froome has also been quoted as saying he's treated every six months.
Do you disagree? Were you able to get by on a single treatment, for all time?
It makes a difference, because if it requires an annual treatment, then the antigens that inactivate hemoglobin may be present in low levels in the body at all times, and there is the possibility of continual natural stimulation of EPO synthesis. This is purely speculative on my part, I have no evidence for it and it would involve EPO synthesis over-compensating for any depression of hemoglobin levels. But given Froome's hard to explain performances and his bout with the disease, it seems worth considering.
However, a correction. Bilharzia does not reduce red cell number, according to a link provided earlier in this thread. It just inactivates hemoglobin. IOW, the disease manifests with the same number of red cells, but carrying less hemoglobin and therefore less effective as oxygen transport. So while a normal HT might be, say, 45, and the associated Hb level 15, bilharzia might reduce Hb to 13 while not affecting HT.
As for the gas6 story, very interesting discussion, but in the absence of any reason to believe that Froome might have been using it, I haven't put much attention on it (even before KB's excellent dissection of the linked article on effects in mice). I think it's unlikely this would be used for performance enhancement. But Clinic discussion at its finest, IMO. Kudos.
Cycle Chic said:Found it - in the video by NOS Froome states that the blood test at the end of 2010 showed he had Bilharzia. He says he has to have tablets EVERY 6 MONTHS AND ITS PROBABLY NEVER CURED. So is he telling fibs ??
scroll forward to 10minutes 30 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o
Alex76 said:Thomas Frei retweeting about this again this morning....
Kimmage / L'Equipe - you know what you need to do..!!
Cycle Chic said:Found it - in the video by NOS Froome states that the blood test at the end of 2010 showed he had Bilharzia. He says he has to have tablets EVERY 6 MONTHS AND ITS PROBABLY NEVER CURED. So is he telling fibs ??
scroll forward to 10minutes 30 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o
patswana said:From my perspective (I treat people with this regularly), this makes no sense. I can post photos of my text books or suggest you read about it on either:
1. http://www.uptodate.com
2. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/treatment.html
It is nearly always cured and the ones that might take a little longer to cure are more likely in West Africa or Asia.
Teddy Boom said:He says "I probably still haven't got rid of it. It is something, every six months I have to go for checks. For the last six months since then, every six months I've been repeating the treatment. Which is just some small tablets that I take. It's supposed to kill everything that's in there. You feel a bit lousy for a few days and then I can start training again."
So... Not exactly claiming he still has it, but definitely claiming it is still a threat to him, definitely taking ongoing treatment.
^^ exactly.King Boonen said:People,
Please don't turn this into another Froome thread. He was discussed in context while discussing the Gas6 research. There are enough threads about Froome.
King Boonen said:People,
Please don't turn this into another Froome thread. He was discussed in context while discussing the Gas6 research. There are enough threads about Froome.
King Boonen said:People,
Please don't turn this into another Froome thread. He was discussed in context while discussing the Gas6 research. There are enough threads about Froome.
Catwhoorg said:The reason for the confusion is that GAS6 can refer to either the gene, or the protein that is coded.
Cycle Chic said:But surely the Gas6 hypothesis is about Froome and Team Sky and why Froome, and Porte come to that, are responding to whatever it is they are taking on a higher level.
Gas6 has ground to a halt. We know what it does, we know Frei is pointing everyone in that direction and its now a case of how to find the testing method to find if its being used alongside Epo.
The Bilharzia could be the reason Froome is responding to it better than any other of the Sky team.
Cycle Chic said:well done on the timeline. So Biltricide is another name for Praziquantel....which kills the disease with an annual single dose treatment.
patswana said:The annual dose is only used in people living in places with lots of bilharzia e.g., on the shore of Lake Victoria. Repeated diagnostic testing is not practical there so it is far easier to just treat each year.
In someone like Froome, who will not be repeatedly exposed, it is just a single dose of 40mg per kg - that is it. This can be taken all at once or half now and half in ~4 hrs. There is NO need for annual treatment.
But it was found better than the EPO and the TB 500 combined! [size=+0][SIZE=+0]growth factor-6 GAS (Growth-arrest specific-6)[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] promotes the secretion of endogenous EPO and vascularity. [/size][size=+0]Studies have even shown in 2008 that the GAS-6 could replace the administration of EPO in anemic patients. [/size][size=+0]You can bet without risk that the substance is already used in professional sports, not just cycling. [/size][size=+0]And as always, we invoke the excuse of altitude to explain the increase in red blood cells. [/size][size=+0]Poor blood passport![/size][/SIZE]
Cycle Chic said:http://www.guillaumeprebois.com/blogs/mon-blog/8322149-gas6-la-nouvelle-molecule-des-dopes
King Boonen did you read the article above ? it doesnt actually say much on Gas6 more on hormones...
Merckx index said:I'll of course defer to your actual experience with the disease, but according to all the sources I have seen, it requires a single annual treatment. The disease is controlled, not eliminated. E.g., this is what it says in the link provided by Cycle Chic. I believe Froome has also been quoted as saying he's treated every six months.
Setarkos said:GAS6 would show up in the blood passport as abnormalities. What now...?
King Boonen said:How exactly?
Setarkos said:eg. HTC levels
Whatever blood doping method you use, it will show up as suspicious levels in your blood passport. Be it EPO, CERA, transfusions etc. If they help, then by changing your blood to your advantage but that will show up on your passport as well...
So you could argue with micro-doses for recovery and to reduce decline during a stage race but you cannot use it for substantial gain because then it would show up.
Setarkos said:GAS6 would show up in the blood passport as abnormalities. What now...?